Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Just wondering. It could explain a lot.

From anyone else I might take that seriously, not from you Andy though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

He not saying the emperor was malcador. He was saying that malcador was the real brains of the operation and the emperor (a separate person) was a showy frontman selling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of interest Delvarus how old are u?

I know what he's saying.

This is one of the more amusing quotes of this overlong thread. Everything you state after that sentence shows you don't really know what he's saying at all. It's quite illuminating, in fact, as a demonstration of the way you tend to debate things. BTW, I'm pretty sure nobody is saying Malcador was the brains behind the operation but it's still an amusing theory.

I did know what he was saying, I was trying to debunk that with logic but then I just found out that I was wrong in what I was thinking, I was left wanting in this example, logic dun failed me, so what. Look back on your comments on this thread. I wouldn't bring up my debating skills. All your debating tactics are pretty poor, I said the Emperor got powers on Molech, everyone contradicts me, 9 pages of the thread later, everyone agrees with me.

I think you may be confused. I don't think anyone has debated whether the Emperor got powers on Molech. We're all in agreement about that. The debate is about the nature of those powers, specifically as they relate to what Horus got. If you're not even sure what the discussion is about it's no wonder you're having trouble understanding people's arguments.

I've never said exactly what the Emperor got, just that he got powers, so I don't know were you get that from. People were debating, saying we don't know what I he got and through the thread I've given countless evidence, proving that he got 'powers' and then you all agreed, I was giving a dog a bone, by just saying you all agree with me, you only agree with me now. Re-read the thread, you'll see.

I mean this is your quote, arguing when I said he got powers:

"We know Sureka was there when the Emperor first went to Molech and we know she was there when he came out of the Chaos gate. She was there when Horus arrived too. We know the Emperor got something while inside the Warp but the exact nature of what he achieved is completely unknown. Only the Emperor can say for sure. It seems likely it had something to do with the creation of the Primarchs. We also know Horus later enters the same Warp gate and Sureka believes he has struck the same deal with the Chaos gods. Horus also believes this to be the case, but claims he earned by right the power that the Emperor stole through deception and lies. I have no doubt that Sureka and Horus are both sincere in their beliefs but the point is neither of them know for sure what the Emperor received from the Chaos gods. Given the nature of the Chaos gods it seems much more likely any bargain they make is going to be quite nebulous in nature. Something along the lines of giving the Emperor/Horus the "power to defeat their enemies" rather than just handing over a genetic blueprint for the Primarchs or a foolproof battleplan for the siege of Terra.

So we don't really know what either the Emperor or Horus got, so we can't say for sure whether they got the same thing. To me it seems likely they didn't as their goals and methods were very different, beyond a very general desire to conquer the galaxy. It also seems likely that Horus was deluded. That entire passage about how he acquired his power, that you quoted yourself, is textbook wish fulfilment. Horus believes the Emperor stole his power from the gods while he earned his honourably. Nobody except the Chaos gods knows for sure. Anyone else involved doesn't have the full picture, including Sureka. That leaves the whole thing open for interpretation."

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Just wondering. It could explain a lot.

From anyone else I might take that seriously, not from you Andy though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've often wondered if the REAL emperor is Malchador and the guy we THINK is the Emperor is just a "super primarch" front man.

I don't think so, it took the Emperor an exteme amount of concentration to hold chaos back from the webway, he barely was able to speak to anyone, only Ra and Corax briefly, he couldn't even talk to Malcador but we'll leave him out. So I don't think the Emperor could hold back chaos, power and direct the astronomicum and fight Horus all at the same time.

you're missing the point, I'm not saying the emperor isn't as powerful as he seems to be, I'm saying he's a front man and that the brains of the operation is Malchador.

No, what I mean is that only malcador could have powered and guided the astronomicum and held chaos back from the webway while the Emperor fought Horus, I doubt the Emperor could have done all of that himself and fight Horus, because he'd have to by himself if he was also Malcador.

He not saying the emperor was malcador. He was saying that malcador was the real brains of the operation and the emperor (a separate person) was a showy frontman selling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of interest Delvarus how old are u?

I know what he's saying.

This is one of the more amusing quotes of this overlong thread. Everything you state after that sentence shows you don't really know what he's saying at all. It's quite illuminating, in fact, as a demonstration of the way you tend to debate things. BTW, I'm pretty sure nobody is saying Malcador was the brains behind the operation but it's still an amusing theory.

I did know what he was saying, I was trying to debunk that with logic but then I just found out that I was wrong in what I was thinking, I was left wanting in this example, logic dun failed me, so what. Look back on your comments on this thread. I wouldn't bring up my debating skills. All your debating tactics are pretty poor, I said the Emperor got powers on Molech, everyone contradicts me, 9 pages of the thread later, everyone agrees with me.

I think you may be confused. I don't think anyone has debated whether the Emperor got powers on Molech. We're all in agreement about that. The debate is about the nature of those powers, specifically as they relate to what Horus got. If you're not even sure what the discussion is about it's no wonder you're having trouble understanding people's arguments.

I've never said exactly what the Emperor got, just that he got powers, so I don't know were you get that from. People were debating, saying we don't know what I he got and through the thread I've given countless evidence, proving that he got 'powers' and then you all agreed, I was giving a dog a bone, by just saying you all agree with me, you only agree with me now. Re-read the thread, you'll see.

I mean this is your quote, arguing when I said he got powers:

"We know Sureka was there when the Emperor first went to Molech and we know she was there when he came out of the Chaos gate. She was there when Horus arrived too. We know the Emperor got something while inside the Warp but the exact nature of what he achieved is completely unknown. Only the Emperor can say for sure. It seems likely it had something to do with the creation of the Primarchs. We also know Horus later enters the same Warp gate and Sureka believes he has struck the same deal with the Chaos gods. Horus also believes this to be the case, but claims he earned by right the power that the Emperor stole through deception and lies. I have no doubt that Sureka and Horus are both sincere in their beliefs but the point is neither of them know for sure what the Emperor received from the Chaos gods. Given the nature of the Chaos gods it seems much more likely any bargain they make is going to be quite nebulous in nature. Something along the lines of giving the Emperor/Horus the "power to defeat their enemies" rather than just handing over a genetic blueprint for the Primarchs or a foolproof battleplan for the siege of Terra.

So we don't really know what either the Emperor or Horus got, so we can't say for sure whether they got the same thing. To me it seems likely they didn't as their goals and methods were very different, beyond a very general desire to conquer the galaxy. It also seems likely that Horus was deluded. That entire passage about how he acquired his power, that you quoted yourself, is textbook wish fulfilment. Horus believes the Emperor stole his power from the gods while he earned his honourably. Nobody except the Chaos gods knows for sure. Anyone else involved doesn't have the full picture, including Sureka. That leaves the whole thing open for interpretation."

Nothing in my quote says the Emperor didn't get power after entering the gate at Molech. That entire quote is about the nature of the power compared to what Horus gained. The debate is about the nature of the powers. You seem incapable of understanding that. You also seem incapable of following the arguments other people make, as shown by you quoting the passage above, which makes debating with you pretty pointless. I know it's easier to debate with people when you ignore what they say and argue what you think they've said but it makes the whole process kind of pointless. It explains the frustrations that seem to show up in pretty much every thread you're involved in on this forum though.

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

Andykp wrote:
I like the idea that he dealt with eldar gods or such like. I think he more probably took something that helped make the primarchs. As for deals, who knows, I’m sure if he did make a deal he never intended to keep. It. He’s not exactlY trustworthy.

 Formosa wrote:
I’m wondering, given that we don’t know for certain what the emperor got from the gods (bargain, power, primarch goo), what do you guys think he did get?

Also I was wondering what malcador means when he said “he wasn’t the emperor until he met me”

 Formosa wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I like the idea that he dealt with eldar gods or such like. I think he more probably took something that helped make the primarchs. As for deals, who knows, I’m sure if he did make a deal he never intended to keep. It. He’s not exactlY trustworthy.

I like the idea of the eldar thing too, I could imagine the emp working his way to isha (goddess of life IIRC), getting the info for the primarchs project or having her help give them life, that’s pure bonkers conjecture though with nothing to back it up to be fair.

Andykp wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I like the idea that he dealt with eldar gods or such like. I think he more probably took something that helped make the primarchs. As for deals, who knows, I’m sure if he did make a deal he never intended to keep. It. He’s not exactlY trustworthy.

I like the idea of the eldar thing too, I could imagine the emp working his way to isha (goddess of life IIRC), getting the info for the primarchs project or having her help give them life, that’s pure bonkers conjecture though with nothing to back it up to be fair.

That might be why I like it???? Makes sense though. It would really pee off the chaos gods too. Don’t really know much about malcador. He to me is a relatively new addition. (It’s my age that’s the problem there)

Andykp wrote:
I still regard the dark eldar as upstarts. Dont even ask me about tau? What I know of him sounds good. Ties into quite a with grey knights and what have you. There was always going to be people around the emperor helping out. He does sound to have been in a position at least to nudge the emperor in the right direction if not guide him altogether. I think of him a bit like Lenin’s Trotsky. But that gets confusing when really the emperor is more like Stalin than Lenin.

 Formosa wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I like the idea that he dealt with eldar gods or such like. I think he more probably took something that helped make the primarchs. As for deals, who knows, I’m sure if he did make a deal he never intended to keep. It. He’s not exactlY trustworthy.

I like the idea of the eldar thing too, I could imagine the emp working his way to isha (goddess of life IIRC), getting the info for the primarchs project or having her help give them life, that’s pure bonkers conjecture though with nothing to back it up to be fair.

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

Lol, you all realise that you are arguing about nothing and then you are saying I'm moaning, nope just pointing out facts as per usual. I mean you's can't admit anything that you've said is wrong, you have the luxury of saying stuff like you're just moaning and then everyone joins in and goes 'yeah he's just moaning, we aren't wrong' lol Its so hilarious. That's why I like to quote things you all say and I have the luxury of doing that, because I haven't said anything I haven't since the beginning, that you might actually one day say, yeah I was wrong there lol I have a dream lol I'm not wrong, cause subtext or something, you's all forget that you were actually wrong and then end up agreeing 100% with what I've said BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As for my age, you can find it on this site, however troll 101 you never give anyone information on yourself as it can be used against you, but it would be funny if I was 12 lol A mere 12 year old making you arguing a point, forgetting that you are wrong because it's too hard to bare and then end up completely agreeing with me lol.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I like the idea that he dealt with eldar gods or such like. I think he more probably took something that helped make the primarchs. As for deals, who knows, I’m sure if he did make a deal he never intended to keep. It. He’s not exactlY trustworthy.

I like the idea of the eldar thing too, I could imagine the emp working his way to isha (goddess of life IIRC), getting the info for the primarchs project or having her help give them life, that’s pure bonkers conjecture though with nothing to back it up to be fair.

That's a really, really cool take on it- it might even fulfill the words of Chaos saying the emperor "stole" something. Goodness knows sneaking intot he garden of nurgle to get the knowledge of life crafting/ warp binding/ whatever knowledge it would actually be called to make warp infused warlords to cut off the chaos gods from humanity would lead to them being angry.

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

Lol, you all realise that you are arguing about nothing and then you are saying I'm moaning, nope just pointing out facts as per usual. I mean you's can't admit anything that you've said is wrong, you have the luxury of saying stuff like you're just moaning and then everyone joins in and goes 'yeah he's just moaning, we aren't wrong' lol Its so hilarious. That's why I like to quote things you all say and I have the luxury of doing that, because I haven't said anything I haven't since the beginning, that you might actually one day say, yeah I was wrong there lol I have a dream lol I'm not wrong, cause subtext or something, you's all forget that you were actually wrong and then end up agreeing 100% with what I've said BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As for my age, you can find it on this site, however troll 101 you never give anyone information on yourself as it can be used against you, but it would be funny if I was 12 lol A mere 12 year old making you arguing a point, forgetting that you are wrong because it's too hard to bare and then end up completely agreeing with me lol.

Sigh... just go away dude, we had got back on track and you come back and throw yet another spanner in the works




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carlovonsexron wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I like the idea that he dealt with eldar gods or such like. I think he more probably took something that helped make the primarchs. As for deals, who knows, I’m sure if he did make a deal he never intended to keep. It. He’s not exactlY trustworthy.

I like the idea of the eldar thing too, I could imagine the emp working his way to isha (goddess of life IIRC), getting the info for the primarchs project or having her help give them life, that’s pure bonkers conjecture though with nothing to back it up to be fair.

That's a really, really cool take on it- it might even fulfill the words of Chaos saying the emperor "stole" something. Goodness knows sneaking intot he garden of nurgle to get the knowledge of life crafting/ warp binding/ whatever knowledge it would actually be called to make warp infused warlords to cut off the chaos gods from humanity would lead to them being angry.

You know what, it would be interesting to read about the emperors interaction with the eldar and eldar gods, just read a comment from beast arises where Eldrad alludes to once having been the emperors friend... well ally at the very least.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

Lol, you all realise that you are arguing about nothing and then you are saying I'm moaning, nope just pointing out facts as per usual. I mean you's can't admit anything that you've said is wrong, you have the luxury of saying stuff like you're just moaning and then everyone joins in and goes 'yeah he's just moaning, we aren't wrong' lol Its so hilarious. That's why I like to quote things you all say and I have the luxury of doing that, because I haven't said anything I haven't since the beginning, that you might actually one day say, yeah I was wrong there lol I have a dream lol I'm not wrong, cause subtext or something, you's all forget that you were actually wrong and then end up agreeing 100% with what I've said BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As for my age, you can find it on this site, however troll 101 you never give anyone information on yourself as it can be used against you, but it would be funny if I was 12 lol A mere 12 year old making you arguing a point, forgetting that you are wrong because it's too hard to bare and then end up completely agreeing with me lol.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

Lol, you all realise that you are arguing about nothing and then you are saying I'm moaning, nope just pointing out facts as per usual. I mean you's can't admit anything that you've said is wrong, you have the luxury of saying stuff like you're just moaning and then everyone joins in and goes 'yeah he's just moaning, we aren't wrong' lol Its so hilarious. That's why I like to quote things you all say and I have the luxury of doing that, because I haven't said anything I haven't since the beginning, that you might actually one day say, yeah I was wrong there lol I have a dream lol I'm not wrong, cause subtext or something, you's all forget that you were actually wrong and then end up agreeing 100% with what I've said BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As for my age, you can find it on this site, however troll 101 you never give anyone information on yourself as it can be used against you, but it would be funny if I was 12 lol A mere 12 year old making you arguing a point, forgetting that you are wrong because it's too hard to bare and then end up completely agreeing with me lol.

Damn you're really bothered about this aren't you? Take a break.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

Lol, you all realise that you are arguing about nothing and then you are saying I'm moaning, nope just pointing out facts as per usual. I mean you's can't admit anything that you've said is wrong, you have the luxury of saying stuff like you're just moaning and then everyone joins in and goes 'yeah he's just moaning, we aren't wrong' lol Its so hilarious. That's why I like to quote things you all say and I have the luxury of doing that, because I haven't said anything I haven't since the beginning, that you might actually one day say, yeah I was wrong there lol I have a dream lol I'm not wrong, cause subtext or something, you's all forget that you were actually wrong and then end up agreeing 100% with what I've said BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As for my age, you can find it on this site, however troll 101 you never give anyone information on yourself as it can be used against you, but it would be funny if I was 12 lol A mere 12 year old making you arguing a point, forgetting that you are wrong because it's too hard to bare and then end up completely agreeing with me lol.

Damn you're really bothered about this aren't you? Take a break.

Yeah you all come to the conclusion that you agree with me, then you move on like you's are taking the high road. If someone says I'm whining etc. I'll be commenting. I don't 'try' to be right, I'll admit I'm wrong which none of you accept one person will do. I mean as for this thread I have proved you all wrong, you argue with me, I show you the evidence and then you all agree with me, you literally can't even argue with me now after that, just because there is a lot of you doesn't magically mean you're right but you lot can't ever face being wrong that you just have this echo chamber where if enough of you agree with each other you don't have to admit you were wrong. You would silence me if you's just admitted it and stopped with the, just ignore him now that he's proven us wrong, he's just an donkey-cave, he doesn't get subtext, he's 12 and doesn't know what he's talking about etc. nonsense.

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Christ. More bloody whining over who said what and when they said it to prove that they “won”.

Getting a bit boring. Especially with you two quoting entire posts which in of themselves contain quotes of whole posts. It’s very difficult to understand and even take in (especially in a mobile device).

Lol, you all realise that you are arguing about nothing and then you are saying I'm moaning, nope just pointing out facts as per usual. I mean you's can't admit anything that you've said is wrong, you have the luxury of saying stuff like you're just moaning and then everyone joins in and goes 'yeah he's just moaning, we aren't wrong' lol Its so hilarious. That's why I like to quote things you all say and I have the luxury of doing that, because I haven't said anything I haven't since the beginning, that you might actually one day say, yeah I was wrong there lol I have a dream lol I'm not wrong, cause subtext or something, you's all forget that you were actually wrong and then end up agreeing 100% with what I've said BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As for my age, you can find it on this site, however troll 101 you never give anyone information on yourself as it can be used against you, but it would be funny if I was 12 lol A mere 12 year old making you arguing a point, forgetting that you are wrong because it's too hard to bare and then end up completely agreeing with me lol.

Damn you're really bothered about this aren't you? Take a break.

Yeah you all come to the conclusion that you agree with me, then you move on like you's are taking the high road. If someone says I'm whining etc. I'll be commenting. I don't 'try' to be right, I'll admit I'm wrong which none of you accept one person will do. I mean as for this thread I have proved you all wrong, you argue with me, I show you the evidence and then you all agree with me, you literally can't even argue with me now after that, just because there is a lot of you doesn't magically mean you're right but you lot can't ever face being wrong that you just have this echo chamber where if enough of you agree with each other you don't have to admit you were wrong. You would silence me if you's just admitted it and stopped with the, just ignore him now that he's proven us wrong, he's just an donkey-cave, he doesn't get subtext, he's 12 and doesn't know what he's talking about etc. nonsense.

No one agrees with you, no one has agreed with since the start, we have just moved on to ignore you, if you want to join in go ahead, feel free, if you carry on with this nonsense then I’m gonna assume your just trolling and will hit the report button.

 Formosa wrote:
So delusional, you proved nothing, have yet to prove your original statement and have consistently insulted people on this thread, but have it your way Delvarus, you refused to stay on topic and have continued with your nonsense.

Reporting.

Alcibiades wrote:
Why didn't Chaos just scatter the Primarchs into deep space?

Mellow wrote:
I imagine that’s quite simple.

Chaos gets more power from sentient life feeding emotion to them than the immediate death of the Primarchs. Also twisting Primarchs to their cause is also far more useful in the long run.

Slipspace wrote:

Mellow wrote:
I imagine that’s quite simple.

Chaos gets more power from sentient life feeding emotion to them than the immediate death of the Primarchs. Also twisting Primarchs to their cause is also far more useful in the long run.

Yes, it seems likely part of Chaos's plan was to corrupt the Primarchs rather than kill them. We don't really know enough about their creation to say for sure how successful they were. Were Sanguinius's wings a Chaos mutation, or part of the Emperor's design, for example? If that was the Chaos God's plan you'd effectively have the "Great Crusade" being a massive daemonic incursion led by the Primarchs.