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Tried and pretty much tested list, holo fields on the Fire Prism are a new addition though.


Eldar "The Lost" - 2,000 points

HQ

Farseer Doom, Fortune, spirit stones & runes of witnessing


Elites


10 x Striking Scorpions w/ Wave Serpent exarch w/ scorpion claw serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon


6 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ eldar missile launcher & shuriken cannon


6 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon


Troops

10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon

10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon

10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon - exarch w/ bladestorm

6 x Guardian jetbikes 2 x shuriken cannon


Heavy Support

Fire Prism shruiken cannon & holo fields


Ok, Farseer goes with the Striking Scorpions but stays at the back of combat so doesn't get picked off because as I.C. Using doom and fortune powers helps the Scorpions in combat, also can use Doom on another enemy unit if still in a Wave Serpent and not in the fight yet.

Scorpions go around tackling normal infantry, they have enough attacks but lack power weapons do to any real damage - so Terminators are avoided. I did try Howling Banshees, but once they got out the transport I found they often got shot up, and even taking cover ap4 weapons such as heavy flamers would mince them.

Two units of Fire Dragons go tank busting. I used to have 5 per unit but managed to increase this to 6 per unit instead as I dropped runes of warding from the Farseer as I rarely play against enemy psykers. Dragons are both throw away units, thats why I have two. I'll send them against the hardest enemy unit and let them cause chaos.

Dire Avenger units each support the other elite units, so two Wave Serpents in three seperate teams. The Avengers Serpent screens the other and takes the flack, while the other Serpent will hopefully get a cover save. I did have power weapons on the Exarchs, but I found them useless so dropped them and added bladestorm onto just one Exarch only.

The Guardian Jetbikes I use to take objectives, just turbo boost them and keep them in cover, though they get a 3+ cover save anyway. I've given them shuriken cannons to deal with light armour and tough infantry. They've done me well so far.

Single Fire Prism just hangs at the back of the board dishing out blast templates in either shape. I've given it holo fields to it hangs around a little more, but thats just a point filler really. I've also added a shuriken cannon so it at least can do some damage if the main weapon is taken out.

My tactical plan would be turbo boost units forward, then next turn bail out with the Fire Dragons and wreck enemy transports. With help from the Serpents and Avengers, any survivors should be gunned down. Each Serpent has brightlances, apart from two, one has eldar missile launchers and the other shuriken cannons. These were used mainly because of points, but the missile launcher still does for anti vehicle and troops and the tri-shuriken cannon Serpent goes well with the Striking Scorpions as they can soften up a unit before assaulting, or pop light transport and assault whatever is inside.

My plans of course relie on getting the dice rolls with the brightlances, and its a risk getting out the Avengers if the Serpents don't wreck a transport. Most the time it has paid off, but when it hasn't I seriously feel the pain!

http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com/2009/12/army-list-eldar-lost-2000-points.html

Well, I'd drop the Guadian Jetbikes since all other units in your army are mounted and require S6 or higher weapons for glancing or penetration.
I'd add another Fire Prism and take both Prisms naked.

My only comment, and I'm sorry I don't have points changes to do it, but just one prism doesn't seem like enough. With all the anti tank floating around these days, one of any vehicle doesn't seem like enough.

I have thought about dropping the jetbikes and getting another Prism, though the Prism always seems to last and gets ignored on its own. I'll play it by here as the jetbike squad have always done ok for me.

I'll get a few more games in..

mercer wrote:Ok, Farseer goes with the Striking Scorpions but stays at the back of combat so doesn't get picked off because as I.C.

As an attacker in an assault you have the option to not put him in BTB, however he cannot attack then. When reacting to an assault, or at pile in, you have to move him in BTB if you can.

mercer wrote:I have thought about dropping the jetbikes and getting another Prism, though the Prism always seems to last and gets ignored on its own. I'll play it by here as the jetbike squad have always done ok for me.

I'll get a few more games in..

Well, Prisms are better used in pairs.
A single Prism is only good against Orks or Nids.
But two Prisms can be combined and a combined shot can be rather devastating against MEQ or tanks.

Nivoglibina wrote:

mercer wrote:Ok, Farseer goes with the Striking Scorpions but stays at the back of combat so doesn't get picked off because as I.C.

As an attacker in an assault you have the option to not put him in BTB, however he cannot attack then. When reacting to an assault, or at pile in, you have to move him in BTB if you can.

That is my plan. Though I hope and pray that when moves into B2B the Farseer still won't be within 2" to take damage. Either that or I live him inside the Wave Serpent and cast from inside there.

wuestenfux wrote:

mercer wrote:I have thought about dropping the jetbikes and getting another Prism, though the Prism always seems to last and gets ignored on its own. I'll play it by here as the jetbike squad have always done ok for me.

I'll get a few more games in..

Well, Prisms are better used in pairs.
A single Prism is only good against Orks or Nids.
But two Prisms can be combined and a combined shot can be rather devastating against MEQ or tanks.

I agree on taking tanks in pairs, just for durability purposes.

My 2 cents -

Runes of Witnessing - Change this to Runes of Warding, invaluable against Lash and Witnessing is Meh

Scorpions - Work in the points for outflank, they would be more valuable in later rounds as a suprise

Dragon Serpents - Drop the Main heavy to a Cannon and Under cannon to Cata. These should be moving at at least 12" negating the undercannon, and if you going to be in your opponent's face Cannon will be a better choice. Also Fire Serpents have a nasty habit of going boom.

DA Units - I'm assuming the PW is because that is the way you modeled them? Otherwise DA in CC are pretty fail unless your taking on IG. (just read reasoning but didn't see updated list)

DA Serpents - Brightlances, you face a whole lotta Landraiders? Also remember if you find yourself constantly moving around at 12" the 10pt underslungs go to waste.

Jetbikes - In my personal play I've found it best to one of two configurations: 5-6 Jetbikes naked, turbo around to stay alive till end game (cheap game winner) or 6JB, 2Cannon, Warlock w/ Embolden and spear, get in the fight from unwanted angles and use the 6 Cannon shots and Spear to tear open transports.

Fire Prism - Cannon on a Prism is definitely a no go, you should never have a prism in 24" range unless you care to have it dead. Take the Prism Naked, hover around max range and pop key targets. Also definitely take them in pairs as nothing says loving like a s6 ap3 pieplate on a blob of Marines.

2K without Eldrad?

BlueDagger wrote:My 2 cents -

Runes of Witnessing - Change this to Runes of Warding, invaluable against Lash and Witnessing is Meh

Scorpions - Work in the points for outflank, they would be more valuable in later rounds as a suprise

Dragon Serpents - Drop the Main heavy to a Cannon and Under cannon to Cata. These should be moving at at least 12" negating the undercannon, and if you going to be in your opponent's face Cannon will be a better choice. Also Fire Serpents have a nasty habit of going boom.

DA Units - I'm assuming the PW is because that is the way you modeled them? Otherwise DA in CC are pretty fail unless your taking on IG. (just read reasoning but didn't see updated list)

DA Serpents - Brightlances, you face a whole lotta Landraiders? Also remember if you find yourself constantly moving around at 12" the 10pt underslungs go to waste.

Jetbikes - In my personal play I've found it best to one of two configurations: 5-6 Jetbikes naked, turbo around to stay alive till end game (cheap game winner) or 6JB, 2Cannon, Warlock w/ Embolden and spear, get in the fight from unwanted angles and use the 6 Cannon shots and Spear to tear open transports.

Fire Prism - Cannon on a Prism is definitely a no go, you should never have a prism in 24" range unless you care to have it dead. Take the Prism Naked, hover around max range and pop key targets. Also definitely take them in pairs as nothing says loving like a s6 ap3 pieplate on a blob of Marines.

I rarely play against enemy psykers so no need to use warding, witnessing is better as I can pass tests better

Outflank isn't a reliable tactic.

I need the ranged anti tank, and if I suffer weapon destroyed a shuriken catalpult is useless. With a cannon I can still pop armour and tackle infantry better.

My mistake, I should remove power weapons.

I play at lot against mech lists, brightlance is that bit better than a missile launcher.

I think turbo boosting jetbikes around all game not doing anything would be a waste, if I had points for a warlock I'd throw one in.

Cannon is only there if weapon destroyed, I've been in a situtation twice where the main prism cannon is destroyed - a shuriken catapult cannot do anything. I have thought about dropping the jetbikes for another prism, but I am not sure.

ghost11 wrote:2K without Eldrad?

I don't need Eldrad. Adds nothing to the army and only allows to use thre psychic powers per turn, my Farseer can do the same job, really.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I've done some tuning and made a few changes. I have dropped runes of witnessing and fortune from the Farseer, but added guide instead. I have dropped also the shuriken cannon from the Fire Prism. I have swapped the missile launcher on the Fire Dragon's Serpent for twin-linked shuriken cannons, and gave the Scorpions the brightlance Serpent and the other t-l shuri cannon Serpent to the other Dragon unit. I have also dropped the exarch and bladestorm from the Dire Avenger unit and now managed to fit in another Fire Prism

I think the different Serpents will mesh better. The Dragons can bail out, pop a transport and the Serpents gun down the survivors with mass shuriken fire. The Scorpions can do more or less the same trick, pop a transport with the Serpent and then assault the survivors - hopefully it will work.

Here is the new list:

HQ

Farseer doom, guide & spirit stones

Elites

10 x Striking Scorpions w/ Wave Serpent exarch w/ scorpion claw serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon

Troops

10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon
10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon
10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon
6 x Guardian jetbikes 2 x shuriken cannon

Heavy Support

Fire Prism
Fire Prism

Much better final list, IMO.

Tried this list, lost the game, got tabled! :( . List works well over all. I just had some bad luck and down hill from there.

What army tabled you?

6 x Guardian jetbikes 2 x shuriken cannon

I'd drop the GJB's and add another Fire Prism or a squadron of Vypers.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:What army tabled you?

Tyranids. Some bad luck on turn 2 was downhill from there, 4 out of 5 fire dragons missed a winged hive tyrant. Clawed it back a bit, but was too late.

wuestenfux wrote:

6 x Guardian jetbikes 2 x shuriken cannon

I'd drop the GJB's and add another Fire Prism or a squadron of Vypers.

Jetbikes have always worked for me so I think I'm going to keep them. I think a third fire prism will be the odd one out, 2 work ok.

I'm pretty happy with the list and it works well so I'm probably gonna leave it as is.

Wait, you got tabled and are happy with the list and think it works well?????

I'm struggling to see how you could get tabled with this list against Nids, assuming they aren't using the soon to be released codex of course.

You have a completely mech army which can play keep away better than anyone, against an army which struggles against armour unless they can bash it to death in combat. What size table are you playing on and how heavy is terrain?

Certainly nothing in your list is bad, maybe swapping the Bright Lances to Scatter Lasers (also saves points) could be considered as 2 squads of Fire Dragons + the Prisms should be enough to take out most heavy armour. Scatter Lasers are better than Bright Lances against Rhinos and even against Chimeras if you can get to the sides and they deal with inf much better. To me the only units which stand out a bit in this army are the jetbikes and Scorpions.

The jetbikes, as people have said, are only really there for last second objective grabs, and even then that's only going to work if you have last turn (and the game ends when you want it to). I would either run them as 2 squads of 3 and reserve them all the time and hide them until you have to boost them to and objective, or drop them for more killing power. You can probably get by with 3 troops at 2000pts as they are all in transports.

The Scorpions stand out because they are the lone close combat unit in a totally mech shooting based army. Assaulting out of Serpents isn't easy at all with the only access point at the rear, you basically have to expose the Serpent to being charged and/or rear shotted for them to assault out of it.

2 things come to mind to fill the role they play for this list (killing lots of infantry basically). A Foot Council, not fully loaded up (Enhance, Fortune Seer etc), just with as many Destructor Warlocks as you can fit, gives you are nasty unit which can burn things to death really well particularly when combined with Doom. As a bonus they are a decent backup anti tank unit with Witchblades or Singing Spears. The alternative is Storm Guardians with 2 Flamers + Destructor Warlock, not as damaging against most targets but has the advantage of another scoring unit. Both these units run in Serpents obviously and can do plenty of damage without needing to charge.

3 Fire Prisms only start to be needed once your opponent plays you a few times are realises how nasty they can be. Mine either tend to end the game almost untouched or get taken out early. Prisms should never be taken alone, 2 gives you the linked shot and 3 gives you a backup to the linked shot (and the super S8 AP2 blast of death) but at 2000 you can probably get by with 2.

As far as things you could add/change, at 2000pts I tend to want 2 Farseers (many people take Eldrad based on this thinking but I only ever take him at 2500). I don't see the point in Guide as there is rarely ever going to be more than 1 possible target for it. No point casting on the tanks obviously and the Farseer/s will be riding with one of the Avengers and he can only ever cast Guide on the unit he is riding with (as the others aren't valid targets while still in the transports, read GW FAQ) which rules out the other couple of Avenger units and the Fire Dragons. Doom is much more useful as multiple units can get the benefit and opens up things like last ditch assaults with Avengers and Dragons to pull down the last couple of guys etc. Swapping to 2 Farseers, both with just Doom will likely be much more effective, covering a larger area and giving redundancy and are only slightly more expensive as you can save on the Spirit Stones.

The only other units which spring to mind for this list are War Walkers and Vypers. Vypers fit the fast mech theme a bit better as they are faster, best bet is EML and Cannon, staying as near to max range as possible to avoid as much fire as they can. War Walkers I have yet to try in a mech list like this, but 3 each with 2 Scatter Lasers provides a huge amount of firepower and provides a great place to use Guide if you keep it.

You kind of missed my point about the list. There is nothing wrong with the list, it works well. Just because it lost one game out of x amount and got tabled doesn't make it a bad list. Problem was bad dice rolls, which I've already said.

When tyranids pass most there cover saves and hit well in assault then you die, easily.

The table is 6 x 4 and about half the table has terrain I'd say. I can easily move around tyranids, and I did, but they have buckets of attacks and will hit on 4's or 6's anyway.

If I change brightlances to scatter lasers how am I going to crack armour? I'm not, so not good. Scatter laser is S6 brightlance S8 I am failed to see how a S6 weapon is better than S8 when it needs a 5+ to glance. Brightlance does more damage on a fex as needs 2+ to wound and allows no save, scatter laser they will get a save and needs 4+. Sorry, but thats bad advice there.

Jetbikes work ok for me so I'm keeping them. I perhaps could split them down into two units and give them a go.

Aye, I agree about serpents. Thats where serpents and eldar assault armies suck.

Storm guardians with 5+ save? You're joking, right?

Both fire prisms lasted until the end of the game. I don't need three, two is enough and they stay out of range. My opponent needs to come to me to get them, which takes several turns.

I've never had the need for two farseers and guide works better than fortune, for me. Only use for two farseers would be double doom and thats it. I possibly might squeeze this in, if I can.

I'm not keen on war walkers of vypers. Both are weak and don't do anything for me.

I appreciate that advice but I think your getting to hung up on my loss. Its the first time I've lost with this army and only play 4 times, I'm not bothered in losing as long as I had a good game, which I did. The tyranid army was tough and used good tactics, and I did have some bad luck. Its just the way the cookie crumbles. Just because the list lost doesn't make it no good, especially when its the first loss, also scatter lasers aren't going to be any better than brightlances for monstrous creatures and armour 10 and 11 vehicles...

Powerguy wrote:I don't see the point in Guide as there is rarely ever going to be more than 1 possible target for it. No point casting on the tanks obviously and the Farseer/s will be riding with one of the Avengers and he can only ever cast Guide on the unit he is riding with (as the others aren't valid targets while still in the transports, read GW FAQ)

Guide is not a "shooting" psychic ability, thus you don't need a fire point. You can be inside a skimmer and cast in on any unit within 6" of the hull.