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The tiltle says it all, what ordnance to use?
The Basilisk, whit it's high strenght, can instant kill almost anything, but on a small table the enemy can quickly run
to your side of the table, where the basilisk cant shoot due to it's minimum range of 36''.

The Medusa has the highest strenght and a AP of 2, making it a good weapon when facing Terminators and
other heavily armoured opponents. However, the Medusa cannot fire indirectly, so can easyier be destroyed by the enemy,
as you must have line of sight to him, thereby reaveling yourself to his guns.

The Colossus has a lower Strenght compared to the other artillery, but has a lower minimum range than the
Basilisk, and still a AP of 3, and cover saves cannot be taken agains it.
Another bad thing about it is that it cannot fire directly, so is less accurate than the Medusa And Basilisk.

The Griffon, however, has a low minimum range of 12'', lower than both the Colossus and the Basilisk, but it
has a bad AP of 4, meaning it cannot penetrate power armour. Like the Colossus it cannot fire directly, so is less accurate
than some of the other artillery . It also has a low strenght.

So my question: which artillery is best? Which do you use?

correct me if I'm wrong but the basilisk CAN fire directly. The 36" minimum range is for indirect fire it can still fire normally but with los so it isn't lamed if your enemy gets close. I believe the collossus is the only artillery peace that can't fire directly and it says so on its profile. That being said its all up to your preferece and what the rest of your army is comprized of. Are you taking a mech list or is a pure gun line? Are you lacking AP2 fire power or super anti tank shells? then get a medusa, do you want accurate anti horde? if so then take griffons. Figure out what role is needed and use the battery most suited. Personally im' a fan of the manticore more than any of the others. Sure it doesn't have high AP but it can effectively kill anything tanks meq or horde its quite effective and its not open topped like the rest of the artillery.

It's largely a matter of preference, what you're trying to do, and what the rest of your army needs. They're close enough together in relative power that there's no one right answer. I personally like Basilisks.

A note on rules: Inability to fire directly does not affect accuracy. You only lose accuracy if you are taking advantage of a barrage weapon's ability to fire upon targets out of LOS. The most important consequences of inability to fire directly are that you can't ignore your minimum range or fire on the move.

Well for me at least in my 1850 list it is a mech list. I have 2 valks with demo-melta vets 2 melta squads and a flamer squad all in chimeras 2 demolishers a primaris pysker and a PBS. The pysker is in a chimera with a melta vet squad while the PBS has its own chimera. To finish off this list i use a covered Colossus the Strength of the Colossus is balanced because if it is ignored it will reek havoc on any of those who are unwary it is strong enough to take out MeQ and to pop vehicles. But if it is destroyed it will not do that much to my army because it is only 130 points. Most of the time I can always find a target between 24-48 inches away so rarely have I had a turn, unless the enemy has reserved everything or DOW,that I can't find a target

WingsofCadia wrote:Well for me at least in my 1850 list it is a mech list. I have 2 valks with demo-melta vets 2 melta squads and a flamer squad all in chimeras 2 demolishers a primaris pysker and a PBS. The pysker is in a chimera with a melta vet squad while the PBS has its own chimera. To finish off this list i use a covered Colossus the Strength of the Colossus is balanced because if it is ignored it will reek havoc on any of those who are unwary it is strong enough to take out MeQ and to pop vehicles. But if it is destroyed it will not do that much to my army because it is only 130 points. Most of the time I can always find a target between 24-48 inches away so rarely have I had a turn, unless the enemy has reserved everything or DOW,that I can't find a target

A Colossus with armored crew compartment is 155 points?

I personally only use Manticores - D3 S10 large blasts will dominate hordes, and if you come up against MEQ then you can go for their vehicles - these are one of the few long-ranged weapons Land Raiders fear, or chance instant-deathing some expensive HQ units that might fail their save. Because it can fire indirectly, you can hit side armor on things like Ork Battlewagons to easily kill them (I swear, this weapon seems to have been made just for fighting Orks). Plus, they come standard with Enclosed Crew Compartment so they're not as vulnerable.

If I were to take more traditional artillery, I'd go with the basilisk. Indirect S9 is great against vehicles, and AP3 instant death against most units is excellent. Collusus is too specialized for my tastes and I don't like the fact that you essentially have to use Medusas as frontline tanks.

I would use Griffons in smaller games (750 and lower), but in higher points when I can afford more Manticores - why?

It really depends on what the rest of your army is comprised of. I like Griffons mainly because they are cheap and effective anti-troop artillery. However my heavy support slots are at a premium so more often than not I leave the anti infantry duties to guardsmen and bane wolves.

Having said that when I do take artillery my front runner is the manticore. For the armies I typically play against d3 st 10 ap 4 blasts are preferable to 1 str 9 ap 3 template of the basilisk.

I don't like the medusa as it doesn't out range anti-tank guns and has to fire directly. I haven't toyed with a colossus at all.

Raxmei wrote:A note on rules: Inability to fire directly does not affect accuracy. You only lose accuracy if you are taking advantage of a barrage weapon's ability to fire upon targets out of LOS. The most important consequences of inability to fire directly are that you can't ignore your minimum range or fire on the move.

Yes, my fault,i didn't get that properly when i read the rulebook.

makr wrote:I personally only use Manticores - D3 S10 large blasts will dominate hordes, and if you come up against MEQ then you can go for their vehicles - these are one of the few long-ranged weapons Land Raiders fear, or chance instant-deathing some expensive HQ units that might fail their save. Because it can fire indirectly, you can hit side armor on things like Ork Battlewagons to easily kill them (I swear, this weapon seems to have been made just for fighting Orks). Plus, they come standard with Enclosed Crew Compartment so they're not as vulnerable.

If I were to take more traditional artillery, I'd go with the basilisk. Indirect S9 is great against vehicles, and AP3 instant death against most units is excellent. Collusus is too specialized for my tastes and I don't like the fact that you essentially have to use Medusas as frontline tanks.

I would use Griffons in smaller games (750 and lower), but in higher points when I can afford more Manticores - why?

This.

I either run 2x manticore and 3x hydras or 3x manticores in every serious tourney list. They kill land raiders, they kill grots and everything in between, with an impossibly long range.

To my mind, the only big guns worth taking are the manticore, medusa and deathstrike (yes really, I'll explain). Most of the artillery choices have at least one major problem.

Basilisk - a little of everything, not enough of anything. S9? Can't instakill T5, isn't reliable against armor 14. AP3? Terminators still get their armor saves, marines often get cover. It's just not really good at anything and for 10 points more expensive you get the medusa, which is waaaay better.

Colossus - minimum range, can't fire direct

Griffon - for a little less than two of these jerks, you could have a valkyrie with MRPs and heavy bolters. More dakka. More speed. More meltagun toting psychos in the cargo bay. They're also the same price as hydras, and I'd almost always want to have more hydras than a griffon or two.

The manticore and medusas are good for obvious reasons - strength 10, and either good AP or multiple shots + indirect fire. For high points games I would take medusas, since you can get 3 for one HS slot.

Deathstrike missile launchers suck balls by themselves. You take one, it gets wiped by the bottom of turn 2. You take 3 though... until they are all destroyed, your opponent won't shoot at anything else on the board. Period. His whole world will be taking out the missiles before they fire. That's 480 points for fire immunity for the other 1200ish of your army, and if one of them does go off you can expect about a quarter of his army to evaporate.

It's silly. It's effective. It requires you to build your whole army around it.

Bottom line though - manticores, medusas.

My 1,850 tournament list fields two Manticores, and a squad of two Griffons.

The Manticore is the best HS choice in the codex. The Griffon's "Accurate Bombardment" and Str 6 means that they can almost always cause an unsaved wound, which means a -1 LD pinning check. It also has great synergy with "Weaken Resolve." However, it's possible that I would replace my Griffons with Hydras in a world of unlimited time and / or money.

Manticore/s backed up by a few leman russes. The russes absorb firepower & the Manticore spews it back out again.

grankobot wrote:

Deathstrike missile launchers suck balls by themselves. You take one, it gets wiped by the bottom of turn 2. You take 3 though... until they are all destroyed, your opponent won't shoot at anything else on the board. Period. His whole world will be taking out the missiles before they fire. That's 480 points for fire immunity for the other 1200ish of your army, and if one of them does go off you can expect about a quarter of his army to evaporate.

Focus two Railguns on it Turn 1, Drop a Drop Pod next to it, there are a variety of sensible ways around this strategy.

Basilisks for the win! I run a trio of them in my tournament list and I have never been disappointed. They are so well rounded it doesn't matter who I am fighting, basilisks are going to rain on their parade.

Che-Vito wrote:

grankobot wrote:

Deathstrike missile launchers suck balls by themselves. You take one, it gets wiped by the bottom of turn 2. You take 3 though... until they are all destroyed, your opponent won't shoot at anything else on the board. Period. His whole world will be taking out the missiles before they fire. That's 480 points for fire immunity for the other 1200ish of your army, and if one of them does go off you can expect about a quarter of his army to evaporate.

Focus two Railguns on it Turn 1, Drop a Drop Pod next to it, there are a variety of sensible ways around this strategy.

I didn't say that it was THE BETS STARTEGY EVAR!1!11!1, just that deathstrikes do work well if you take them in numbers. Deathstrike lists are "rock" armies that are easily countered by opponents who have the tools to take them out early (either deep striking armies or something with high mobility + long range firepower) but would absolutely dsetroy lists that can't.

That's more than can be said for things like the basilisk, which are mediocre no matter how you choose to field them.

Here's a post worth reading regarding the deathstrikes: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php/topic,87977.0.html

grankobot wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

grankobot wrote:

Deathstrike missile launchers suck balls by themselves. You take one, it gets wiped by the bottom of turn 2. You take 3 though... until they are all destroyed, your opponent won't shoot at anything else on the board. Period. His whole world will be taking out the missiles before they fire. That's 480 points for fire immunity for the other 1200ish of your army, and if one of them does go off you can expect about a quarter of his army to evaporate.

Focus two Railguns on it Turn 1, Drop a Drop Pod next to it, there are a variety of sensible ways around this strategy.

I didn't say that it was THE BETS STARTEGY EVAR!1!11!1, just that deathstrikes do work well if you take them in numbers. Deathstrike lists are "rock" armies that are easily countered by opponents who have the tools to take them out early (either deep striking armies or something with high mobility + long range firepower) but would absolutely dsetroy lists that can't.

That's more than can be said for things like the basilisk, which are mediocre no matter how you choose to field them.

Here's a post worth reading regarding the deathstrikes: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php/topic,87977.0.html

It is a good strategy, just seems like it's effective against poor lists or poor players. (which doesn't make it unviable, just means you have to be very careful with it's use.)

Basilisks are most useful in games that use boards with lots of terrain, or boards larger than 6x4. Their range can be put to terrifying use, and indirect fire (especially when it cannot be returned) can be quite annoying/intimidating.

How do you stop some mean mother-humper from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? You a basilisk. And if that don't work use more basilisk