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So I shoot at my kid while he is behind a pile of rubble (Cover save 4+). We have been playing Cover save first and if the shot gets past the cover then I roll to hit then to wound. It makes sense that way. I just got curious if thats how it goes or do you guys....Shoot, roll to hit, roll to wound, armor save, cover save? I spose it doesn't really matter but just wondering...

Imperial Fist wrote:So I shoot at my kid while he is behind a pile of rubble

Pics or GTFO

As for your question, no. You roll to hit, Wound then take ONE save, whichever one is the best out of Armour, Cover or Invulnerable.

If you think it doesn't make sense, think about it. If you fail your 3+ Armour save, it means the shot hit home and assploded you. A Shrubbery wont save you.

See the way we were playing was any time that someone is behind cover if they are shot at before anything he automatically rolls the cover save to see how many bullets are stopped by the cover. i.e. 10 ig guards fire at his chaos marines behind cover. first thing he rolls 10 dice, any dice that are 4+ those bullets are stopped. So he rolls 4 dice that are 4+ that means I roll 6 dice to hit and so on and so forth. I spose we were way off....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Think about it.....There are four cover types. We don't play any category 1 (6+ save) terrain. Its all category 2, 3, or 4, (crates, barrels, woods, wreckage, rubble, craters and what not. So It kind of makes sense to think....if a guy is behind say a broken down concrete wall and gets shot at. All shots being fired should have to make it past the cover before anything happens to the guy. Therefore you would think you would cover roll all shots, roll to hit, roll to wound, save throws.

Might think so, but the rules are as Gwar stated.
Roll to hit, Roll to wound, defender allocates wounds, rolls any applicable save, whether rgular, invulnerable or cover.

But the thing is, the mechanics do cover that (no pun intended).

Don't forget passing a cover save is NOT always "The bullet hit the cover". The Enemies aim might have been thrown off or he didn't get a clear shot. And, again, as I said, if you fail your armour save, it means the shot went through the cover AND your armour. You still only make 1 save though for game balance.

Aright nice, thanks for clearing up that one. Now another on topic question which is basically made known from your previous answer just for clarification is.....With cover its considered anything in the line of site of the firing units. Now what if I see him through the woods behind a barricade? no matter what I Roll to hit, Roll to wound, then he chooses which is better armor or cover and then rolls his save? I think i got it...that right yeah? meaning you only get one cover even though I'm shooting through the woods and passed the barricade. (it doesn't matter how many objects are in the line of site)

Yes, correct.

Always intend your puns.

imperial fist wrote:you only get one cover even though I'm shooting through the woods and passed the barricade. (it doesn't matter how many objects are in the line of site)

That's correct. Keep in mind that no rules goons are going to come to your house and break your thumbs if you want to change up the order of shooting resolution as a house rule. But it sounds like you're trying to teach your son, so I'd suggest it's a good idea to explain the rule as it actually works, then explain why you're using this house rule instead (in case he turns out to be a phenom and wants to try his hand at the tournament scene and win dad some retirement money!).

-GK

Taking both armor and cover saves unbalances the game to be way in favor of MEQ armies. I'd advise against it.

Exactly - the current rules mean that low armored units benefit greatly from cover while highly armoured units benefit much less (e.g. marines only get benefit from cover when you shoot them with AP3 or better but orks get benefit from all cover)

The rules are written this way to streamline and like stated above, keep from making the game too much in favor of assault (okay more so than it already is). Shooty armies would be nearly worthless if the opponent got 2 saves for their shots. a 4+ save first would cut the shots in half a 3+ would further cut it down by two-thirds. This would result in nearly no shots hitting. Math-hammer the way you were playing would take 20 shots from MEQ would probably result in 1 or 2 wounds at best.