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 Dozer Blades wrote:
You have to really keep an eye on PJ - sad to say but true .

Hell yes you do! I am DAM SEXY.... Just try taking your eyes off me... you can't.....
---------------------------------

So anyway I got a few emails and a few facebook messages about this post and people think I should rebut and tell my side of the story but who the hell cares man...

Matt well done at the team game @ Adepticon, I hope we see each other again across the table.

OTHER PEOPLE STOP FORWARDING ME THIS LINK....... I LITERALLY DON'T CARE

PajamaPants wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
You have to really keep an eye on PJ - sad to say but true .

Hell yes you do! I am DAM SEXY.... Just try taking your eyes off me... you can't.....
---------------------------------

So anyway I got a few emails and a few facebook messages about this post and people think I should rebut and tell my side of the story but who the hell cares man...

Matt well done at the team game @ Adepticon, I hope we see each other again across the table.

OTHER PEOPLE STOP FORWARDING ME THIS LINK....... I LITERALLY DON'T CARE

Hey Alan!

Yeah, I tried to tell the story as unbiased as possible - obviously it was a heated game for both of us, and I think it was fair to say we were both upset at the outcome.

If you feel like I misrepresented something, let me know, I'm not trying to make you out to be the bad guy in this post (it's not like you would have known about the judge thing, after all )

NOOO!!! Now I understand why you didn't make top table. Such a bad way for it to end up. It's horribly ironic that you didn't make top 8 the time before (the thread where you won the Stompa) due to poor tournament organization. The Green Tide is being targeted by the dark chaos gods!

I totally did a double take when I saw you lose a turn. Stuff like that happens in candy land, not competitive games where you can only deal real damage on your own turn. I can't imagine a tournament giving an extra turn like that. I thought they were the place where everything was supposed to be as professional and competitive as possible, and it's just inconceivable to me that an advantage like that would exist. Especially late game on the top table where turns are really quick, you should have gotten your fair chance to win. You have my sympathies man.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
NOOO!!! Now I understand why you didn't make top table. Such a bad way for it to end up. It's horribly ironic that you didn't make top 8 the time before (the thread where you won the Stompa) due to poor tournament organization. The Green Tide is being targeted by the dark chaos gods!

I totally did a double take when I saw you lose a turn. Stuff like that happens in candy land, not competitive games where you can only deal real damage on your own turn. I can't imagine a tournament giving an extra turn like that. I thought they were the place where everything was supposed to be as professional and competitive as possible, and it's just inconceivable to me that an advantage like that would exist. Especially late game on the top table where turns are really quick, you should have gotten your fair chance to win. You have my sympathies man.

The ITC rules are actually very clear. If there are 20 minutes or less left in the round, each player is entitled to half the time to complete as much of a turn as possible. Your opponent can force you to stop when your half of the time is up. Its explicitly stated in the rules packet. Theoretically, each player should have had about 90 seconds (i.e. half of the three remaining minutes) to complete turn 5. Reese stopped the match according to his published rules.

Brother I love you to death, Orks needed a good boost and your delivering it, but complaining about not eating lunch is killing me! lol, I went 2 months on short rations when the Paki's closed the border with Afghanistan and my orks still did their jobs! :-p

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Brother I love you to death, Orks needed a good boost and your delivering it, but complaining about not eating lunch is killing me! lol, I went 2 months on short rations when the Paki's closed the border with Afghanistan and my orks still did their jobs! :-p

What can I say? I'm a big sissy haha!

PanzerLeader wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
NOOO!!! Now I understand why you didn't make top table. Such a bad way for it to end up. It's horribly ironic that you didn't make top 8 the time before (the thread where you won the Stompa) due to poor tournament organization. The Green Tide is being targeted by the dark chaos gods!

I totally did a double take when I saw you lose a turn. Stuff like that happens in candy land, not competitive games where you can only deal real damage on your own turn. I can't imagine a tournament giving an extra turn like that. I thought they were the place where everything was supposed to be as professional and competitive as possible, and it's just inconceivable to me that an advantage like that would exist. Especially late game on the top table where turns are really quick, you should have gotten your fair chance to win. You have my sympathies man.

The ITC rules are actually very clear. If there are 20 minutes or less left in the round, each player is entitled to half the time to complete as much of a turn as possible. Your opponent can force you to stop when your half of the time is up. Its explicitly stated in the rules packet. Theoretically, each player should have had about 90 seconds (i.e. half of the three remaining minutes) to complete turn 5. Reese stopped the match according to his published rules.

So his opponent got to do his full turn, and then Fxeni was left with 90 seconds to do his? It doesn't sound like his opponent took 90 seconds to do his turn 5...

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
So his opponent got to do his full turn, and then Fxeni was left with 90 seconds to do his? It doesn't sound like his opponent took 90 seconds to do his turn 5...

It was a pointless thing to mention in the first place, and only serves to make excuses for the event. Every major tournament's "published rules" officially say that the round ends immediately when time is called.

And none of them actually enforce it, because it's an absurd thing to attempt to enforce in a game where one player takes his whole turn and then the other takes their whole turn, and you can't spare a judge to stand at every single table ensuring that they're properly divying up their time of the final turn. The reason it's in the rules is so that you have something to point to when enforcement becomes necessary as part of a player or players causing an extreme disturbance.

If there was enough time to start the turn, there's enough time to end the turn. The fact that judges had already been standing at the table for nearly half an hour and let this go down the way it did is just astonishing--made moreso by the fact that it appears the delay was caused, at least in large part, by the judges themselves.

DJ3 wrote:
If there was enough time to start the turn, there's enough time to end the turn. The fact that judges had already been standing at the table for nearly half an hour and let this go down the way it did is just astonishing--made moreso by the fact that it appears the delay was caused, at least in large part, by the judges themselves.

I agree with this...especially because it was the top table.

DJ3 wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
So his opponent got to do his full turn, and then Fxeni was left with 90 seconds to do his? It doesn't sound like his opponent took 90 seconds to do his turn 5...

It was a pointless thing to mention in the first place, and only serves to make excuses for the event. Every major tournament's "published rules" officially say that the round ends immediately when time is called.

And none of them actually enforce it, because it's an absurd thing to attempt to enforce in a game where one player takes his whole turn and then the other takes their whole turn, and you can't spare a judge to stand at every single table ensuring that they're properly divying up their time of the final turn. The reason it's in the rules is so that you have something to point to when enforcement becomes necessary as part of a player or players causing an extreme disturbance.

If there was enough time to start the turn, there's enough time to end the turn. The fact that judges had already been standing at the table for nearly half an hour and let this go down the way it did is just astonishing--made moreso by the fact that it appears the delay was caused, at least in large part, by the judges themselves.

I saw this game go down and agree the judge should have made a ruling and forced the game to move on. However, the tournament rules for how to play the last turn were also clear. The judge contributed to the mess, but if Fxeni had been aware of the rules he could have halted Pajama's turn and taken the bottom of his. Shared responsibility between judges and players here.

PanzerLeader wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
So his opponent got to do his full turn, and then Fxeni was left with 90 seconds to do his? It doesn't sound like his opponent took 90 seconds to do his turn 5...

It was a pointless thing to mention in the first place, and only serves to make excuses for the event. Every major tournament's "published rules" officially say that the round ends immediately when time is called.

And none of them actually enforce it, because it's an absurd thing to attempt to enforce in a game where one player takes his whole turn and then the other takes their whole turn, and you can't spare a judge to stand at every single table ensuring that they're properly divying up their time of the final turn. The reason it's in the rules is so that you have something to point to when enforcement becomes necessary as part of a player or players causing an extreme disturbance.

If there was enough time to start the turn, there's enough time to end the turn. The fact that judges had already been standing at the table for nearly half an hour and let this go down the way it did is just astonishing--made moreso by the fact that it appears the delay was caused, at least in large part, by the judges themselves.

I saw this game go down and agree the judge should have made a ruling and forced the game to move on. However, the tournament rules for how to play the last turn were also clear. The judge contributed to the mess, but if Fxeni had been aware of the rules he could have halted Pajama's turn and taken the bottom of his. Shared responsibility between judges and players here.

Yeah, part of the blame absolutely lies on me. I should have insisted we finish on turn 4 due to lack of time, or at the very least, split the turn 5 in half. However, in my defense, I never expected it to play out like this - It never occurred to me that 5-10 extra minutes would be that big of a deal to give to the top table, but I suppose that was a bad assumption on my part.

C'est la vie!

I had a similar time issue come up that cost me winning a tournament a few years back. Once time starts getting low in a game I always try and suggest to my opponent that we split the remaining time after turn X and we each take half to get the most possible turns in. I don't think I have ever had anyone refuse that suggestion, but if I don't enforce it, they won't volunteer the end of their turn. I have to be the bad guy.

Both players should get the same amount of time. That's only fair. To say anything else is not right.

Personally i think you should have taken the result from the end of turn 4, even if the game technically ended turn 5. That would have been the fair thing to do. But yes, you really shouldn't have started another turn with 5-10 minutes to go :/ but well done for winning (IMO)

Thank you very much Fexin. I have enjoyed your battle reports a lot. Thank you for posting them.
I was wondering about game 5, in another section a poster made a comment about killpoints or units destroyed referencing your Green tide, I think. So I was wondering where the problem actually was. I still haven't seen anything related to what that was all about.
Again thank you for posting your Battle reports.

Thanks for the report fxeni
As far as I heard this wasn't the only bad ruling by the judges in his favor. During his round 2 game a judge gave him a huge bonus on his Tyranids that allowed him to make shadows of the warp effect all enemy units and not just psykers. I have no idea how bad a judge or easily pushed around a judge had to be to make that bad of a call; on Reece's behalf though it was eventually overruled after that game (still he got a huge freebie round 2) that all future games would not allow shadows of the warp to work on all enemy units. Maybe that was the same judge and after his first horrible call in pjs favor he was to timid to make any additional calls.

Matt still waiting for the Adepticon reports

Hurry it up !! <--- slave driver!

I'm trying - but finals next week make it hard to have a lot of free time!

Darkwynn wrote:
Matt still waiting for the Adepticon reports

Hurry it up !! <--- slave driver!

Pardon my slightly off-topic post, but Nick, we'll get another chance to meet at the Nova Invitationals.


Now back on topic, great stuff Matt! Too bad we didn't get to play at the LVO, but if you are going to Nova, then we may have another chance.

Las Vegas Open 2015: Game 6

Game 6! Well, I'm just off my first loss, and a somewhat frustrating game, so at this point I'm hoping to A) have a good game and B) maybe pull out making the top 8. I've no idea where I sit points-wise, and there isn't any time for me to take a break before my next game, so onto my game I go!

Justin Rockhill's Eldar!

Again, confession time. I totally forgot to take a picture of my opponent, and google didn't yield me a result this time. Sorry! I WAS MUCH BETTER AT ADEPTICON I PROMISE. (Also, I lost his name, but I'm pretty sure it was Justin.... )

Eldar, eh? Well, not shocked there. Eldar are EVERYWHERE here. His list (from memory)....

2x Farseer on Bike
4x (?) Bike Squads
Lynx
Autarch on Bike
Wraithknight

anddd....

9X FRIGGEN DUAL SCATTER LASER WARWALKERS.


Primary: Modified Scouring
Secondary: Maelstrom
Tertiary: Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker, First Blood
Deployment: Dawn of War

HOLY gak THAT IS A LOT OF LASER FIRE.

Man, talk about mixed feelings. A lynx doesn't really scare me, but those warwalkers can put out 108 shots a turn, which can utterly obliterate my boyz! Especially considering he has Guide and Prescience on his Farseer, this game could go poorly for me reaaallly quick!

We roll off. Justin takes Prescience, Guide, and Summon, and doom! I get the opportunity to go first or second, and I decide (somewhat hesitantly) to go first in an effort to catch him quick.

I deploy spread out my green tide to move up ASAP. He deploys one set of warwalkers on one end of the board, and everything else on the other end of the board.

He doesn't seize and we begin.

Early Game:

I move up ASAP and run my tide to try and get as close as possible. Fortunately for me, there are some hills to block LOS for my tide, but not enough to entirely mitigate Justin's shooting. Meanwhile, since his Scatter Lasers don't scare the AV13 on my Looted Wagons, I move my Tankbustas up and flat out them as close as possible to his Lynx and Warwalkers to threaten them. My shooting is pitiful, and my KMKs don't do much.

Justin's turn rolls around. He moves his Lynx onto the ruins in his deployment zone and fires at my VSG to take it out before starting to unload his Scatter Lasers upon my tide. While the VSG absorbs a fair amount of firepower, it isn't long until I start bleeding a SERIOUS amount of boys. However, by moving up, I force Justin to stay back and I start to gain Maelstrom Points. Justin also summons a squad of bloodletters (that was the only demon squad he had painted for LVO!)

On turn 2, my Tankbustas turn, look, and see the glorious, glorious Lynx sitting utop the ruins in front of them. The call is irresistible.

The tankbustas move up and get outta the Looted Wagons (both squads!) and run forward to try and get at the Lynx. After running, and WITH the Boarding Planks, I'm going to need a 7" charge on one squad and 8" on the other. Meanwhile, my tide continues to move up, but due to bleeding bodies in turn 1, I've lost a lot of ground. Again, my shooting is pitiful.

We go to the charge....I roll for the Tankbustas.....







Impressively enough, the explosion only kills 2-3 Tankbustas because of the cover save from the ruins.

Justin, however, is now out for blood. On his turn, he moves up his Bloodletters, his Wraithknight, and one squad of Warwalkers in an attempt to charge my tide. He also moves up his farseer + Autarch + Bike squad and decides to charge my Tankbustas who smell of freshly blown up Lynx. His other Warwalker squad obliterates the Tankbustas out in the open, and only 2-3 guys live because of lack of LOS.

Justin then rolls his charges for the 3 units into my tide (the Wraithknight, the Warwalkers, and the Bloodletters....)





Now my tide can't get shot, but is also going to be slow about killing things too because it is so spread out. The board looks like this.



Mid-Game: At this point, I'm massively leading Justin on Maelstrom points, but I'm also losing boys quickly. Combined between the shooting and the assaults, I've bled a LOT of Boyz, and even though I'm in combat where I want to be, I'm still having trouble killing Justin's stuff.

Meanwhile, back in my deployment zone, I'm just kind of hunkering down. My artillery and gretchin are basically holding the fort, and my KMKs aren't doing much either.



At this point in the game, it basically becomes a slugfest. Every time I kill something (the Wraithknight, for example), Justin throws something else into the grinder (His Autarch and Farseer bike squad, for example). However, his 5++ invuls on his Warwalkers are on FIRE and I can't kill the damn things with str 3 boyz! In addition, he's got doom on me, which is quite painful for my Boyz! I'm slowly losing this battle!

I eventually proceed to kill one squad of Warwalkers, only for Justin to charge in another squad! THEN, my tankbustas charge THOSE Warwalkers, only to wipe them out!

An eye for an eye - Justin kills some boyz, I kill a unit. Justin charges in another unit and kills some more boyz, and I kill another unit!

By the time we come down to turn 5, my tide is whittled down to very little. Two squads of Warwalkers are dead, along with his Farseers, Autarch, a bike squad, but my tide is down to around <10 guys, and the bloodletters are basically unhurt. Meanwhile, my backfield is basically untouched.

I decide to go for the denial here. My remaining Gunwagons flat out onto objectives, and my grots spread out to hold my own objective in my own deployment zone. My deffkopta also goes and flats out into his deployment zone for linebreaker.

For the entire game, my KMKs have been entirely...meh. They have a chance to make up for that here, because there are a ball of 3 bikers sitting next to a midfield objective just ready to get blown sky high!

The Artillery fires....





Justin, on his turn, just zips his bikes and remaining Warwalkers onto various objectives, hoping the game will end now.

At the bottom of the turn, we go to combat. Because of the way the combat stretched out, my tide actually ends up LOSING the battle, and because I'm below 10 guys, I'm now no longer effectively fearless. Uh oh!





We then roll to see if the game ends....



.

After Game Thoughts:

Awesome batrep! Even though it sucks to not make top 8, you still did awesome with Orks!

Hey Matt, how would a warboss on bike get a 2+ rerollable jink save?

BOOM BABY !!!

yermom wrote:
Hey Matt, how would a warboss on bike get a 2+ rerollable jink save?

Well, it requires a bit of luck or serendipity....

If I can go first on night fight, and turbo boost the boss in the tide, his 3+ cover becomes a 2+ cover. Since he has a lucky stikk to reroll failed saves, it's effectively a 2+ reroll.

The other possibility is with mysterious objectives. If any member of my tide can be in top of the +1 cover objective, that can also modify my cover into a 2+ rerollable.

It's certainly not a guarantee, but it happens far more often then you might think otherwise.

I just wanted to clarify something regarding your mob rule roll.
The roll for having a character attached was 2-3. A roll of 1 is if you are in combat you auto pass. I just wanted to know if there was something else I was missing?

 Fxeni wrote:

yermom wrote:
Hey Matt, how would a warboss on bike get a 2+ rerollable jink save?

Well, it requires a bit of luck or serendipity....

If I can go first on night fight, and turbo boost the boss in the tide, his 3+ cover becomes a 2+ cover. Since he has a lucky stikk to reroll failed saves, it's effectively a 2+ reroll.

The other possibility is with mysterious objectives. If any member of my tide can be in top of the +1 cover objective, that can also modify my cover into a 2+ rerollable.

It's certainly not a guarantee, but it happens far more often then you might think otherwise.

Unless I am missing something here, turbo boost does not confer a +1 to cover, you still only have a 3+. I also wouldn't really count on a good cover save to tank a ton-o-wounds. Tau and other races have ignore cover here and there. Still works on most things tho.. but that T4 biker boss... :(

The Forge World Warboss biker confers a 2++ jink save for Warbikes when they TB .

Plain old or warbikes add +1 to the cover saves when they turbo boost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also is this the green tide formation from the waagh ghazghkull supplement? If so the warboss can't take a warbike unless he's from a separate detachment and attaches to it.

cormadepanda wrote:

 Fxeni wrote:

yermom wrote:
Hey Matt, how would a warboss on bike get a 2+ rerollable jink save?

Well, it requires a bit of luck or serendipity....

If I can go first on night fight, and turbo boost the boss in the tide, his 3+ cover becomes a 2+ cover. Since he has a lucky stikk to reroll failed saves, it's effectively a 2+ reroll.

The other possibility is with mysterious objectives. If any member of my tide can be in top of the +1 cover objective, that can also modify my cover into a 2+ rerollable.

It's certainly not a guarantee, but it happens far more often then you might think otherwise.

Unless I am missing something here, turbo boost does not confer a +1 to cover, you still only have a 3+. I also wouldn't really count on a good cover save to tank a ton-o-wounds. Tau and other races have ignore cover here and there. Still works on most things tho.. but that T4 biker boss... :(

Ork Bikers get a 3+ when they turbo boost - it's a special rule for them.

Dozer Blades wrote:The Forge World Warboss biker confers a 2++ jink save for Warbikes when they TB .

Also true, although that investment is a bit higher!

mhalko1 wrote:I just wanted to clarify something regarding your mob rule roll.
The roll for having a character attached was 2-3. A roll of 1 is if you are in combat you auto pass. I just wanted to know if there was something else I was missing?

The green tide is a ghazgkull detachment, meaning it adds 2 to the roll for mob rule. As such, a 1 is actually a 3 - the character one.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
Plain old or warbikes add +1 to the cover saves when they turbo boost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also is this the green tide formation from the waagh ghazghkull supplement? If so the warboss can't take a warbike unless he's from a separate detachment and attaches to it.

This is the other warboss (the lucky stikk warboss) who takes the bike, not the green tide warboss.

Awesome game! You're number one to us! Feth that incompetent judges.