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Dracon,agoniser,shadowfield,pistol = 81 pts

8x wychs = 104 pts raider 55 pts

Or

3 incubi
2 warriors = 101

240 pts

10x warriors 2 dark lances = 100 pts
10x warriors 2 dark lances = 100 pts
10x warriors 2 dark lances = 100 pts
10x warriors 2 dark lances = 100 pts

Ravager,3 disses = 120 pts
Ravager,3 disses = 120 pts
Ravager,3 disses = 120 pts


Trying to go for as much fire power as i can,this list is obviously weak against hordes but i had it in mind to destroy MEQ lists,should i ditch a wych and get some horrorfexs ?.

I don't think i will give up my Ravagers they have been the bane of most armies,i've wiped marine players off the board with these things and got called cheese for running them,i would run some gunboats but being simply on 1000 pts i don't have enough points,and giving up ravagers would mean i have even poor anti-horde weapons.

You're only giong to see so much 'horde' at 1000 points, and you do have the rest fo the non-DL toting footsloggers to shoot. If your ravagers are rocking templates (which they usually do) I think you'll be fine.

If you're concerned you could always make room for a flamer or two out the wargear section on a Haemuculous. (if I'm recalling the who can have what from the DE armoury corrcetly)

At 1000 points I think that looks rather beasty. I would not enjoy facing that with my 1k mech orks AT ALL.

Aztralwolf wrote:At 1000 points I think that looks rather beasty. I would not enjoy facing that with my 1k mech orks AT ALL.

Lol,thanks.

Would like some opinions on if to run 8xwychs or 3 incubi 2 warriors ?.

I'm not a DE player, but I do get to play against then. I would say wyche's, my reason being to deal with threats like wolf scouts, and especially snikrot. From an orkish perspective on a small table as used in 1k games, snikrot could lierally win me the game by dealing with you lances. By having a squad such as wyche's that can REALLY bog down CC, you would be better off. They bog it down and the lord wins your combats with all the death he can put out.
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The only other advice I would have is to maybe go with the vect build ravagers so that you anti tank isn't only on foot.

I like it, and advise the Wyches. Why? Simply put, your lord isn't kitted out to go toe to toe with big combat specialist units. If he's got an agaonizer, he's a monstrous creature/combat hero assassin. Therefore the rest of the unit should be assassins too.

Ketara wrote:I like it, and advise the Wyches. Why? Simply put, your lord isn't kitted out to go toe to toe with big combat specialist units. If he's got an agaonizer, he's a monstrous creature/combat hero assassin. Therefore the rest of the unit should be assassins too.

Because i need a unit that can counter- assault.

Reason for agonisers is because i find them to be superior to punishers,wychs tend to have a hard time dealing wounds to high toughness units,this is why my dracon has a agoniser,although i am considering dropping the shadowfield and buy a succabus with agoniser aswell...

I take the Wych unit unless you take a unit of Incubi, no Warriors.
Warriors will die easily and they our precious HQ might start running away.

wuestenfux wrote:I take the Wych unit unless you take a unit of Incubi, no Warriors.
Warriors will die easily and they our precious HQ might start running away.

I could always drop the shadowfield to get 5 incubi hmm...

I'd go for the Wyches.
However, I'd give them Wych weapons so that they can target HQs and MCs, if necessary.

wuestenfux wrote:I'd go for the Wyches.
However, I'd give them Wych weapons so that they can target HQs and MCs, if necessary.

I gave them wych weapons ;-;

Okay, then it looks good.
Let the Wyches accompany the Dracon who makes most of the damage.
A Succubus with agonizer would be nice.

wuestenfux wrote:Okay, then it looks good.
Let the Wyches accompany the Dracon who makes most of the damage.
A Succubus with agonizer would be nice.

Yes,its just finding the points to get that.

Hmm...5 incubi looks tempting and would be good against most assault troops.

Well, you could at least take 4 Incubi for 100 pts.

You're obligated for 5 minimum in your Retinue.

Overall the list has promise. As currently presented I believe the Wyches will serve you better then the Incubi/Warrior retinue.

I will caution, that without a combat drug dispenser a Dracon with Agoniser is really not that much more dangerous then a Succubus with Agoniser. I might recommend dropping the Dracon and giving your Wych squad a Succubus w. Agoniser. You can then take a Scissorhand/Destructor Haemy (and Scissorhand is very optional) for your HQ and have him ride with the Wyches as an additional tool to help deal with horde (don't have him charge with the Wyches, leave him behind with the Raider when they rush off).

Also you might want to (if you have the Raider models) convert some of your sniper squads into mini sniper squads (5 man Raider squad with Lance) this gives you a 2 lance unit that can fire at two different targets and offers more tactical flexibility then a 10 man footslogging squad. You could get the points for this very easily by simply dropping one Wych off your Wych squad (8 Wyches is overkill at 1000 points in my opinion, as they are primarially going to be used to tarpit and rip up the toughest h2h threat that isn't shredded by lances)

why is 8 wyches overkill? and why do you use one of the most broken cc units to tarpit? seriously, I give up talos, homunculi, and grotesques, as well as my warriors (save for one unit in higher pt games) just to get more wyches, they are absolute beasts, they can have a ten man squad get to the enemy lines on turn one and then say "sorry, your phoenix lord is now Ws 4" plus the blasters (or shredders if you like). if you cover or combat the one problem they have is nullified (6+ armor), and on top of that, every single thing on the combat drugs are pretty sweet. why is 8 wyches overkill?

Do you not own at least 4 more raiders?


For 5 points more on each squad you can mount them up in raiders.


Also you should drop a wyche or two to make room for a succubus with an agoniser.

To free up the last points I would Vect the ravagers. That way you can move 12" or 6" and fire everything.

Completed army looks like this:

1000 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster

1 Dracon @ 87 pts (Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades)

4 Wyches @ 148 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Plasma Grenades (Squad))
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

1 Ravager @ 115 pts (Dark Lance x1; Disentegrator x2)

1 Ravager @ 115 pts (Dark Lance x1; Disentegrator x2)

1 Ravager @ 115 pts (Dark Lance x1; Disentegrator x2)

Total Roster Cost: 1000

BIBBI wrote:why is 8 wyches overkill? and why do you use one of the most broken cc units to tarpit?

I go into this in my DE Tactica and Stregica but here's a quick breakdown;

Your average Wych has 1 attack base. 3 Str. 3 toughness. And has a weapon that allows armor saves and you want me to act as though they are the ultimate in h2h killyness? They are not. A Tactical Marine generates basically as much damage on the charge then a Wych does and nobody believes Tactical Marines are killing gods of war in h2h. Assault Marines are overall better then Wyches when it comes to inflicting damage (equal attacks, both have 2 h2h weapons, and the Marine has better Str so will inflict more wounds), and everybody talks about how inferior Assault Marines are in the world of h2h units as well.

However, Wyches do have a 4++ save in h2h combat, that makes them very hard to damage. Their Wych Weapons wargear also reduces the number of attacks on them and reduces the WS of an opponent swinging on them. This makes Wyches hard to injure in h2h.

So, the average Wych does not generate a lot of damage, but is quite difficult to damage back. To my mind this makes the Wych unit a tarpit unit. Now, Wyches do have a nice addition of adding in a power weapon to their tarpit unit (Space Marines can add power weapons too, but they are not quite as survivable as Wyches in h2h combat which is where the Wyches start to take the lead). They get a quite nice power weapon in the Agoniser and it transforms the unit into a tarpit unit that wins combats as opposed to a tarpit unit that just lingers (like certain Nurgle units). So, therefore, if your goal is to inflict damage with your Wyches you add a Succubus with an Agonizer, not more Wyches, for optimal gain.

That's why I refer to them as a tarpit unit.

seriously, I give up talos, homunculi, and grotesques, as well as my warriors (save for one unit in higher pt games) just to get more wyches

I presume you mean 2 units of Warriors to meet FoC obligations. Also, I will note, if you like Wyches so much it's possible to build some very competitive Wyche Cult builds at 1000 points. I personally feel Wyche Cult does better then Kabal at very low point levels as there is generally less armor on the board, which is one of the Cult's big weaknesses.

why is 8 wyches overkill?

At this point level I feel that 8 wyches is more wyches then you'll need to help you kill whatever you end up fighting. At 1850 I usually field my Wyches in 5-8 man squads, and at 1000 I see no particular gain to taking 3 more Wyches when the point savings could be put towards additional Raiders or other tools that are much more potent then a few more Wych Str 3 attacks in h2h combat. In objective missions, for instance, your army will have a lot of difficulty getting troops to objectives on the other side of the map. However, if you take less Wyches and add in some Raiders you can now claim or contest objectives very easily on the last turn or two without causing a significant change in how well the Wych squad will be able to kill enemy units. That's why I feel it's the more competitive choice.

Clthomps wrote:1 Dracon @ 87 pts (Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades)

I disagree with this build. Without combat drugs (or I guess Animus) to get Str 5 the Punisher T.Helm only outperforms the Agoniser versus Toughness 3 or lower troops, and the Agoniser is cheaper and vastly outperforms the Punisher versus Toughness 5 or higher troops.

Other then that it's a fine list option.

Clthomps wrote:
1 Dracon @ 87 pts (Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades)

I disagree with this build. Without combat drugs (or I guess Animus) to get Str 5 the Punisher T.Helm only outperforms the Agoniser versus Toughness 3 or lower troops, and the Agoniser is cheaper and vastly outperforms the Punisher versus Toughness 5 or higher tr
oops.

Yea that was an oversight, I made the list originally with combat drugs, but ended up 40 points over, hence the vect ravagers.

Good spot Thor!

I presume you mean 2 units of Warriors to meet FoC obligations.

no, I mean one unit of warriors, I run wyche cult most of the time because they are just that awesome

Also, I will note, if you like Wyches so much it's possible to build some very competitive Wyche Cult builds at 1000 points.

while I have no argument for this, it makes me happy as you seemed quite anti- wyche cult in your tactica (nice job on that BTW)

I personally feel Wyche Cult does better then Kabal at very low point levels as there is generally less armor on the board, which is one of the Cult's big weaknesses.

I must respectfully disagree with this, yes we are not as well equipped to deal with armor as a kabal, but the effectiveness of having two S8 AP2 lance hits and some haywire grenades on a troop assault unit cannot be denied, and they have the raider which can pop tanks quite nicely after the fun little surprise is dropped while being protected by their uber thick armor, I am dead serious, players who know of their low AV shoot the big guns at the ravagers.

I consider it more pro-Kabal then anti-Cult. I do feel the Cult suffers under 5th edition compared to older editions.

BIBBI wrote:I must respectfully disagree with this, yes we are not as well equipped to deal with armor as a kabal, but the effectiveness of having two S8 AP2 lance hits and some haywire grenades on a troop assault unit cannot be denied, and they have the raider which can pop tanks quite nicely after the fun little surprise is dropped while being protected by their uber thick armor, I am dead serious, players who know of their low AV shoot the big guns at the ravagers.

I don't think you're really disagreeing with me.

2 Blasters are okay if very short ranged anti-mech. Also, Wyches will want to disembark if they're hoping to destroy a transport vehicle so as to charge the occupants. If they fail to destroy the deal it's a big problem for them if they were setting up for the charge as now their best best is to assault with Haywire grenades, and that is only good versus some vehicles and to my mind is not an optimal spot for your Wyches as it leaves them out in the open where they can be shot at. Raiders with Lances are fine, but Wyches lack the ability to spam them as well, and you do need a high number of Lances for optimum effect. I do not suggest that Wyche Cult has no way to deal with armor, I do stand by a belief that it is one of the weaknesses of their list.

Clthomps wrote:Do you not own at least 4 more raiders?


For 5 points more on each squad you can mount them up in raiders.


Also you should drop a wyche or two to make room for a succubus with an agoniser.

To free up the last points I would Vect the ravagers. That way you can move 12" or 6" and fire everything.

Completed army looks like this:

1000 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster

1 Dracon @ 87 pts (Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades)

4 Wyches @ 148 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Plasma Grenades (Squad))
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

1 Ravager @ 115 pts (Dark Lance x1; Disentegrator x2)

1 Ravager @ 115 pts (Dark Lance x1; Disentegrator x2)

1 Ravager @ 115 pts (Dark Lance x1; Disentegrator x2)

Total Roster Cost: 1000

I own 12.

As for the list it looks alright,although its just extra KP's and more points,plus i hate mix ravagers.

Thanks for posting it though,i might give it a shot.