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Hey guys,


I'm looking over my army list, which is mostly a static gunline with a Demolisher with plasma cannon sponsoons at the centre (mostly as a fire magnet). The list relies on a HWS with LCs and a LC-armed Valkyrie with Veteran Guardsmen with meltaguns... Anyway, since the valkyrie is obviously fairly vulnerable and the veterans one-use (they'll get splatted after they unleash their salvo I imagine) I need to have a contigency... 3 BS3 LCs with squishy guardsmen crew don't seem to me to be the best backup AT... so I am wondering if I should replace them with a pair of scout sentinels that can scout up and try eliminate enemy armour? I am wondering if they'd have better survivability? Should they be armoured sentinels? How would armoured sentinels fare?

if you can think of any AT option within 120 points, please contribute, I am fairly stumped...

autocannon heavy weapon teams

plenty of light anti-tank, you'd be suprised how much damage 6 st7 shots with "bring it down"
(twin-linked) can do to av 11 and 12, for dirt cheap as well.


Vendettas are much better at being fire support then dropping off veterans.

use it to sit at the back and pop tanks.

definitley stray away from the valk though...suiciding veterans only works in an alpha strike list.

Heh well if ACs are really good enough each of my infantry squads have one

Though that means wasting lasgun shots.

You think I should have a dedicated AC squad? What if they have a landraider?!

Autocannons are only better than lascannons against AV10, AV11, and hordes.

It's better to pay the extra 10 points to give your Guardsmen a larger threat range - by the same reasoning you might choose to give SM sergeants power fists as opposed to power swords (I'm not sure if you do this, just giving an SM example).

Anyhow, for 120 points, the best choice is probably to up your Guardsmen to lascannons. I honestly don't see why it is that people are so quick to recommend autocannons as an all-rounder, when, against, lascannons are only worse against hordes, AV10 and 11.

autocannon to lascannon maybe not neccesarily better.

but in points.

you can take two lascannons for every 3 autocannons

we haven't really seen his list so i assumed he was sane and threw in some melta weapons SOMEWHERE

I mean, in infantry squads.

An infantry squad with lascannon is 70, with autocannon is 60.

It's my opinion that HWS' are never worth taking because of how vulnerable they are (3 expensive models that are instant death'd by S6) - unless you're a fan of mortars and can keep them out of LOS.



Anyway, if you have points left over you can try scout sentinels with autocannon - outflanking S7 can really be painful, and, even if less effective than a lascannon against the fairly common side AV12.

Don't put LCs on Inf. Squads, bad idea. Only take them on HWS. My reasoning is that on your basic guard infantry, they should be adaptable, I like a GL & Autocannon pair. They can take care of horde, and transports.

Don't worry about losing some flashlights.

A HWS w/ 3 Lascannons, providing atleast one hits, is going to do something against that trukk/rhino/raider/waveserpent, and can still penetrate a landraider on a 6. I run two squads with lascannons, simply because I cannot let my opponent get into CC.

makr wrote:Autocannons are only better than lascannons against AV10, AV11, and hordes.

It's better to pay the extra 10 points to give your Guardsmen a larger threat range - by the same reasoning you might choose to give SM sergeants power fists as opposed to power swords (I'm not sure if you do this, just giving an SM example).

Anyhow, for 120 points, the best choice is probably to up your Guardsmen to lascannons. I honestly don't see why it is that people are so quick to recommend autocannons as an all-rounder, when, against, lascannons are only worse against hordes, AV10 and 11.

I have to agree, ACs are only better against light armor. I also have to agree that fists are better than power weapons (S3 v S6 is a huge difference for 5pts when you are already spending 10), but you can't give them to regular infantry sergeants, unfortunately. However, I will disagree that las > AC because frankly... there are more hordes (that's why they call them hordes ) and Av12 and under than there are Av13 and 14. There will always be more light armor than heavy, so bringing ACs is always a good choice. Not to mention cheaper than Las.

makr wrote:I mean, in infantry squads.

An infantry squad with lascannon is 70, with autocannon is 60.

It's my opinion that HWS' are never worth taking because of how vulnerable they are (3 expensive models that are instant death'd by S6) - unless you're a fan of mortars and can keep them out of LOS.



Anyway, if you have points left over you can try scout sentinels with autocannon - outflanking S7 can really be painful, and, even if less effective than a lascannon against the fairly common side AV12.

Have to disagree on the HWS. HWSs are awesome. Put them behind your lines, put them in cover, hide them on points on your table edge. Then order them to BiD. Do that every turn with a set of lascannon. Watch your enemy fracture as their armor is wrecked over and over. They are squishy, so give them cover. Protect them. But you simply will not get that kind of firepower anywhere else.

As for Mortars, oddly enough... they are looking better and better to me. Read the rules on multiple barrages, and then read the section in the attacking vehicles about barrage. To sum up, multiple barrages clump, so they have very good accuracy and barrage weapons always hit side armor. S6 versus side armor is actually really good. Consider that S6 can hit up to Av12. You have 3 shots, and if you roll a few hits, you can make sure they land where you want them to. Then consider that where lots of people have high front armor, most do not have high side armor. I want to say 90% of the vehicles in the game have 12 or less side armor. Silly as it sounds, Mortars can hit that.

I will definately endorse a squad of 3 scout sentinels with AC. Brought them to an Apoc game once. You should have seen the face of a Tau player with all his precious floating blueberry tanks scrambling to defend from 6 AC rounds being fired point blank into their rear armor. I honestly can't think of a better function for scout sentinels than this. Now granted, I also had a Russ outflank with them (Hurr, hurr...) but the sentinels definately did more damage over all. The russ just sat there and ate shots while the sentinels used it as Av14 cover. Basically the Russ just kept the sentinels alive for 3 turns... letting them wipe out the Tau's backline. BUT if you want to outflank with a Russ I definately recommend that too. HAHA.

Karon wrote:Don't put LCs on Inf. Squads, bad idea. Only take them on HWS. My reasoning is that on your basic guard infantry, they should be adaptable, I like a GL & Autocannon pair. They can take care of horde, and transports.

Don't worry about losing some flashlights.

A HWS w/ 3 Lascannons, providing atleast one hits, is going to do something against that trukk/rhino/raider/waveserpent, and can still penetrate a landraider on a 6. I run two squads with lascannons, simply because I cannot let my opponent get into CC.

If you are only going to be fighting horde, you need HBs ore Mortars. ACs are really best for Mechanized armies.

As for adapting, I feel the exact opposite. Barring 500pt games where you need to be able to do everything with only a few options... you save points by specializing squads, which allows you to take more firepower for the points you spend. Having all of your units being able to do everything only makes it so your whole army is only ok at facing the things that actually attack them. Whereas specializing lets you be strong against your opponent, as long as you are a good tactician and can keep your army dynamic and able to answer with the proper responses. For this reason, I recommend mobile armies. I generally take a lot of fast units, and transports, accompanied by long range fire support like HWS and vets with heavy weapons.

*Edit* Cause I'm slowed.

I agree with what Lt Lathrop says, except about mortars - they have S4 not S6, so are genuinely useless against vehicles.

Aw feth all... I botched that up nicely. I need to start wearing glasses when I read my rulebooks. Thanks for the correction.