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So, I've refined the rule of POTMS down to this:

Fire one more weapon then would be legally allowed. (i.e if I didn't have this rule it would be illegal.)

May fire at a different target.

May not fire a weapon more then once.

RAW, That screws around with me, while I understand that you may say RAI, it's still illegal to fire a weapon twice, I've a small argument.

1. it's illegal to fire a weapon more then once
2. POTMS means you may fire one weapon that is illegal.
3. under those lines, it should be possible to fire a weapon twice, because it's illegal.


GW really needs to redefine it's rules, to stop things like this happening.

What does everyone think?

That's about covers it. The only point of contention that you didn't cover is firing using POTMS after popping smoke (you can't).

MasterSlowPoke wrote:That's about covers it. The only point of contention that you didn't cover is firing using POTMS after popping smoke (you can't).

Yes you can </Snark>

(Really though, you can't. GW cannot write, end of discussion.)

Pretty sure this one was beat into the ground already. The rule states "... can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted." not "can fire a weapon once more than would normally be permitted." The rules state you can only fire any weapon one time and POTMS just allows you to fire one more then you typically could. Nothing in it's description overrides the each weapon fires once rule.

So if I didn't move my LR I can shoot all my weapons, then I can fire one of those weapons again. Because I get to fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted, correct?

Ironhide wrote:So if I didn't move my LR I can shoot all my weapons, then I can fire one of those weapons again. Because I get to fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted, correct?

Being able to fire one more weapon than normally permitted lets you fire an additional weapon. It doesn't let you fire the same weapon twice. That's not one more weapon... it's one weapon being fired again.

pg. 81 C:SM or pg. 44 in C:SW - Special Rules: Power of the Machine Spirit: (2nd paragraph, 1st sentence) A Land Raider can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted.

Doesn't say anything about it being the same weapon. And while you normally can't fire the same weapon twice, the rule states, "...than would normally be permitted."

Iron hide gets it.

I agree with Gwar!


They do need to word things properly, or release a FAQ about it.

This is an issue, as much as if a transport moves does the squad inside count as moving if it wants to fire weapons.

-- they need to be covered in greater detail.

I'd say Insaniak is correct.

I don't think it even implies that you can override the normal rule of a weapon not being allowed to fire twice. You get to fire one more weapon, not the same one again.

This argument, to me at least, seems pretty straightforward. The rest of the stuff about POTMS? Well I'm not so sure...

DoW

the POTMS is meant for a raider to move 12 and smack something with a big gun.. not meant to fire a single gun twice..

Captain Solon wrote:Iron hide gets it.

I agree with Gwar!


They do need to word things properly, or release a FAQ about it.

This is an issue, as much as if a transport moves does the squad inside count as moving if it wants to fire weapons.

-- they need to be covered in greater detail.

Actually thats covered in the transports section of the BGB p. 66 "riders firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at crusing speed that turn."

DogOfWar wrote:I'd say Insaniak is correct.

I don't think it even implies that you can override the normal rule of a weapon not being allowed to fire twice. You get to fire one more weapon, not the same one again.

This argument, to me at least, seems pretty straightforward. The rest of the stuff about POTMS? Well I'm not so sure...

DoW

Codex special rule overrides rulebook. While the BRB says you can't fire a weapon more than would normally be allowed, this Codex special rule states, "....than would normally be permitted." So it's telling me that if you don't move your LR and fire all your weapons, then PoTMS kicks in and lets you fire one of the weapons again. At least that is how I see it.

Specific > general. Not codex > main rules.
There is a general rule denying permission to fire one weapon more than once, and no specific rule overriding this.
e.g. the part before the elipsis in your quote is as important as the part after. "Another weapon" as in, an additional one.

The PoTMS special rule overrides it.

No, it doesn't. PoTMS allows you to fire one more weapon than normal based on movement, and allows you to fire one weapon while stunned/shaken.

It gives you no permission to fire a weapon twice.

Ironhide wrote:The PoTMS special rule overrides it.

No, it doesn't.

Ironhide, you are 100% unequivocally wrong.

SM codex

"can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted... etc etc... subject to the normal rules for shooting"

also it states
combat speed = 2 weapons
cruising speed = 1 weapon

Also in the BGB... page 27
"for example, a multi-laser fires three shots in EACH SHOOTING phase so its type is noted as Heavy 3"


So assuming you are stationary and fire all your weapons, you can fire one more, but you are subject to the normal rules for shooting (ie you cannot fire a weapon more times that it states in its type) so the "extra" weapon is wasted as you have fired all your weapons already. On the other hand you could remain still, choosing to not fire one of your weapons, then use the POTMS to fire said lascannon at a different target (but firing it only once per shooting phase as it is heavy 1, not heavy 2)

Does too! I can also fire once after popping smoke.





*sits back to watch the ensuing carnage*

If your posting to cause an argument then your very immature.
If your posting because you think its true... considering your grasp on the rules, i'd love to play you for an easy win.

Grow up and do something mature like paint toy soldiers

"the vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the same turn it uses smoke launchers"
kinda fits in with the...
"normal rules for shooting" i mentioned earlier

Smoke Launchers wrote:The vehicle may not fire any of its weapons...

Crew Shaken wrote:The vehicle may not shoot...

That's good enough for me to show that you can fire when using Smoke Launchers.

SM codex state you may fire when shaken/stunned one weapon using POTMS thereby overriding the normal shooting rules in that case.

Smoke launcher rules remain in place as the POTMS does not state it overrides this, so "the normal rules for shooting" come back into play, meaning it can't shoot.

Actually, I agree with what the majority is saying. Just playing devil's advocate so the more experienced peeps on here would explain why it is so. Also, I'm surprised no one told solon to use the search function, since this has already been debated. I would also like to point out that CPT. Solon needs to read through the BRB some more. How many rules questions has he asked throughout the past week?

If your posting to cause an argument then your very immature.

This coming from someone who posted this:

Grow up and do something mature like paint toy soldiers

Right back at ya!

I think I'll go paint some SW now.

I'm detecting that your sarcasm scanner is faulty

thebetter1 is wrong, again.

I think we're done here.