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Sort of a follow-up to my previous post:

What detachments and tactics are people with warrior-heavy armies using? Does the Awakened Dynasty make them killy enough to pull their weight? As much as I like the idea of the hyperphase crypt, I don't want to spend every game bouncing off my opponents.

Do you have Illuminor Szeras?
He adds AP to Battleline units, which would help against most enemies.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Sort of a follow-up to my previous post:

What detachments and tactics are people with warrior-heavy armies using? Does the Awakened Dynasty make them killy enough to pull their weight? As much as I like the idea of the hyperphase crypt, I don't want to spend every game bouncing off my opponents.

Awakened Dynasty is probably still the best detachment for Warriors if you're playing at 1,000 points like your last list, as all the other detachments need more specific units choices to get the buffs.

One of the best things you could do with Warriors is push them forward as fast as you can, but back them up with some of our efficient cheap guns (Heavy Destroyers, Doomstalkers) - the Warriors need dealing with but are there to distract from the guns that are doing the real heavy lifting. Something like this:

Jump forward with these:
Overlord (orb and veil of darkness)
Technomancer (nether realm casket)
20 Warriors (tank damage 2+ shots here)
2 Cryptothralls (tank damage 1 shots here)

Support with these:
3 Gauss destructor Heavy Destroyers
1 Doomstalker

The rest of the army could then be split between objective grabbers and maybe a melee unit.

20 warriors will get bogged down by anything cheap that can charge it if they get pushed forward...

Warriors are for clogging the field more than damage or survival.

Plasmancer for help with damage
Illuminor as an additional assistance for damage
Chronomancer for movement and defense

 Da-Rock wrote:
Warriors are for clogging the field more than damage or survival.

Plasmancer for help with damage
Illuminor as an additional assistance for damage
Chronomancer for movement and defense

Yep, make them tough with any of the defensive buffs and throw them forward as fast as you can. Move blocking units need to be dealt with and this buys you time for your better units to do their thing.

So the no-nerf dataslate was a bit of a surprise. Going over the new rules commentary though, I think Necrons also have a hidden new mediocre ability that might be fun to try out in less serious games - aircraft that don't completely suck.

The Nightscythe can come in from turn 1 - with the new commentary it can also drop off passengers on the turn it arrives, making it a slightly worse drop pod (it is coming from strategic reserves not deep strike). It can also pick stuff up in the fight phase, either to pick up the unit that came out earlier, or to slingshot a unit like Skorpechs (climb in the back turn 1, jump out the front before moving the 'scythe in turn 2).

The Doomscythe also has some play - specifically in the Hypercrypt detachment. You can overcome most of the terrible aircraft movement rules by using the detachment redeploy ability on it whenever needed (Nightscythe can also use this move I guess if you are continually dropping/picking up the same unit).

Both flyers are still way overcosted - but having some tricks is better than letting them gather dust I guess?

 Insularum wrote:
So the no-nerf dataslate was a bit of a surprise. Going over the new rules commentary though, I think Necrons also have a hidden new mediocre ability that might be fun to try out in less serious games - aircraft that don't completely suck.

The Nightscythe can come in from turn 1 - with the new commentary it can also drop off passengers on the turn it arrives, making it a slightly worse drop pod (it is coming from strategic reserves not deep strike). It can also pick stuff up in the fight phase, either to pick up the unit that came out earlier, or to slingshot a unit like Skorpechs (climb in the back turn 1, jump out the front before moving the 'scythe in turn 2).

The Doomscythe also has some play - specifically in the Hypercrypt detachment. You can overcome most of the terrible aircraft movement rules by using the detachment redeploy ability on it whenever needed (Nightscythe can also use this move I guess if you are continually dropping/picking up the same unit).

Both flyers are still way overcosted - but having some tricks is better than letting them gather dust I guess?

So following up on this, I'm having trouble understanding the first turn arrival - the commentary says "Abilities that allow units to be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase using the Strategic Reserves rules treat the current battle round number as being one higher than it actually is in the first battle round only, unless explicitly stated otherwise." (top of page 2). Then later the Rapid Ingress stratagem reads: "You cannot use this Stratagem to enable a unit to arrive on the battlefield during a battle round it would not normally be ble to do so in." (pg 20) So under what circumstances is a player allowed to bring in their reserves on Turn 1?

You do not need to use rapid ingress, the Nightscythe datasheet has two abilities - invasion beams for picking up a unit in the fight phase, and quantum invader which explicitly allows it to arrive in turn 1 like a drop pod (but as the Nightscythe cannot deep strike it would be following the rules commentary advice of coming in as is it were a turn later for strategic reserves).

Unlike the drop pod it did not have the ability to disembark units on arrival until the rules commentary changed that.

Oh gotcha - cool, thanks. Don't have the Codex yet so I'm the dummy.

So, I'm a Dakka Dakka virgin and hopefully this message is in the right place. but I think I know the answer to this question but need some clarification.
Can i start a game with nothing on the board?

My mates bringing a dirty astra militarum armoured column with 3 bane blades and rogal dorn battle tanks so I figured I'd play just as dirty and I'm bringing 6 C'tan. 3 trancendant and 1 each of the others plus a doomsday ark, doomstalker and a chronomancer. Bang on 2000 points.
My point being- with putting the chronomancer and two doom shooters in strategic reserve, the 3 trancendant in deepstrike and the last 3 C'tan characters being put into strategic reserve using the Decievers "Grand Illusion ability" means i could have nothing on the board for the start of turn one. Is this legal or do i need a certain percentage of my force on the table at the start of turn one?
Thank you.
I have posted this question elsewhere in the hope i can get a reply before saturday 13th april

Overloard Ste wrote:
So, I'm a Dakka Dakka virgin and hopefully this message is in the right place. but I think I know the answer to this question but need some clarification.
Can i start a game with nothing on the board?

My mates bringing a dirty astra militarum armoured column with 3 bane blades and rogal dorn battle tanks so I figured I'd play just as dirty and I'm bringing 6 C'tan. 3 trancendant and 1 each of the others plus a doomsday ark, doomstalker and a chronomancer. Bang on 2000 points.
My point being- with putting the chronomancer and two doom shooters in strategic reserve, the 3 trancendant in deepstrike and the last 3 C'tan characters being put into strategic reserve using the Decievers "Grand Illusion ability" means i could have nothing on the board for the start of turn one. Is this legal or do i need a certain percentage of my force on the table at the start of turn one?
Thank you.
I have posted this question elsewhere in the hope i can get a reply before saturday 13th april

So long as you go through the motions of deploying the 3 shards then declaring their redeployment at the appropriate time then yeah I guess.

Overloard Ste wrote:
So, I'm a Dakka Dakka virgin and hopefully this message is in the right place. but I think I know the answer to this question but need some clarification.
Can i start a game with nothing on the board?

My mates bringing a dirty astra militarum armoured column with 3 bane blades and rogal dorn battle tanks so I figured I'd play just as dirty and I'm bringing 6 C'tan. 3 trancendant and 1 each of the others plus a doomsday ark, doomstalker and a chronomancer. Bang on 2000 points.
My point being- with putting the chronomancer and two doom shooters in strategic reserve, the 3 trancendant in deepstrike and the last 3 C'tan characters being put into strategic reserve using the Decievers "Grand Illusion ability" means i could have nothing on the board for the start of turn one. Is this legal or do i need a certain percentage of my force on the table at the start of turn one?
Thank you.
I have posted this question elsewhere in the hope i can get a reply before saturday 13th april

So this comes down to Reserves limits. You can have up to 50% (1000pts) of your total army in Reserves at the start of the game. Of that 50% up to 25% (500pts) can be put into Strategic Reserves. For your Strategic Reserves you're ok; Chronomancer, Doomsday Ark and Doomstalker are 385 total. You're 3 Transendents are 275 each, totaling 825 for them alone. You're overall points you want to put into Reserves is 1210.

You are over by 210 points.

Not too sure how good it would be against 3 baneblades. You are both bringing large models so board control is going to be a problem for you to bring in units from reserves. He wont have the coverage to keep you totally off the table but he can put you at a big disadvantage for scoring.

How much terrain are you using in your games? I like to take a Shadowsword from time to time and have a lot of trouble lining up a good shot. Maybe discussing with you opponent for a useful/edition specific battlefield layout is more effective than trying to counter cheese with more cheese.
Also, are you using the tactical or fixed objectives? I can't see how this superheavy list can compete in any way on secondaries (and primaries, depending on the mission).

Some thoughts on the new points; most of the nerfs seem sensible, and I don't think anything critical has been hurt so much that it changes the factions outlook too drastically.

Crypteks - I don't think the changes make any material difference. 3 out of the 4 generic Crypteks nerfed, but the premium options still feel worth it compared to the Psychomancer.

C'tan - You can still take as many as you want in a 2k list. 3 out of the 4 C'tan nerfed, the cheap Deceiver is looking good though (and the nerfed ones are still very good value).

Wraith spam - This isn't going away with the only nerf being to the Technomancer (a bit weird as he is starting to feel priced out of weaker units like Warriors). I think the discounts to both Skorpekhs and their Lord though might make people consider swapping out one unit of Wraiths for Destroyers - one thing I'll be trying out is having a maxed out Wraith unit for moving up the centre and Skorpekhs in reserve to safely arrive on a flank.

Immortal spam - Still better than Warriors. Some competitive lists were running lots of small units with Plasmancers for the on demand mortal wounds, despite the double nerf to the squad and character that still feels strong.

Other squads - Deathmarks and Flayed ones are now super cheap, and both have deployment shenanigans. Triarch Praetorians continue to be ignored and Cryptothralls are still paying for their part in the Index era power lists, both feel substantially overcosted. Still plenty of cheap units for utility and scoring options.

Detachments - Most of the nerfed units seem to be focused on Hypercrypt power lists, so it'll be interesting to see if Canoptek Court or Awakened Dynasty start to overtake Hypercrypt.

Increasing the cost of the monolith seemed unnecessary.

Warriors aren't going to be worth spit until GW realizes you can't fix everything with points. Warriors will either be over-priced or under-priced if they keep fiddling with their cost.

Even with their reduced cost, did anyone actually think deathmarks are any good? Not enough range for their limited shots; not enough shots for their limited range. I miss their old "hunters from hyperspace" ability. They're so watered down now.

Sad that so many of the models that were released for indomitus are now collecting dust. Skorpekhs, ophydians, the reanimator....just footnotes now because of poor rules.

Honestly, I'm pretty tired of GW being deaf to their customer base. The way they "balance" their games is the laziest beta testing possible. They use this format so they don't have to write rules well the first time. Rant over.

punisher357 wrote:

Even with their reduced cost, did anyone actually think deathmarks are any good? Not enough range for their limited shots; not enough shots for their limited range. I miss their old "hunters from hyperspace" ability. They're so watered down now.

I thought Deathmarks were quite good before.
Being cheaper now is just a bonus.
I'm sad that I can only bring 3 squads of them.

I think there's quite a bit to like about Deathmarks:
T5,
sv3+,
deepstrike, (you do know the value of DS don't you?)
reanimation,
& their ability to shoot at deepstriking foes within 18 as if it's your shooting phase (so hitting on 2s). Ok, this one's situational, but it happens.

And then there's their gun:
Range 36" (not sure how your counting that as too short...)
S5
Ap-2
2 damage
Heavy & precision
They're great at sniping characters, wound many infantry on a 3+, kill the average marine etc with each failed save, and can do all this from a good distance provided LoS.
They can even threaten vehicles.

Ok, so they only have a RoF of 1. But dont we all wish our snipers could fire faster?

Point for point, Deathmarks now out shoot Immortals into 2w space marines, and have precision, and have deep strike, and have free reaction shooting vs reserves.

They are also the cheapest deep strike unit we have, making them great for secondaries, and exceptional in Hypercrypt.

They also come in the killteam set to get you a discount Technomancer which is neat.

ccs wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

Even with their reduced cost, did anyone actually think deathmarks are any good? Not enough range for their limited shots; not enough shots for their limited range. I miss their old "hunters from hyperspace" ability. They're so watered down now.

I thought Deathmarks were quite good before.
Being cheaper now is just a bonus.
I'm sad that I can only bring 3 squads of them.

I think there's quite a bit to like about Deathmarks:
T5,
sv3+,
deepstrike, (you do know the value of DS don't you?)
reanimation,
& their ability to shoot at deepstriking foes within 18 as if it's your shooting phase (so hitting on 2s). Ok, this one's situational, but it happens.

And then there's their gun:
Range 36" (not sure how your counting that as too short...)
S5
Ap-2
2 damage
Heavy & precision
They're great at sniping characters, wound many infantry on a 3+, kill the average marine etc with each failed save, and can do all this from a good distance provided LoS.
They can even threaten vehicles.

Ok, so they only have a RoF of 1. But dont we all wish our snipers could fire faster?

Aren't most faction's snipers 48 inch range? I could be wrong here.

Shorter than other factions' snipers isn't the same as too short.

How often do you want to shoot something more than 36" away?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Shorter than other factions' snipers isn't the same as too short.

How often do you want to shoot something more than 36" away?

When you're talking about a slower moving army with a semi-standard range of 24 inches, it is.

That's reductive. Having 48 inches of range vs 36 allows for different strategies and plans to be laid.

Which other snipers are 48"? The only snipers I frequently come up against are Eliminators and Rangers and I thought they were both 36" too.

Deathmarks compare well to both of those units, much cheaper than Eliminators (but they get damage 3 guns), marginally more expensive than Rangers but a lot more durable (and Rangers have strength 4 rifles I think).

 Insularum wrote:
Which other snipers are 48"? The only snipers I frequently come up against are Eliminators and Rangers and I thought they were both 36" too.

Deathmarks compare well to both of those units, much cheaper than Eliminators (but they get damage 3 guns), marginally more expensive than Rangers but a lot more durable (and Rangers have strength 4 rifles I think).

I'm not sure what other snipers are 48 inches in 10th edition. That's why I said I could be wrong in a previous post.
If anyone could weigh in that would be great.

Eldar rangers 36
SM eliminators, scout snipers. 36
Vindicaire assassin 48

36 seems standard for snipers.

Seems like I was ignorant on the sniper range topic.

I'm probably biased by my annoyance with the way gw is handling necrons. Anyway.....

It seems like a lot of "good" lists revolve around c'tan. I haven't had many games in 10th and I don't play tournaments.

From my experience and what I've read from others about units:
- Doomstalkers are pretty good
- lokhust hds are decent, but below Doomstalkers
- lokhust destroyers: I don't see them taken much. I'm unclear if it's cost related or maybe they're just not performing great because their gun is in a middle ground spot
- Immortals are preferred to warriors, but tesla isn't very good
- praetorians are lackluster
- doomsday cannons are overshadowed by the doomstalkers
- Reanimators are situationally good
- triarch stalkers: I haven't heard much, but they seem to be pretty meh
- annihilation barges are pretty sad due to tesla
- ghostarks just aren't very useful
- flyers....not great and overpriced
- monolith is only good in hypercrypt lists but not really because of offensive or defensive abilities
- tesseract vault/obelisk: I don't ever remember a time when either was very good.
- flayed ones I'm unsure of
- tomb blades decent objective grabbers
- skorpekhs good at cb but wraiths are more durable
- ophydians I've never used and haven't heard much
- lychguard used to be really good but with recent changes it seems like they took a hit. Not sure where they stand now
- C'tan are all usable and good in their own ways. I see them in a lot of competitive lists.

These are just my general impressions and if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me or fill in the blanks. I didn't cover every unit or the characters; chime in and add your opinions on them if you like.

I'm wondering if there are decent lists without relying on wraiths and c'tan. What are people's favorite units and why do you like them?

I've got to admit that I miss the Silvertide gun lines stripping tanks through volume of fire while doomsday arks blast huge holes in defensive lines. I still try to run lots of warriors but sadly, they're not very effective anymore. I do enjoy the doomstalkers though! Pretty cool units.

Morning all - quick question - I've got a set of Lychguard/Praetorians to build at some point. I believe that gives me three options, depending on Lychguard loadout?

Which would you recommend I build & paint first, either from a game usefulness POV, and/or an aesthetic POV?

 Dysartes wrote:
Morning all - quick question - I've got a set of Lychguard/Praetorians to build at some point. I believe that gives me three options, depending on Lychguard loadout?

Which would you recommend I build & paint first, either from a game usefulness POV, and/or an aesthetic POV?

Going for looks, I've always liked the warscythe Lychguard and think they look pretty great with an Overlord in their ranks. In game usefulness is a bit trickier - Lycheguard don't really do anything unique these days and needing to have a character attached to even get their unit rule to work is a bit rough. I think rod Praetorians could be useful in game if only they weren't so overcosted, would be good for rapid ingress-ing onto an objective, then charging off of it after they've scored some points from it.

I had at look at the "new" necron rules (new for me, I know it's been out a while), and it seems kind of meh?
I think the only detachment that looks interesting gameplay wise is the teleporting one because of the sheer amount of tactical flexibility and RP cheese you can do with it.

Looking good post MFM update, winning lists are not spamming the same detachments/combos so much, nice breakdown by Auspex Tactics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wBCejTdpw4

Warrior blobs, Praetorians, Psychomancers all getting some action which is nice to see. Could well be about as internally balanced as any faction could achieve in 10th, with only flyers and fortifications being definite no-go units.