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The common Eldar Jetbike Seer Council probably one of their best units and can survive a lot. Any competitive list probably has 1 or even 2 jetbike council flying around giving lesser elegant armies the finger.

However its also incredibly expensive points-wise and money wise (You need a lot of green stuff, time, skill, and buy seperate jetbikes and seperate warlocks to cut & mesh together)

I already own a shining spear squad of 5 with an Jetbike autarch and since a Jetbike Farseer is an independent character couldn't it join this squad to make it a squad of 7 (5 spears, 1 Autarch, 1 Farseer)? Also considering shining spears are a even harder-hitting units than Warlocks (esp. with the Autarch) and the Farseer would still have Runes of Warding and Fortune in addition to doom wouldn't it still carry all the advantages of a regular jetbike Warlock Council?

This will also allow me to free up a bunch of points for a regular guardian jetbike squad that can go around scoring and flick the odd unit off with their shuriken cannons.

Thoughts? Any help would really be appreciated, who needs warlocks anyway when you have shining spears led by an Autarch?

I've seen it done, but it has a couple of issues:

1. Shining Spears aren't really cheaper than warlocks, in terms of points.
2. They only hit hard the turn they assault. After that they're meat.
3. They're not as good as warlocks against vehicles; most specifically AV14 and Walkers.
4. They can't get flamer template powers or morale re-rolls.

No inv save on spears and low model count.
IMO, the discussion dies there.

Expanding, the council does what it does because it maximizes Fortune and can take almost anything to the face.

Spears are limited a great deal by lacking an Inv save. In addition they have no viablility in second round combats.

Lack of Enhance and Embolden as well.
Anti-tank is not as good.
Don't have the same number of attacks as the council...

In addition, they fill different roles, so they don't really 'replace' each other, but IMO the Shining Spears are still a huge step down if you had the choice between the two.

Ok, so it'll be much tricker to use properly.

But just to be prefectly clear it is perfectly legal to add the jetbike Farseer to the 5 man shining spear squad plus the Autarch for a total of 7 man squad right?

Legal.
But you lose the ability to hit and run (assuming you buy it) if you have a farseer attached.

Sanctjud wrote:Legal.
But you lose the ability to hit and run (assuming you buy it) if you have a farseer attached.

How? Would I lose the ability to hit and run with the Autarch as well?

Autarch has his own special rules allowing him to benefit from almost all Exarch powers (infiltrate excepted).

But the Farseer has no special rules on that issue.
If you look in the BRB, I believe Hit and Run has a star after it, meaning Units with the USR lose it if an IC that joins them does not have the same USR.

Jetbike autarch and since a Jetbike Farseer is an independent character couldn't it join this squad to make it a squad of 7 (5 spears, 1 Autarch, 1 Farseer)?

You meant an Exarch, rather than an Autarch, right, because an Autarch and Farseer could not join the same squad since they are both independent characters.

WraithgodSchmity wrote:

You meant an Exarch, rather than an Autarch, right, because an Autarch and Farseer could not join the same squad since they are both independent characters.

This is false. Any number of ICs can join a squad (unless the squad or ICs have rules preventing this)

@WraithgodSchmity:

Are you serious?
Please give us a page number to back that up.
I am 100% certain it's the other way around, they can BOTH join the squad.

Sorry, just looked up the rule.

I did just find this in the rulebook though:

When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit.

Taken from page 48 of the rulebook.

The Autarch has no special rules allowing him to benefit from almost all Exarch Powers. He simply benefits from those powers that are not disrupted by having an Independent Character join the Aspect Warrior unit.

Infiltrate and Hit And Run, for example, are both Universal Special Rules with asterisks, meaning that they are lost if an Independent Character without the rule joins the unit.

But back to Shining Spears.

Firstly, you should almost never stick around for a second round of combat. You get your S6 Lance shots, your S6 Power Weapon hits, and then you Hit And Run. If you assault with this unit, make sure you assault in combination with another unit, such as Wraithguard, or a Wraithlord, or one of the infantry Aspects. Either the unit you're assault is already in combat, or will be in combat with another unit once the Spears leave. It's just as important to have Skilled Rider (all Independent Characters have Skilled Rider, incidentally) so that your Spears can go anywhere at anytime (well, until the Exarch buys it).

So, secondly, no it is not wise to try and use a unit of Shining Spears like a Jetbike Council, because the two units have very different roles. By all means use the Shining Spears to assist such a unit, but whereas the Jetbike Council is large and expensive hammer, the Shining Spears are moreso a small and expensive spear - use it to assist other units in developing and controlling the game.

@Nurglitch:

Your first part is not accurate. The Autarch CAN benefit from hit and run, just no infiltrate.
The rules for that are on a stupid page away from the Autarch and Shining Spears, I think before the the unit descriptions or before the points cost...there's some fluff under the actual rules section.

I'll be home at 6:30ish to get that page number, I'm pretty sure it's there.
_______________________________

You can hit and run right after you charge, but (as you describe) need a hammer and anvil situation. Which is not always the case.
Hitting and runnin in YOUR combat phase is IMO, not healthy in the following enemy shooting phase.

Hitting and runnin in YOUR combat phase is IMO, not healthy in the following enemy shooting phase.

It certainly depends on the situation.

If you assault with this unit, make sure you assault in combination with another unit, such as Wraithguard, or a Wraithlord, or one of the infantry Aspects.

I definitely like this idea. It could also work well with a small number of Guardian Jetbikes.

Guadian jetbikes are not exactly Anvils like Nurglitch was suggesting.
Can GJB work, yes, but they are pretty squishy themselves... Though it's not too much of a problem when the Spears mauled the squad already.

@ Nurglitch and Sanctjud:

It is in a stupid place.

page 21 wrote:
Note that exarch powers can only ever affect Aspect Warriors and Autarchs in the same squad as the Exarch using them...

Now that's fine and dandy, but I don't feel my rule-fu is strong enough to rule on whether that means 'Autarchs benefit from exarch powers as if they were a member of the squad' or just that 'exarch powers that can affect ICs only affect autarchs'.

Thoughts?

Farseers are much less close combat specialized than an Autarch and so I wouldn't think that an Exarch's powers would confer to a Farseer. That's my opinion anyways.

Okay, so it turns out I was right, that Autarch's don't have a special rule allowing them to use Exarch powers, but I was also wrong and the rules governing Exarch powers allow them to use Exarch powers.

So you can stick an Autarch in a unit of Shining Spears. Still doesn't change the fact that they need to be hitting and running, and constantly charging the enemy, settling prior combats, and initiating new ones - they'll just do it better (and more expensively) with an Autarch.

Well, I'd consider 5 Shining Spears incl. an Exarch with withdraw,
joined by an Autarch on jetbike w/ laser lance.
Consider adding a Jetseer with fortune.

@Wuestenfux's Build:
I think the Fusion Gun is a good buy if points remain.

Though...sucks if they get caught by something like: Wind/Breath of Chaos, Medusa? with the AP3 cover ignore, IG Chem-Cannon.