Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Last night I played a game that brought up an interesting situation. It was a large multiple unit close combat action that was neck and neck. My opponents drednaught exploded. The explosion killed 2 deamonettes. Do these count towards combat resolution? What if it had been a transport and another unit that was assaulted, would the explosion of the transport count towards combat resolution?

I would like peoples thoughts on how they play it, and also what is the "correct" way to play it, i.e. it happens at a tournament and my opponent is a rules lawyer like myself.

From a purely thematic perspective I think the idea of a Dreadnought exploding and then winning the combat due to taking down the enemy with him is tremendously appealing.

If I remember correctly there was a thread about this some time ago. Sadly my Search-Fu is weak and I can´t find it.

Personally I am willing to count casualties from explosions to combat resolution.

EDIT: Page 39 "Determine assault results" talks about "...total up the number of unsaved wounds inflicted by each side on their opponents." ( emphasis mine ).
You could get technical and argue that the wounds from the explosion were not caused by "you". But since the explosion might kill models form both sides, this door swings both ways. I use a system where casualties from explosions give resolution to both sides.

EDIT 2: Good catch Kirsanth. Oh well. Just shows that reading the rulebook in the pre-dawn hours doesn´t give the best possible result.

I'd be fine playing it so the wounds count too. The RaW doesn't support that, but it's got massive cool factor.

I'd be fine playing it so the wounds count too. The RaW doesn't support that, but it's got massive cool factor.

Page 39 also mentions that "In rare cases certain models can cause wounds on themselves or their friends -- obviously these wounds are added to the other side's total for working out who won."

Yup, if the dread explosion wounds enemy models it counts as it was one side inflicted on the other. And if it wounds friendlies, still counts as kirsanth points out.

You can also force morale checks on any unit taking 25% casualties, as the explosion is not a close combat attack.

thebetter1 wrote:You can also force morale checks on any unit taking 25% casualties, as the explosion is not a close combat attack.

... if the unit making the morale check isn't locked in close combat.

Which leads to the hilarious situation of causing a dreadnought to explode, suffering horrible losses in the explosion, and falling back even though the unit "won" (or would have won if the dreadnought hadn't exploded).

solkan wrote:

thebetter1 wrote:You can also force morale checks on any unit taking 25% casualties, as the explosion is not a close combat attack.

... if the unit making the morale check isn't locked in close combat.

Which leads to the hilarious situation of causing a dreadnought to explode, suffering horrible losses in the explosion, and falling back even though the unit "won" (or would have won if the dreadnought hadn't exploded).

While a vehicle exploding in a close combat isn't distinctly a close combat attack, the wounds it causes are still part of the combat and modify combat resolution like any other type of wound. In your example where a unit attacks and explodes a sole Dreadnought, the attacking unit does not take a morale check, as a unit with no remaining enemy models will always win an assault, no matter how many wounds they "lost" by.

You can also force morale checks on any unit taking 25% casualties, as the explosion is not a close combat attack.

How given that these morale checks are always taken at the end of the shooting phase? When would you take the test in the next player turn shooting phase? Or in your opponents next shooting phase? So they can consolidate move, shoot and then start falling back?

You can take a morale check for 25% casualties at *any* time, for example a rhino blowing up in CC causing 25% casualties on a nearby, unengaged unit will cause that unit to take a morale check.

You can take a morale check for 25% casualties at *any* time, for example a rhino blowing up in CC causing 25% casualties on a nearby, unengaged unit will cause that unit to take a morale check.

OK I thought it was only at the end of the shooting phase? However the unit still cannot take a panic check if they are locked in combat can they?

It is any phase - much like movement is always movement even if it isnt in the Movement phase. A unit jumping into Diff terrain can take 25% casualties and therfore be forced to take a morale check

Units locked in combat never take a morale check.

It is any phase - much like movement is always movement even if it isnt in the Movement phase. A unit jumping into Diff terrain can take 25% casualties and therfore be forced to take a morale check

Units locked in combat never take a morale check.

cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So in that case the unit winning the combat against the dread could consolidate and then at the end of the phase take a panic check for the 25% casualities? Is that correct?

NOt in that case - they were locked in combat at the time they took the casualties, and these casualties dont force a morale check.

If another unit outside of combat gets caught in the explosion then it can be forced to take a morale check.

NOt in that case - they were locked in combat at the time they took the casualties, and these casualties dont force a morale check.

I thought that would be the case but from above does RaW actually state this? Sinnce the explodes result is not a CC attack?

I'd certainly play it your way.