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Hi guys.

A long time ago I started a 5th edition Chaos codex. I gave up after a while, and in the past couple of weeks I have resumed it. I am very happy with how it has turned out!

A couple of things, though:
1. This is still not finished yet, it is a VERY rough draft and as such there are probably a lot of broken combos and under/overpriced/broken models and things that I have missed. Please don't rant and whine about it; but please let me know so that I can fix it. : )
2. You can have legions and it is quite easy to make legions, but this book is NOT focused on Legions.
3. This Codex combines 3 ideas: Marine Renegades, Daemons, and Humanoid Renegades. They can be played as a unified force, or separate.


The most current version:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29523383/Eternal-Slaves-of-Chaos-Completely-Redone




Thanks,
Vlad

No one?

Rapidshare wrote:Error

This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, or a Collector's Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times.

This limit is reached.

To download this file, the uploader either needs to transfer this file into his/her Collector's Account, or upload the file again. The file can later be moved to a Collector's Account. The uploader just needs to click the delete link of the file to get further information.

This might be why. . .

****.

What the feth. I uploaded it to a collector's...nevermind. I'll fix it.

Thanks though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I have now fixed the problem, here is the new link:

http://www.easy-share.com/1908767382/Eternal Slaves of Chaos Fixed.pdf

It will be available in a couple of minutes or so. Please take a look at it!

This is pathetic, guys. I had to go to Warseer to get comments.

Anyway, here is the updated version: http://www.easy-share.com/1908777911/Chaos Codex Finished Version 1.1.docx

Maybe nobody wants it. It's cool to see that you want something more, but I will stick with my (un)'crappy' current 'dex.

Ok;

I personally feel that this codex is far too complex, contains a number of things that are significantly underpriced (2+ save and +1 T for 16 points? Really?), and also contains far too much of the random element. I don't want to have to roll dice to see what's in my army.

I appreciate that you wanted to bring back some of the old flavor of Chaos, but putting renegades, mutants, CSM, and Traitor Guard all together in the same codex is just too much.

In addition, some of your stuff is just weird. For instance, why is the Legionnaire-class Land Raider 30 points more than the regular Land Raider, when the only difference is that the Legionnaire doesn't have a heavy bolter?

BeRzErKeR wrote:Ok;

I personally feel that this codex is far too complex,

Fair enough.

contains a number of things that are significantly underpriced (2+ save and +1 T for 16 points? Really?), and also contains far too much of the random element. I don't want to have to roll dice to see what's in my army.

It's actually 22 points for the 2+ save and the +1 T doesn't always happen.

I think that it's very easy to ignore the random element. You can pretty easily ignore the attribute table and the Chaos weapons as they are sort of bystanders for a more 'casual' setting. Too random for tournaments. The Chaos Attributes, however, have some 'buyable' attributes like Strength and Giant Growth and Wings which are pretty much mainstays anyway.

In addition, some of your stuff is just weird. For instance, why is the Legionnaire-class Land Raider 30 points more than the regular Land Raider, when the only difference is that the Legionnaire doesn't have a heavy bolter?

Crap, I meant to put TL autocannons. That will get fixed.

Would it still be too good if it only had 2 TL autocannons?

Though I doubt anyone cares, here's the newly updated version:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ddgjjwjz2om

I love it! Looks like amazing fun to play. I hope GW will go back to its roots for C: CSM 5th.

Manchu wrote:I love it! Looks like amazing fun to play. I hope GW will go back to its roots for C: CSM 5th.

Thank you very much!

I find that a lot of the charm has to do with the randomness of it all. Nothing like having your Chaos Lord get Cowardice!

I agree. I want to incorporate possessed in the Word Bearer army I'm about to start (thanks Santa!) but haven't found a great place for them yet. Thanks again for the excellent work on ESoC.

Hi everyone,

I have newly updated the codex with some wording and price fixes, and have also added Chosen Daemons in the form of the elites from the current Daemon codex.

Hope you enjoy!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/fh0namdxzyj/ESoC Codex 1.4.pdf

Cool, i`ll check it out

I like how my WorldEaters play. I just added one unit of plague marines because they seemed solid objective holders. I don't want to change things now....

Kurgash wrote:I like how my WorldEaters play. I just added one unit of plague marines because they seemed solid objective holders. I don't want to change things now....

Well this is a fandex, you don't have to change anything as it isn't official.

But if you want to use your army with this codex...you are still able to.

There are some restrictions, but at the same time a lot opens up.

If you just want to add a unit of Plague Marines to your World Eaters army, you're still able to and you shouldn't have to change anything. In some ways they are better because they can take a lot more weapons and have a lot more options like veteran skills.

However if you want to add a unit of Noise Marines to your World Eaters army...well there might be a little problem.

Currently I am thinking of adding some sort of Black Legion option-that is, you can have any sort of unit. I'm trying to think of a possible downside...like all marks are doubled in price or something.

Hi guys, here are the trial rules for Renegade Technological Advisors! (A bit of a no-brainer to use with Beastmen but only because it's so fun! )

http://www.mediafire.com/file/kmdodhijd3z/Renegade Tech ESOC.docx

Hi guys, I have a quick question. How do you feel about this special character breakdown?

Daemons:
Skarbrand (Bloodthirster)
Fateweaver (Lord of Change)
Kugath (Great Unclean One)
Darkclaw Foambite (Keeper of Secrets)
Thothamon-Saator (Greater Daemon-Undivided)

Renegade Humanoids:
Deranged Derek (Khornate Human)
Inquisitor Valshezzar (Tzeentchian Inquisitor)
Captain Halgon (Nurglesque Imperial Guard captain)
The Black Antelope (Slaaneshi Beastman)
Ferin Grimjaw (Chaos Undivided squat)
Lessei Moondancer (Eldar pirate)

Renegade Marines:
Abaddon the Despoiler
Ahriman
Cypher
Fabius Bile
Lufgt Huron "Blackheart"
Kharn the Betrayer
Lucius the Eternal
Typhus


That's right, 19 Special Characters.
My particular favorites are Thothamon-Saator who is a BAMF daemon that is incredibly powerful (for a rather hefty points cost!) and Captain Halgon, who allows you to take one Valkyrie/Vendetta as a Heavy Support choice.

Do we really need another Chaos spin-off? Really??

Eldar Own wrote:Do we really need another Chaos spin-off? Really??

Did you read it? It's a reinvention, not a spin-off. I'm not a particular fan of legions or 3.5 in particular which is what most "spin off" codices try to go for. There are enough options that you can successfully play legions, though, but this is not the intent.

Hiya!

Sorry for bringing this thread back up but I have published, in a second document, an Expansion to this codex so that I can get feedback before it is actually added in.

Please let me know about your feelings on Skeletal Champions! Thanks!

-Vlad

The document is here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/29403385/Eternal-Slaves-of-Chaos-Skeletal-Champions-and-Terminators

I liked it!!!

The only thing that I've ever found lacking with chaos codexes (gamesworkshop and fan-made) is that they do not include enough Psychic powers to suit me!

but then again no codex has enough of those for me, as I feel that Librarians and such are underpowered with the Psychic powers they have now...

To make my point, I wanna see more psychic powers

The short version: I like it.

The long version: I like it, but it has issues.

Firstly, I think it's a very complex ruleset. I know, something that a monkey scrawls on a napkin is more complex than our current Codex, but this almost looks like it came straight from 2nd edition. Not entirely a bad thing, but it feels like it's a bit too much for this edition, especially if Joe Bloggs wants to try out this fandex and has to explain everything to his opponent/gaming group.

For example, Chaos Armour gives a 3+ save and can upgrade that to a 2+ save with the chance of giving +1T. Why not just keep Power Armour as the 3+ save, and allow a model to upgrade to Chaos Armour for the 2+ save? Then, after deployment, roll a D6 for each model with Chaos Armour - on a 4+ they gain +1T. Same effect, less confusion.

Another example would be Aspiring Champions. IMHO, they work well enough as they are now, and in some ways even better. To me, Aspiring Champions are the powerful members of a small warband (their squad, in gaming terms) who then owes allegiance to a more powerful Champion (Chaos Lord) for whatever reason. It doesn't make sense that they can be swapped around between squads (their warbands) before a battle.

Regarding the Chaotic Attributes, I love them. However, many people like to have an established background (or even model) for their champions, rather than randomly generate them at the start of the game. As such, I'd prefer to see them as more like the Daemonic Gifts of the old Codex, except with disadvantages if you take too many (like what you've done with the armour save reduction). I know, people can just ignore the random element if they wish, but having it stay random makes things very cluttered and complex to me. Just personal opinion.

Secondly, there are a few RAW oddities floating about. Here are a few that I picked up from skimming the document:
-P2 under Animosity - "...Rage towards the nearest Rival unit". I get the intention here, you want the rival to move towards its rivals. But does this mean they must run towards it? Assault it as if it was an enemy? I think this could be clarified by saying that the unit must "move towards the nearest Rival unit by the shortest route possible" instead.
-P4 under Jealous Gods - does the 25% apply to the number of models, or points spent on them? If I have an army of 50 models in 1500pts, do I have to dedicate 13 models of that to my HQ's god, or do I have to dedicate 375pts?
-P5 etc - I assume "PPM" stands for "points per model"?
-P11 under Frenzon - how long to the effects last for?

Now, the things I like.

I like that you can take a mixed army if you want, or an army focused on non-CSM renegades, or an army focused on Daemons from a single document. It's how Chaos should be.

I like the increased options. Possessed may actually be worthwhile, but I'm not sure they should be a Troops choice.

I like that everything has flavour. Things like the Animosity and Jealous Gods rules make it possible to field an army of opposing gods, but emphasise the fact that they don't like doing it; the Chaotic Attributes table is full of flavour (though I think it shouldn't be random, personally). And Veteran Skills!

I like your Cult rules. Simple and effective: give your units a Mark of Chaos, then upgrade them further to Cults. Ingenious.



All in all, it certainly has potential. It just needs some things to be trimmed down and simplified. Cutting down on the number of dice rolls and tables would be a good start, IMHO.

Looking forward to seeing how this evolves.

Cheexsta wrote:The short version: I like it.

The long version: I like it, but it has issues.

Firstly, I think it's a very complex ruleset. I know, something that a monkey scrawls on a napkin is more complex than our current Codex, but this almost looks like it came straight from 2nd edition. Not entirely a bad thing, but it feels like it's a bit too much for this edition, especially if Joe Bloggs wants to try out this fandex and has to explain everything to his opponent/gaming group.

For example, Chaos Armour gives a 3+ save and can[/list] upgrade that to a 2+ save with the chance of giving +1T. Why not just keep Power Armour as the 3+ save, and allow a model to upgrade to Chaos Armour for the 2+ save? Then, after deployment, roll a D6 for each model with Chaos Armour - on a 4+ they gain +1T. Same effect, less confusion.

First of all, thank you so much for your feedback! Chaos Armor has gone through a lot of iterations and to be honest I like yours the best. Consider it changed.
(The first Chaos Armor I made started out as a 5+ save that could be upgraded to up to a 2+)

Another example would be Aspiring Champions. IMHO, they work well enough as they are now, and in some ways even better. To me, Aspiring Champions are the powerful members of a small warband (their squad, in gaming terms) who then owes allegiance to a more powerful Champion (Chaos Lord) for whatever reason. It doesn't make sense that they can be swapped around between squads (their warbands) before a battle.

The reasoning behind me doing this was allowing for
1. A cheap HQ
2. It's like the Eye of Terro "Lost and the Damned" mini-codex where Aspiring Champions were purchased in squads of 1-3 and then allocated.

Regarding the Chaotic Attributes, I love them. However, many people like to have an established background (or even model) for their champions, rather than randomly generate them at the start of the game. As such, I'd prefer to see them as more like the Daemonic Gifts of the old Codex, except with disadvantages if you take too many (like what you've done with the armour save reduction). I know, people can just ignore the random element if they wish, but having it stay random makes things very cluttered and complex to me. Just personal opinion.

In a way, this codex is a homage to the d1000 mutation list in Slaves to Darkness. Do you think that I could perhaps have a non-random table and then have a random table? This would help people ignore the random table completely and just look at the attributes that they can buy for their mutants and be done with it.

Secondly, there are a few RAW oddities floating about. Here are a few that I picked up from skimming the document:
-P2 under Animosity - "...Rage towards the nearest Rival unit". I get the intention here, you want the rival to move towards its rivals. But does this mean they must run towards it? Assault it as if it was an enemy? I think this could be clarified by saying that the unit must "move towards the nearest Rival unit by the shortest route possible" instead.
-P4 under Jealous Gods - does the 25% apply to the number of models, or points spent on them? If I have an army of 50 models in 1500pts, do I have to dedicate 13 models of that to my HQ's god, or do I have to dedicate 375pts?
-P5 etc - I assume "PPM" stands for "points per model"?
-P11 under Frenzon - how long to the effects last for?

Thank you for clearing these up! This is exactly why having input is awesome. These are all fixed now. (I have also noted that PPM means (points per model) as it is understandably confusing! You are also not the first to ask about it so don't worry.)

Now, the things I like.

I like that you can take a mixed army if you want, or an army focused on non-CSM renegades, or an army focused on Daemons from a single document. It's how Chaos should be.

I like the increased options. Possessed may actually be worthwhile, but I'm not sure they should be a Troops choice.

I like that everything has flavour. Things like the Animosity and Jealous Gods rules make it possible to field an army of opposing gods, but emphasise the fact that they don't like doing it; the Chaotic Attributes table is full of flavour (though I think it shouldn't be random, personally). And Veteran Skills!

I like your Cult rules. Simple and effective: give your units a Mark of Chaos, then upgrade them further to Cults. Ingenious.


All in all, it certainly has potential. It just needs some things to be trimmed down and simplified. Cutting down on the number of dice rolls and tables would be a good start, IMHO.

Looking forward to seeing how this evolves.

Again, thank you so much for your input!

I am currently looking at streamlining the Chaos Weapon to having you be able to choose from one of the 6 powers, and then paying 10 for another, then 15 if you want a third, and so on and so forth. Would reduce the random aspect.

@Grayspark-
16 Psychic powers isn't enough for you?! Wow!

I was thinking of adding 2 more Powers to the Undivided section but I'm still on the fence.

Sometimes you really, really like something but the general opinion is in the other direction!

And sometimes you have to accept the fact that you're wrong!

What does this all mean, you ask? It means that "Eternal Slaves of Chaos" has been overhauled.

Not completely of course, but much of it has changed.

As a very cheezy line in a musical I was in stated, "the hardest part of love is letting go..."

Well enough of me being super emotional! Here is the newly remastered, director's cut, in 3-d (not really), ESOC version 1.9!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29523383/Eternal-Slaves-of-Chaos-Completely-Redone

Thanks again for everyone's comments!

Oh and please give more!

I like the chaotic overall look, though it sometimes may be a little complicated. Oh well, at least it is more fun than the current boring one.
I don't think the Dark apostle should be abe to take cult options though, as they are belonging to the word bearers, and they are always undivided.

One thing i had in mind was assault terminators, with "Daemonshields" and "warpweapons"...

I don't really understand the daemon weapons. What do you mean with the kind of daemon they hold? Could you explain that a little?

Saintspirit wrote:I like the chaotic overall look, though it sometimes may be a little complicated. Oh well, at least it is more fun than the current boring one.
I don't think the Dark apostle should be abe to take cult options though, as they are belonging to the word bearers, and they are always undivided.

Thank you, I don't have much knowledge on the Word Bearers. This will be fixed.

One thing i had in mind was assault terminators, with "Daemonshields" and "warpweapons"...

OOh, interesting! I like it!

Perhaps the Assault Terminators could all use Chaos Weapons. That would be stupidly deadly yet very cool.

Daemonshields, I imagine that they would be like the current Stormshields? I could certainly think of something else though. (Perhaps reduce the strength of incoming weapons by d3?)

I don't really understand the daemon weapons. What do you mean with the kind of daemon they hold? Could you explain that a little?

My apologies.

Let's say that you purchase a Human Champion of Khorne, and you give him a Daemon Weapon.

Since the Human Champion has the Mark of Khorne, the Daemon Weapon will be Khornate.

Then you roll a d6 to see what type of Daemon the Weapon holds. By 'holding', I mean that the Daemon Weapon is possessed by that type of Daemon.

For that d6 roll, a 1-4 is a Lesser Daemon, and a 5-6 is a Greater Daemon.

For example, for Khorne, the Lesser Daemon is a Bloodletter, and the greater Daemon is a Bloodthirster.

Hopefully that helps!

I have been trying to make this codex less and less complicated, anything that helps would be great.