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I'm putting together a list for an upcoming local event and am trying to decide whether or not to take a basic chaplain or Cassius.

I would be running the Vanilla Chaplain with digital weapons as the only upgrade.

Either would be accompanying a squad of tactical terminators (yea I don't have assault termies yet) with a Heavy Flamer, mounted in a land raider (phobos pattern).

The vanilla Chaplain seems slightly more Offensive with the re-roll to wound and comes in 15 points cheaper.
Cassius brings an extra 1 use flame template to the squad and has t6 so he wont instantly die if hit with a power fist. His FNP is just a nice extra.

Which do you folks think would be the better HQ in this case? Should I scrap the chaplain and go with a Libby or captain?
Thanks in advance for any replies.

Cheers
~Volkan

Oh almost forgot the event is 1500 points.

Cassius >>> than any Chappy not on a bike/JP. However, you might get more mileage out of a Libby.

How would a Chaplain fit in a Phobos-Pattern Land Raider with five Terminators?

Nurglitch wrote:How would a Chaplain fit in a Phobos-Pattern Land Raider with five Terminators?

Codex Marines can fit 6/12 guys in.

I personally would either take a straight naked Chaplain or Cassius. To take the Chaplain + DW means there is only a 15 point difference so its less of an issue to just upgrade. However 25 points is more significant (atleast to me).

Frankly, you're taking the Chaplain to make them Fearless and get the reroll's to hit on the charge, so the Chaplain's gear isn't a huge deal. I'd rather spend those extra points on weapons in the rest of my army.

Gornall wrote:
Cassius >>> than any Chappy not on a bike/JP. However, you might get more mileage out of a Libby.

Mmmm I'm just not sure how I could fit a Libby in without it being almost 200 points. Null zone would be a great addition. The lack of an Invulnerable save puts me off on Libbys. Terminator armor is pretty costly as well. I'll try to move some points around and see what I can come up with.

Nurglitch wrote:
How would a Chaplain fit in a Phobos-Pattern Land Raider with five Terminators?

Basic Land raiders can carry 12 models. Terminators count as 2 models. 5 terminators are equivelent to 10 models leaving space for 1 more terminator or 2 models in power armor.

Thanks for the quick replies folks.

Cheers
~Volkan


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Minigun762 wrote:
I personally would either take a straight naked Chaplain or Cassius. To take the Chaplain + DW means there is only a 15 point difference so its less of an issue to just upgrade. However 25 points is more significant (atleast to me).

Frankly, you're taking the Chaplain to make them Fearless and get the reroll's to hit on the charge, so the Chaplain's gear isn't a huge deal. I'd rather spend those extra points on weapons in the rest of my army.

That is a good point mini. Could allow me to take a better unit elsewhere. I guess its the same line of thinking as taking a PF on a sergeant or using the 25 points to better something else. Thanks for the good insight there.

Cheers
~Volkan

For 125 pts Cassius is easily one of the best HQ buys in the game. That toughness 6 is really, really nice, and it will save you more then once, and combine that with FNP and his regular 3+/4+ and you have a very survivable unit. But lets not throw his other stuff under the bus: Crozius Arcanum (Standard I know, but still great), Combi-Flamer, Master Crafted Bolter and Hellfire rounds. He gets a bunch of extra gear and stats for very few more points.

JEB_Stuart wrote:For 125 pts Cassius is easily one of the best HQ buys in the game. That toughness 6 is really, really nice, and it will save you more then once, and combine that with FNP and his regular 3+/4+ and you have a very survivable unit. But lets not throw his other stuff under the bus: Crozius Arcanum (Standard I know, but still great), Combi-Flamer, Master Crafted Bolter and Hellfire rounds. He gets a bunch of extra gear and stats for very few more points.

He's a terrific buy, but between him and a basic Chaplain + extra Power Fist or 1/2 a Attack Bike I know which I'd prefer.

minigun762 wrote:He's a terrific buy, but between him and a basic Chaplain + extra Power Fist or 1/2 a Attack Bike I know which I'd prefer.

I can understand why you say that too. It really depends on your style of play with SM. I love Cassius, but I don't take him every time.

Thanks a bunch folks. Lots of good input here. Going to see what I have left when I finish filling out the list and that will help me decide I think. In the mean time I will try play testing it with both and that might help me find a spot for 1 or the other. Any other tips or insight are appreciated.

Cheers
~Volkan

Volkan wrote:Thanks a bunch folks. Lots of good input here. Going to see what I have left when I finish filling out the list and that will help me decide I think. In the mean time I will try play testing it with both and that might help me find a spot for 1 or the other. Any other tips or insight are appreciated.

Cheers
~Volkan

Well the easiest thing to do is buy yourself some Ass Termies.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tactical Terminators but they really don't have the same oomph in assault as Ass Terminators. I think 4 TH/SS/1 LC is the best combo, assuming you have a HQ unit. Its really helpful to have more attacks @ I4 to thin out armies before they get to beat on your TH/SS ones.

minigun762 wrote:

Well the easiest thing to do is buy yourself some Ass Termies.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tactical Terminators but they really don't have the same oomph in assault as Ass Terminators. I think 4 TH/SS/1 LC is the best combo, assuming you have a HQ unit. Its really helpful to have more attacks @ I4 to thin out armies before they get to beat on your TH/SS ones.

I agree. ATM its an issue of cash. I do plan to invest in the TH/SS arm pack that GW sells but until then I need a contingency in case that doesn't come to pass. So in the mean time I will run with 5 tac termies, 1 will have a heavy flamer and another a chain fist.
I hate to waste shooting but if it seems that its a target that will run or I will lose the charge to shooting casualties i will probably forgo shooting. Obviously this decision will be on a case by case basis.
The other option I was thinking of was a naked 10 man squad of Vanguard Veterans in the raider. This seemed less useful overall against harder targets and other dedicated assault units.

Cheers
~Volkan

There's also soft score to consider, which are different from one gaming group to another.
Multiple named characters can be looked down upon.

Cassius can't take a bike or jump pack ( as mentioned before ).

For a foot chappy he's nice, but if you are hurting and need 25 points more, I wouldn't hesitate to down grade him.