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I'm suprised by SM players.

I mean, you're a bolter wielding soldier, you get 2 hits from 12" if you don't assault

Problem: squad 'A' consists of 10 basic marines 'b' doesn't matter

if 'A' moves in 6" (to a total of say, 4" between them.) to assault that squad it may NOT use it's bolters.

instead, it may fire bolt- pistols.

meaning, it will only get 10 assault 1 (pistol) shots.

what this means is that you have to either shoot rapid fire (14-20 attacks) or assault and shoot pistols (10 attacks plus up to 20 assault attacks.)

this is a stupid rule, I agree. 'fired from the hip' really should be like -1 Bs or somthing, but it means that you must shoot pistols if you wish to assault

unless, of course you're relentless.

I'm not seeing a rules question here. Moving to Proposed rules.

My fix for Space Marines (primarily Tacticals) would be for them to have Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Combat Blade (a.k.a. uber-grit) and also allow them to fire an extra shot with their bolters when stationary (as they could in second edition) so either 3 shots at close range, or 2 at 24, rather like IG, but without needing to be told to, you know,...shoot.

Jack

no, they can only carry 2 weapons

they can also only fire one weapon PT (5th ed)

thanks for the comment though.

There are no restrictions with regards to how many weapons anyone can carry in the recent codexes, Captain Solon. You are, for the umpteenth time, incorrect.

Space Wolf Grey Hunters and Chaos Marines in particular are armed with a Bolter, Bolt Pistol and a close combat weapon.

Jackmojo wrote:My fix for Space Marines (primarily Tacticals) would be for them to have Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Combat Blade (a.k.a. uber-grit) and also allow them to fire an extra shot with their bolters when stationary (as they could in second edition) so either 3 shots at close range, or 2 at 24, rather like IG, but without needing to be told to, you know,...shoot.

Jack

So.. you think Space Marines are weak and need an extra shot??? WTF mate?

Jackmojo wrote:My fix for Space Marines (primarily Tacticals) would be for them to have Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Combat Blade (a.k.a. uber-grit) and also allow them to fire an extra shot with their bolters when stationary (as they could in second edition) so either 3 shots at close range, or 2 at 24, rather like IG, but without needing to be told to, you know,...shoot.

Jack

I agree with kuro_khan that is just madness. YOu already get enough combat squadding and heavy weps for free anyway. When CSM get free heavies and specials then you can have our extra CC weapon.
Also bolters with three shots? Why? Sounds like another SM player under the false impression that they need MORE going for them. Bolters are good as they are. If you want an extra shot pay 10pts for a heavy and don't move.

i think the idea behind them only being rapid fire is that they are big dam guns. sure they are basicly the m16 of the space marines but its gotta have alot kick.
IF they change that then they would ahve to change plasma guns too, and then they would have to look at the other armies codexes and find all their rapid fire weps and change them around, or just have it noted in a new editon of the core rule book that Rapid fire weps are just like assult weps now. (im not 100% sure if there are any rapid fire weps other than plasma guns and bolters but then again i havent memorized all the codes)

kuro_khan wrote:
So.. you think Space Marines are weak and need an extra shot??? WTF mate?

Yep pretty much, the basic tactical marine is a fair bit weaker then like points of other troops, this also carries over to the assault and the devastator as well, since they run off the same base stats.

Three Guardsmen or three Orks are generally better, allowing the Space Marines some of the old rules that helped them be qualitatively better would help balance out their numeric inferiority more.

Madgod wrote:When CSM get free heavies and specials then you can have our extra CC weapon.
Also bolters with three shots? Why? Sounds like another SM player under the false impression that they need MORE going for them. Bolters are good as they are. If you want an extra shot pay 10pts for a heavy and don't move.

The bonus shot thing I would imagine being applied to all the Marines (perhaps not cultists with other goofiness but at least Havocs and CSM) as they suffer from the same general weakness versus liek costs of other troops.

I understand where my point of view might seem odd, but it all boils down to knowing there is a reason you don't see Marine armies built around their troops, but rather with their focus being on hard hitting elites or heavy support, and I'd like to see an option/rules that supports power armored guys with bolters as a primary focus of the army.

Jack

Arctik_Firangi wrote:There are no restrictions with regards to how many weapons anyone can carry in the recent codexes, Captain Solon. You are, for the umpteenth time, incorrect.

I'm with Firangi on this one, Solon. It's balanced for game purposes, and you can carry as many weapons as you can pay for.