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after reading the rules I noted these:

1. to shoot, squad 'x' must not be in close-combat.
2. To shoot, squad 'x' must be able to use TLOS to see his target.
3. vehichles sight from their weapons.
4. scenario Squad 'a' is an ork boyz squad.
Squad 'x' is a SM predator.
situation: ork assault turn, squads A assault Squad X.
in this situation, nothing is destroyed, but the tank is immobilised. (for scenarios sake.)
during the comming shooting turn, the predator can see all of the squad through each of it's weapons.

Question: even though he does not count as being in close-combat, is he allowed to shoot all weapons, assuming none have minimum range
Question: assuming it’s the same squad, is the predator allowed to fire with both sponsons, even though it can’t see what the other is firing with?

Vehicles are never locked in combat, so anything that assaults a vehicle is eligible to be shot at by anything that can see them.

Not sure what you're asking in the second question.

after an assault with a vehicle that does not get destroyed you must move 1" away from said vehicle.. unless the vehicle has a weapon skill.. like dreads, kans, ect

So your tank is unengaged after his assault phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
your tank only needs to be able to see a member of the squad.. so yes.. you can see a member with each sponson. you can shoot them..

Models that assault a vehicle do not move 1" away, they remain in base contact (but do not count as engaged).

The only time you need to move away is if you did a multi assault & need to consolidate into combat. If you only assault a vehicle you get to hit the vehicle again on your opponents assault phase if still touching vehicle.

I think this covers your first question.
Page 63, main rules:
Enemy models that are in base contact with a vehicle are not locked in combat and can therefore be shot during the Shooting phase. Also covers the rule that they no longer move an inch away from the vehicle and do indeed stay in base contact.

2nd Question, I think you're asking if both weapons can fire even tho they cannot see any models in common? If so, yes, they can. All that is required is for each weapon on the vehicle to see at least one model in the target unit, regardless of whether that model can be seen by any other weapons.

Vehicles are never locked in combat, so any weapons that can see, so not a sponsoon on the other side of the tank, can fire at them (as long as there are no minimum ranges).

Q1. If the Vehicle does not have a WS, it cannot be locked in combat so at the begining of each players turn, both usits you described can be shot at by opposing players if they have LOS. The Vehicle also hasn't moved due to being imobilsed so will be allowed to shoot the maximum amount of weapons allowed as per the rulebook for that vehicle type. Amusing thats a tank it should be one main weapon and all defensive weapons.

Q2. If a weapon can draw line of sight from it to an enemy model of the same squad, and is also allowed to shoot that particular weapon(s) then yes, all your weapons can shoot at that squad

HellsGuardian316 wrote:
Q2. If a weapon can draw line of sight from it to an enemy model of the same squad, and is also allowed to shoot that particular weapon(s) then yes, all your weapons can shoot at that squad

Each weapon in a vehicle needs LOS. For example, if I assault the left side of your predator and immobilize & weapon destroy the left HB, you can't shoot me with the predator your shooting phase, because 1 I am on the opposite side of the working HB, and 2 I am underneath the barrels of your turret. Another example, If I am assaulting the same tank, from the front and am more on the left side and do nothing; then you can only shoot me with the turret and left HB.

rednekgunner wrote:

HellsGuardian316 wrote:
Q2. If a weapon can draw line of sight from it to an enemy model of the same squad, and is also allowed to shoot that particular weapon(s) then yes, all your weapons can shoot at that squad

Each weapon in a vehicle needs LOS. For example, if I assault the left side of your predator and immobilize & weapon destroy the left HB, you can't shoot me with the predator your shooting phase, because 1 I am on the opposite side of the working HB, and 2 I am underneath the barrels of your turret. Another example, If I am assaulting the same tank, from the front and am more on the left side and do nothing; then you can only shoot me with the turret and left HB.

makes perfect sense

and is completely right..

The sponson part certainly but under the barrels of your turret? That just sounds freaky to me. It would make it next to impossible to shoot anything with a bassy or whierlwind or any artillery. "This smells funny, and I'm not eating it."

He meant literally standing underneath the barrel.

Is that even covered in the rules?

In a bassy you can shoot point blank range if you have LOS. LOS is measured from the tip. Surely you can measure a straight line from the tip of the gun to a unit standing underneath it? Surely? Unless there is a specific rule against (please tell me if there is, I can stop my friends artillery) then it would seem fine and dandy to me.

If a model is underneath the barrel, it's behind the tip.

It's also not a very common situation.

It doesn't say anywhere you HAVE to measure forward does it? I am looking at this from a purely RAW situation as I am aware that it is ridiculous to shoot behind the barrel of a gun.

I just want the rules on this and as far as I know you can shoot under the barrel of a turret as long as you can get LOS in any direction from the tip.

How can you point at something behind you?

Madgod wrote:It doesn't say anywhere you HAVE to measure forward does it?

Have a read of the 'Vehicle Weapons & Line of Sight' section on page 58.

LOS for vehicle weapons is traced from the weapon mounting along the barrel. So a model standing directly underneath the barrel is out of LOS.

Quick, everyone begin cutting down the barrels on all their turret guns! Bullpup config for everyone!! Hurrr!!1!

This really should be one of those fairly obvious, even to the uninitiated, sorts of things. If you can't see him down the barrel he's safe. I really can see a couple of guys having a mini-brawl at a tourney because of it though.

Mind you, from a conceptual standpoint it's not actually all that consistent from GW. Long barrels on stuff would seem to be very much in the "don't count as part of the model" range of accessories, and as such it's interesting that we're all so very willing to make them 1:1 representational in this case, when that's not exactly how the game is usually played. If something doesn't count as hit when it's under a template then it probably shouldn't be used for measuring range or anything else either (like under-barrel LOS).

Most weapons are also considered to have 45 degree vertical "swing" so it would be hard to completely hide from the barrel on a predator.