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hi all,
as I'm new to this forum I'd like to hear your comments about this list, which is basically designed to rip power armors apart. so, here it is:
HQ
emperor champion, accept all challanges
3 wounds terminator hero furoius charge 2x claws mantle for avoid instkill
assault terminators retinue (6) furious charge
Troops
4x 5 marine las plasma (oldschool)

elites
5 x assault termies furious charge

heavy support
2x land raiders crusader
predator autocannon 2 lascannons

the, pretty obvious, point of the list is to shoot down any transport and nuke stuff with imba terminators. as for the counterattack i was thinking to leave the EC behind to protect the TSM and hopefully take down something. to counter vehicles spam list there's actually not much, and I know that relying on the lascannon can result in massive disappointment, but still, hey, that's 1 las and 1 plasma rifle for 101 points!
so let me know what you think, any advice is helpful!

How is your Marshal taking assault terminators as a retinue? Marshals can only get basic terminators for their command squads.

I'd swap out the predator for attack bikes with multi-meltas. I think that your troop choices need a rhino or two for protection. You can still shoot the lascannon out the top, but the opponent will have to knock you out of the transport to get to the unit inside.

Aww, you're right, I checked. though it seems totally senseless, no assault termies as retinue and thus no furious charge for the IC.

About the MMAB, for the vow i have to charge whenever I can, so, even if 3 MM kick asses much more then 2 lascannon and 1 autocannon, I think I'm staying with the predator.not to mention that BT MMAB cost no less then 65 points each leaving me with approx 50 points to save.

cmon, more advices pls!

hi all,
as I'm new to this forum I'd like to hear your comments about this list, which is basically designed to rip power armors apart. so, here it is:

HQ
emperor champion, accept all challanges

standard, but why you are using this i have no idea, with one of the best troop choices in the game wasted on the most expensive lascannons ever you will not be using aacnmtc to its fullest.

3 wounds terminator hero furoius charge 2x claws mantle for avoid instkill
assault terminators retinue (6) furious charge

as said before, you can't do this, just buy up another termi assault squad and call it a day.


Troops
4x 5 marine las plasma (oldschool)

over at bolter and chainsword we have done the math and these are horrible, for the points you have to spend to get a las-cannon in the squad you are better off going with something else. For troops the best that I have seen is take 8 initiates 2 neophytes all with bp/ccw 2 initiates have special weapons, one a powerfist and the other a melta-gun all in a rhino, if you want a character in this drop an initiate. That setup plays very well to the strengths of our crusader squads and is the most economical for the points to result, another really nasty way to field them is to drop them in an lrc same as before but with 10 initiates and 5 neophytes, drop a neo for any ic's. cruisader squads are one of those things that just shouldn't change all that much, they are our backbone and that needs to stay pretty solid, your anti-power armour capability comes from the EC's vow not the weapo0n itself, rolling a nice large handful of nice on the wound will always result in some good damage, vs just one shot and hoping you hit then hoping you wound.

elites
5 x assault termies furious charge

good, but what are they in? and what are they kitted with? if they are standard I would give them 4 lightning claws and 1 thunderhammer, if in an lrc I would purchase a couple more, 1 more dlc and 1 more th/ss.

heavy support
2x land raiders crusader
predator autocannon 2 lascannons

rule for our heavy support is 1 is none and 2 is 1 so you need another predator, and now for that. the destructor sucks, and adding the lascannons on it just makes it worse, honestly we get the tri-las cheaper then vanilla marines and you will be popping more armour with it then with the destructor.

the, pretty obvious, point of the list is to shoot down any transport and nuke stuff with imba terminators. as for the counterattack i was thinking to leave the EC behind to protect the TSM and hopefully take down something. to counter vehicles spam list there's actually not much, and I know that relying on the lascannon can result in massive disappointment, but still, hey, that's 1 las and 1 plasma rifle for 101 points!
so let me know what you think, any advice is helpful!

what is a tsm? and again the 101 points for a mini-dev is a horrible waste, you will be shot up like nobodies business righteous zeal will kick your ass, and the use of them is hard, we are a close combat army, why try for range, i know i have done it once but it is really hard to pull off and not points efficient. With ascnmtc we can re-roll all missed hits, why not use this, otherwise you are better off with a cheaper vow. now i don't wnat to sound mean, but if you want to be playing a ranged space marines army just get the vanilla marines codex, you will be happier. we are black templars we charge into combat, we don't stand back and shoot.

well, I used to run a initiate- based templar force with rhinos and all the assault stuff, but in these times I have the feeling that a power armour and a chainsword just isn't enough to kill. this is the assumption on getting 2 LRC and 2 assault termies. the "we charge into combat part" is them, I mean.
anyway I'm new here and the concept of mathammering game ideas is unfamiliar to me, so hey, I said that every advice would be helpful and I really mean it. could you please post your version of my list, then?
oh, and thanks for the answers!

HQ
marshal polc adamantine mantle 135
emperor's champion aacnmtc 140

Troops
crusader squad, 7 power fist melta-gun neophytes (1) rhino marshal 197
crusader squad, 7 power fist melta-gun neophytes (1) rhino champion 197

Elites
assault terminators, 5 4 dlc 1 th/ss lrc 465
assault terminators, 5 4 dlc 1 th/ss lrc 465

Heavy Support
vindicator, 1 125
vindicator, 1 125

ok, so this is what i got for ya, it had to be a modified a little bit to fit those 2 terminator squads into it, honestly I would only have one and have a crusader squad in an lrc this would save you some points and give you more scoring units.

the list looks pretty cool, I'll give it a try! thanks a lot and continue posting! now I feel that, even if it's a CC monster, it lacks a lot of anti-tank capability. maybe changing a vindicator (or both) for a full las predator? or some MMAB, as was suggested before?

With this list each squad has anti-tank capabilities, this is made more for versatility rather then focus, ther isn't a strong lack of focus though, the true problem like i said earlier is the two small terminators squads with the lrc's these are points sinks, if you shift these around a bit such as make one of the termie squads a 7 man with 2 th/ss and a LRC and drop the other you have enough points to buy another crusader squad with a LRC, and possibly even replace the vindicators with tri-las predators.

Back only to say that i tested your list against a salamander mate and it works pretty well. Though I won, I had a feeling those dreadnoughts and ss/th termies were just too hard for every unit in my army and I managed to avoid them just because of his alpha strike phail.
the 2 vindicators are fine, but not more. I hoped to see huge troop damage and they actually did it until a dreadnought drop podded near there and made quick work of them. so then, any tips to grant the vindis more survivability?
initiates were great, winning every troop combat they stepped in by far. one of the three unit got stuck in combat with vulkan and an ironclad for n turns, managing to kill vulkan himself and ripping one of the dreadnought's CC weapons and gave only in turn 5.
termies never really had an opponent, as they only managed to immobilize an enemy vindi and in the end kill a 5 man tactic squad that was contesting an obj, but I suppose that's my fault.
so, here's the report. from the little you can have understood from my words, what would you advice me to do/get/dunno?

Really the risk to the vindicators is normal, They will be targeted if they start putting down to much hurt, the benefit from this is that they distract your opponent away from your lrc's. Only thing that will protect your vindicators is proper deployment, that is put them in difficult terrain or in mutually supporting positions, being about 6 inches away from each other so the storm Bolters can help out and they can rotate to bring the pie-plate to bear.