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Hello all! First time poster here, I normally spend my time harassing people at B&C but due to the limited nature of that site, I need some help with my Imperial Guard army and can't get it there BUT I heard good things about you guys so here I am.

Anyway, onto my questions!

1) I've reviewed some tactics online about how best to your use Command Squads and I'm leaning towards the 4x Melta or 4x Flamer squads, probably backed up by a Plasma Pistol. It sounds like the only way to use it is in a Chimera, is that the case? If you have 3+ squads Command Squads, thats alot of extra points being put into mandatory transports so I want to make sure I have to do it.

2) I don't want to use the standard Melta Vets with Vendettas or Medusa for anti-tank, instead I'd like to rely on massed Autocannons for light armor and Demolishers/Lascannons for the heavy stuff. Will that work? I figure that a few Command Squads with Melta will be a decent enough backup..

3) I'm building my Infantry squads to be anti-infantry so is the Heavy Bolter or Mortar a better choice? I haven't had alot of practice with barrage weapons so I'm not sure how useful they will be.

4) Last, is it viable to rely on multiple squads of walking/running Infantry squads for objective grabbers or do I need some sort of transport?

Thanks everyone!

1) Another use for the command squads is to keep them relatively bare-boned, so that it's not a high value target and focus on getting off orders. I would say the melta variety generally requires a chim, but a plasma squad could get away with being on foot due to its increased range. Other, cheaper ways to protect the command squads are medics, camo cloaks or carapace, and if you go that route, a chim is overkill.

2) That works, imo.

3) I personally love the mortar- cheap, pinning, and doesn't require LoS. The 5th ed. scatter and barrage rules have increased its efficiency. I've been a little meh on my HB's ever since the vehicles got tougher with 5th ed. If you have other ways to stop trannys, they are still effective against infantry. It's a bit of a question of style, I would go mortars but YMMV with either one.

4) It is viable to have footsloggers, especially accompanied by a PCS, who can issue MMM and I!, to get to and hold the objectives, and FRFSRF to increase the rate of fire. There are alot of mech lists on Dakka, and they can be effective for sure, but I run a mostly footslogging horde and always will.

Just my opinions, take what you will...

minigun762 wrote:1) I've reviewed some tactics online about how best to your use Command Squads and I'm leaning towards the 4x Melta or 4x Flamer squads, probably backed up by a Plasma Pistol. It sounds like the only way to use it is in a Chimera, is that the case? If you have 3+ squads Command Squads, thats alot of extra points being put into mandatory transports so I want to make sure I have to do it.

Yes, chimeras is the natural choice for command squads as its the best way to deliver the multiple special weapons.

minigun762 wrote:2) I don't want to use the standard Melta Vets with Vendettas or Medusa for anti-tank, instead I'd like to rely on massed Autocannons for light armor and Demolishers/Lascannons for the heavy stuff. Will that work? I figure that a few Command Squads with Melta will be a decent enough backup..

Yes, mass autocannons will work as it can keep your home objective safe, while the demolishers and chimeras go after objectives.

minigun762 wrote:3) I'm building my Infantry squads to be anti-infantry so is the Heavy Bolter or Mortar a better choice? I haven't had alot of practice with barrage weapons so I'm not sure how useful they will be.

Infantry should be use to take out tanks while tanks take out infantry. Example your infantry will have autocannons and meltaguns, while your tanks such as any leman russ or hellhound are usually good against infantry, there are obviously some exceptions such as hydras and devil dogs.

minigun762 wrote:4) Last, is it viable to rely on multiple squads of walking/running Infantry squads for objective grabbers or do I need some sort of transport?

I dont think so there are to many templates(flamers) and last charge tricks that our infantry are not as reliable at holding objectives.

CKO wrote:
Yes, chimeras is the natural choice for command squads as its the best way to deliver the multiple special weapons.
I dont think so there are to many templates(flamers) and last charge tricks that our infantry are not as reliable at holding objectives.

What about putting the PCS in a Chimera and having the infantry squads walk alongside the Chimera? Seems similar to what you see troops doing in real life and the PCS can still give out Orders through the hull and it keeps them better protected from incoming firepower, especially if they're packing the bulk of the AT weapons (Melta).

Welcome to dakka.

Platoon command squads are good for flamers. Company command are good for melta or plasma as they have BS4. Plasma pistols I don't recommended for 1 wound upgrade characters because if they die from Gets hot! you loose the boost to leadership.

Chimeras are a good way to make a mobile fighting list. Generally you either want to have at least 4 or none. Having only 1-2 chimeras makes them easy prey and juicy targets, especially if they are carrying lots of special weapons.

You can still make a good list without skimmers. You will loose some tactical flexibility and may need to take some things that aren't as points efficient. I recommend the main battle tank as its is an excellent all around tank. The biggest challenge if you do not use vendettas or hell hound variants is the 3 heavy support slots. Finding the right mix to match your infantry may take a few games.

I prefer Autocannons over heavy bolters even against infantry. I don't take Mortars in infantry squads but have occasionally used them as heavy weapons teams. Since they are barrage weapons you can place them out of harms way more often and avoid high strength instant killy weapons.

For IG objective missions there is a thread here that you may find helpful.

Some more questions I just thought of

1) Is it ever worth it to take Lascannon HWT over Autocannon ones? Considering the point difference, I would say no but Lascannons give you something to shoot at Land Raiders with.

2) What about giving basic Infantry squads Meltaguns? Sure it seems wasteful but Lasguns are totally wasted on any armor so if the enemy is hiding in a Rhino, you can atleast try to open it up with squad A so squad B can fire at it. Plus it gives some level of protection against last minute Tank Shocks.

3) Is 4 Grenade Launchers in a PCS silly? Sure its BS3 but thats still 2 S6 hits which is better then a Heavy Bolter firing and if you drop the S3 blasts, that should do a good job of thinning out a horde force.

1) Just so we're clear, whether or not to take one or the other is a matter of how your army is composed. If you need something to shoot Land Raiders with, by all means take the LC's. In the first post you said you were going to have both on the field so I'm assuming both will be. If you bring HWS's, make sure you bring enough IS's to protect them, because they are quite expensive and very squishy.

Whether or not to put one or the other in infantry squads or HWS's is a difficult question. I would say heavy weapons are safer in IS's (meatshield), while the HWS concentrates the firepower (cheaper way to get 3 weapons).

Conservative would be to put the expensive lascannons in with infantry, so you have to kill 8 guys to wound it. Also, a common tactic is to set up a 30 man blob stretched out with LC's. It can be pretty sure to get flank/unobscured shots out of one of them. Put the cheaper AC's together, so that when you lose that juicy, squishy HWS, it's not so expensive.

Balls out would be to put the LC's together, which makes sure nothing (lasguns, specials) is wasted when they fire on their primary target (vehicles). The AC's efficiently when set up with the GL in the IS, as their targets overlap. They also benefit from stretching out a blob.

I would go balls out.

2) I like the GL/AC combo. I can threaten many vehicles (including rhinos). Both boost the anti-inf of the squad as well. However I would consider a meltagun in a squad with a lascannon, to increase the high strength/AP of the squad.

3) 4 GL's in a PCS is not silly. You mention two reasons, and I would add that it keeps the cost down and gives the PCS the range to remain behind the infantry squads and still fire. If I'm pretty sure the squad will be generally static, I personally like to run it with AC/GLx2. The two weapons work well together as mentioned above, and it gives them even more range.

1) The reason I like the Autocannon & Grenade launcher combo is it is cheap and can threaten most transport vehicles. Furthermore when you fire at infantry you can do so at 24" with all the guns in your squad. Keep in mind Lascannons are not the best anti-land raider weapons in the IG armory. They are very mediocre for that purpose, especially when using BS 3. Your melta weapons and any str 10 ordinance should be your primary weapons against armor 14. If you do take las cannons though you want to have them near your CCS for the twin linked order. Sadly las cannon heavy weapons teams are pricey, but with the twin linked order aren't bad. Its just that its hard to take a 105 point las cannon team when you can get a vendetta for 130.

2) Keep in mind your opponent gets to pick his route on tank shoking. He would have to purposely drive over a metla gunner to give him the chance for death or glory. That to me is a pretty narrow consideration for taking one. I like to keep melta guns to mobile and / or small units, not rank and file infantry.

3) If your troops are mainly on foot than 4 GLs are a nice cheap option that can so some damage at range and on the move. I still prefer flamers for my PCS. Four flamers can put out a lot of wounds on squads, the trade off being you have to be right next to the thing you're shooting.

minigun762 wrote:Hello all! First time poster here, I normally spend my time harassing people at B&C but due to the limited nature of that site, I need some help with my Imperial Guard army and can't get it there BUT I heard good things about you guys so here I am.

Anyway, onto my questions!

1) I've reviewed some tactics online about how best to your use Command Squads and I'm leaning towards the 4x Melta or 4x Flamer squads, probably backed up by a Plasma Pistol. It sounds like the only way to use it is in a Chimera, is that the case? If you have 3+ squads Command Squads, thats alot of extra points being put into mandatory transports so I want to make sure I have to do it.

2) I don't want to use the standard Melta Vets with Vendettas or Medusa for anti-tank, instead I'd like to rely on massed Autocannons for light armor and Demolishers/Lascannons for the heavy stuff. Will that work? I figure that a few Command Squads with Melta will be a decent enough backup..

3) I'm building my Infantry squads to be anti-infantry so is the Heavy Bolter or Mortar a better choice? I haven't had alot of practice with barrage weapons so I'm not sure how useful they will be.

4) Last, is it viable to rely on multiple squads of walking/running Infantry squads for objective grabbers or do I need some sort of transport?

Thanks everyone!

1. If you run an infantry firebase (like i do) then your other option for the CCS is to babysit them. In this case you can give them a standard (that reroll is extremely helpful) and keep the squads within 12", and a long range HW (your choice, keeping in mind the CCS is BS4), still in a chimera for extra protection. If you run mechvet, then a chimera plus SW is the obvious choice.
2. Yes, your idea can work.
3. Between the HB and the autocannon, I prefer the autocannon. There will be instances you will be facing mechanised armies in rhinos or chimeras or wave serpents, and the autocannon gives you the option of hurting them. I really recommend sticking a long range SW (GL or PG) with these squads too. Mortars in line squads I have not tried, as I believe that for mortars HW squads would be a more viable and focused choice.
4. These can work, but make sure you have a PCS to give the "move, move, move" order, if you really need a burst of speed. I personally believe in chimera transports for at least a few of them. the chimera got a definite boost with the new dex. A few of these are cheap enough, and will grant protection, speed, and long and short range firepower (multilaser and heavy flamer) to your mobile units, giving them a real tough punch.

freddieyu1 wrote:
1. If you run an infantry firebase (like i do) then your other option for the CCS is to babysit them. In this case you can give them a standard (that reroll is extremely helpful) and keep the squads within 12", and a long range HW (your choice, keeping in mind the CCS is BS4), still in a chimera for extra protection. If you run mechvet, then a chimera plus SW is the obvious choice.

How has that worked out for you? I just assumed that not loading up your CCS squad in a Chimera for special weapon spamming would be a waste that I didn't consider using them in a more "backfield" Leadership role.

Oh ya bud. I also run a gunline, and the CCS is the lynchpin. It's job is to keep the HWS's at maximum efficiency using the company commander's Orders. BiD and FomT boosts the firepower, while GBitF keeps them in line (with 3 bases, you'll often need it to rally). The Regimental Standard gives them a reroll, pretty necessary as the HWS is ld7 and no vox's allowed. I run a Lord Commissar as well. Now the HWS's are testing orders and rallying on ld10 (but a tight bubble; I make sure my most important HWS's for that battle are in it). All of that works from a chimera, and endless their are endless combos to fill out the rest of the squad depending on the needs of your army, point levels, etc. I like to bloat it out a bit so to make a meatshield for the CC/RS/LC combo, to make sure it's operating as long as possible. When using the CCS like this, keeping the long-range threat level of it down is a viable strategy so that the squad is not a high priority in the enemy's targeting order. Then again, it's hard to resist utilizing that BS4.

The PCS fits well with the infantry squads, as mentioned. It's 3 basic orders don't do too much for the HWS's.

murdog wrote:Oh ya bud. I also run a gunline, and the CCS is the lynchpin. It's job is to keep the HWS's at maximum efficiency using the company commander's Orders. BiD and FomT boosts the firepower, while GBitF keeps them in line (with 3 bases, you'll often need it to rally). The Regimental Standard gives them a reroll, pretty necessary as the HWS is ld7 and no vox's allowed. I run a Lord Commissar as well. Now the HWS's are testing orders and rallying on ld10 (but a tight bubble; I make sure my most important HWS's for that battle are in it). All of that works from a chimera, and endless their are endless combos to fill out the rest of the squad depending on the needs of your army, point levels, etc. I like to bloat it out a bit so to make a meatshield for the CC/RS/LC combo, to make sure it's operating as long as possible. When using the CCS like this, keeping the long-range threat level of it down is a viable strategy so that the squad is not a high priority in the enemy's targeting order. Then again, it's hard to resist utilizing that BS4.

The PCS fits well with the infantry squads, as mentioned. It's 3 basic orders don't do too much for the HWS's.

Maybe I'm confused but I didn't think the Standard allowed the Order tests to be rerolled. It says Pinning/Morale but Orders are basic LD tests and I thought they weren't the same.

If so, then I've been missing out on an obvious use of my CCS!
Related to a static CCS, how useful is the MoO? If nothing else it seems like alot of fun.

Ya you're right about that sorry i was wrong...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't have the codex, does it say that GBitF is a morale test?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I throw the MoO in at 1500pts. People don't like him but it's a 30pt pinning pieplate. In my experience, if he gets to fire a few times he'll usually hit something.

1.
Company Command Squad you want either 4 Melta or 3 Plasma Media / 4 Plasma to take advantage of your BS4 and ability to twin link vs vehicles or Monsterous creatures. You definately want to mount up in a Chimera for protection and so you can get where you need to be to fire your short range weapons.

Platoon Command Squad should get either 4 Flamers or 4 Grenade Launchers. 4 Flamers negates your BS3 issue and if you mount up in a Chimera you can get close enough to use the flamers to very good effect. 4 Grenade launchers works if you don't want to get up close and personal.

As mentioned Plasma pistols are not worth the expense in points for a single shot and you don't want to lose your Company Commander or Sarge to an overheat.

You really only need 1 Command Squad for HQ. You don't have to take Infantry Platoons although they have their advantages and disadvantages. Although command squads are good places for special weapons.

2.
Vendetta with its 3 TL Las cannon is one of the better anti light tank options but I can see how you don't like them with large model and in ability to get a cover save.

Massed Auto cannons is less reliable for anti tank as the AV increases. Auto cannons are great vs av10-11 but start to really struggle with AV12 and 13 while the las cannon is not great it still can do the job.

Las cannons aren't actually that effective against AV14 needing 6's to penetrate.

If you want to kill Land Raiders at Range you want a Manticore actually is decent against heavy tanks like Land Raiders. Sure its not as good as a melta but with D3 Strength 10 AP4 ordinance templates that roll 2d6 for penetration and take the highest and you might actually be hitting side armor if you fire indirect. (this matters for Russ Squadrons) Manticores also are really awesome at anti horde with up to 3 large templates that are ap4.

3.
If I take Infantry squads at all I give them an auto cannon (if in a Chimera) or las cannon (if I put them in a blob of 30 so I can give them the bring it down order) The Heavy bolter is useless against all mech and mortars are pretty terrible against all mech as well.

The Manticore is excellent anti infantry with its D3 Strength 10 AP4 large templates. I recommend taking 1 if not 2.

Giving all your Chimeras Hull Heavy Flamers also helps for anti horde.

Since your not taking Vendettas you can take either Hellhounds or Banewolves in your fast attack slots to help with anti infantry as well.

4. I don't really like foot slogging, I at most run 1 Blob squad of 3 infantry squads to form a blob of 30 men with 1 of them having a Commissar to camp on my objective if I run any foot units at all. Commissar is really important here for the stubborn leadership 9. On sparse terrain tournament boards there just isn't enough cover to run many foot units and you need the mobility of transports in order to move quickly to capture objectives. Move Move Move order is great but then your out of cover and with a 5+ save you have a problem. New Tyranids is also bad for foot sloggers.

minigun762 wrote:

freddieyu1 wrote:
1. If you run an infantry firebase (like i do) then your other option for the CCS is to babysit them. In this case you can give them a standard (that reroll is extremely helpful) and keep the squads within 12", and a long range HW (your choice, keeping in mind the CCS is BS4), still in a chimera for extra protection. If you run mechvet, then a chimera plus SW is the obvious choice.

How has that worked out for you? I just assumed that not loading up your CCS squad in a Chimera for special weapon spamming would be a waste that I didn't consider using them in a more "backfield" Leadership role.

It has worked out fantastic.....I did manage to win (co-share) in our local GT last month (you can check out my batrep, the 7th Galen Rockhounds blah blah blah)....

Definitely not a waste..even with a standard you still have a slot for either 3 SW or a HW and a SW..so you can still use the BS4 for these..personally I prefer sniper rifles for the SW for a babysitting CCS, due to the long range, and while I use autocannons, a ML or a lascannon would also be viable....and while I do not use HW squads the "bring it down" order has made my regular squads more effective in taking down light-medium transports....and the best thing is that in assassination missions (kill the HQ) the enemy must get through practically my entire army to waste my CCS (in fact in the GT my CCS survived every game).

There IG has many SW platforms so much so that the SW carrying CCS is definitely not a MUST configuration......PCS, vets, and SW squads are all viable units with the same role (the SW squads borrow chimeras, or ride in skimmers)....conversely babysitting the infantry firebase with a standard can ONLY be done by a CCS, so that is a point to consider....

Kirika wrote:1.
4. I don't really like foot slogging, I at most run 1 Blob squad of 3 infantry squads to form a blob of 30 men with 1 of them having a Commissar to camp on my objective if I run any foot units at all. Commissar is really important here for the stubborn leadership 9. On sparse terrain tournament boards there just isn't enough cover to run many foot units and you need the mobility of transports in order to move quickly to capture objectives. Move Move Move order is great but then your out of cover and with a 5+ save you have a problem. New Tyranids is also bad for foot sloggers.

It seems like that takes a big chunk out of the size of your army. Doing quick math, you can take 2 infantry squads for every mechanized infantry squad. Thats the difference between fielding 60 Guardsmen and 120.

I like Chimera but I wonder if they are really worth shrinking your army down to 1/2 its potential size.

On the topic of "blobbing" is it smart to build an army list that involves big blobs or should it be a game by game decision? I ask because I don't like the idea of including a Commisar in an army that won't alway blob.

makes sense...I did not take a commissar in my last tourney, thus making the decision to blob a game decision..

Still, even if you have a commissar, the decision is still yours to take whether you blob all or not....

freddieyu1 wrote:makes sense...I did not take a commissar in my last tourney, thus making the decision to blob a game decision..

Still, even if you have a commissar, the decision is still yours to take whether you blob all or not....

While I think that the idea of Commisar's and blob squads would be alot of fun and fluffy, I'm not sure how effectively they really are. It seems like you might be trying too hard to keep units alive when it would be cheaper to just let them die and replace them.

On another note, what do people think about Lascannons in Infantry squads? Its Expensive, +40% of the entire squad and only 1 BS3 shot but it helps to keep them safe.
Of course LC HWS seem like a much better idea.

I agree, I'm a little iffy about having stubborn all the time myself. Sometimes I want those guys to break, so that I can blast the enemy.

It is a tough call on the LC placement - the IS does keep them safe but the HWS maximizes their firepower with orders.

Yesterday I fought a space wolf list and I used a 2 squad blob with a commissar, with PWeapons, as part of captain sidewinder's (err alrahem) outflanking platoon....and they did a great job in shooting a grey hunter squad, then after being charged by the remnants of that squad finishing it off in close combat...so for the first time they worked as they were intended (I have used the blob before but in my firebase, and I never had to use the stubborn rule then since in those games no real threat got close...)..

In that very same game I used 4 ogryns, who did great and saved my firebase blob from another grey hunter squad. The 4 caused 10 wounds on the last 5 GH (including a model with a PF and 1 with the mark thinkgy which gives d6 bonus attacks), which managed to kill them all, preserving my objective for the win....

You have to play with the blob unit to appreciate it, on paper it seems ineffective but on the table it will reliably do its job.

murdog wrote:Ya you're right about that sorry i was wrong...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't have the codex, does it say that GBitF is a morale test?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I throw the MoO in at 1500pts. People don't like him but it's a 30pt pinning pieplate. In my experience, if he gets to fire a few times he'll usually hit something.

GBitF is a leadership test, just like all the orders.

MoO, I agree completely.