Looking for tactics on DeathKoptas

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**sugarwookie**

Hi,

I've tried to search through the forum and haven't come up with anything. Does anyone know of any good threads on Deathkoptas and how to use them, or would you possibly throw some useful tactics on using large squads of them in 2k or less games?

**doubled**

Take rockets and the bombs, scout move, then turbo into side and rear armour, hopefully moving it so that you can drop bombs on infantry blocks as you go.

**Karon**

Alright then.

Bombs aren't very good, its a bolter template, and generally you won't find yourself in position to use it.

T-L Rokkits ONLY on them, nothing else weapons wise, discluding Buzzsaws.

I prefer to run (if you have the FA choices available) them in 3 units of 1, putting a Buzzsaw on one of them, and giving them all T-L Rokkits. Turboboost them on the scout move, when your turn comes, they should have survived since they have a 3+ cover save.

Screen the one with the buzzsaw with the first two when you do make your scout move, this is important.

So, after your 24" scout move, you now have (most likely) 3 deffkoptas facing either the rear armour or side armour. Move your 12" to get into position in rear armour, fire off your rokkits (remember, keep position explained above if anything goes wrong) and you may or may not pop a tank thanks to Twin-Linked.

After this happens, if your in position to assault anything, do it, but have your Buzz-kopta assault a tank ideally. Have the other two tie things up.

They are now a major nuisance, with two wounds each, the only option to our opponent to take out only one of them is overkill. Yes, they're one kill-point each, but they will earn that cost back if you use them correctly.

This is the ideal setup for them, if you have the points, put buzzsaws on all of them, but this is only if you have the spare points.

Large units really isn't viable, because they're leadership won't cut it, in a unit of five, with one buzzsaw and all T-L rokkits, thats already 250 points, for only 5 orks with jetbikes.

Units of anything but one have major leadership problems, units of 2-4 need to only lose one model, and with leadership 7, you have the odds against you. 3d6 fallback aswell, which is too much to gamble on.

**Black Blow Fly**

A unit of five that is fully complex and armed with buzzsaws is just plain old nasty and quite resilient. I think they are one of the better units in the codex.

G

**Bad_Sheep37**

2 or 3 small units. Scout move 24", Move 12", pop armor and assault. Thats all there is to it. Their amazing and I love them....a lot

**Hialmar**

Karon wrote:Alright then.

Bombs aren't very good, its a bolter template, and generally you won't find yourself in position to use it....

...Large units really isn't viable, because they're leadership won't cut it, in a unit of five, with one buzzsaw and all T-L rokkits, thats already 250 points, for only 5 orks with jetbikes.

Units of anything but one have major leadership problems, units of 2-4 need to only lose one model, and with leadership 7, you have the odds against you. 3d6 fallback aswell, which is too much to gamble on.

I respectfully disagree with you on several issues that you had noted. First off, I assume by bolter template you mean the small blast template as there is nothign known as a "bolter" template that I am aware of. If you are going to face a horde army the bombs are worth it as the blast templates can do plenty of damage especially if you carpet bomb a unit or two.

The Deffkoptas can be used fairly effectively in several circumstances and outside of Stormboys are the only decent Fast Attack the Orks have, as buggies die way too easy in my opinion. As with most things orky, your strength truly lies in numbers, even if you can't reach the magic number 10. I would suggest you take 5 of them with the TL Rokkits and with 2 Buzzsaws. Taking 5 means you lose 2 to shooting before you have to test and that makes all the difference and their speed makes them very viable for contesting objectives or getting to any place you need them to be.

Pick your targets carefully, use your speed to get to the flanks and rear of enemy armor and then in close combat you do not use these as your primary assault unit but as a supplemental assault unit in concert with other units. Combine them with a 30 strong Ork mob against a tough target and get 3 powerklaws tearing things up instead of just one.

**Thor665**

Hialmar wrote:I respectfully disagree with you on several issues that you had noted. First off, I assume by bolter template you mean the small blast template as there is nothign known as a "bolter" template that I am aware of. If you are going to face a horde army the bombs are worth it as the blast templates can do plenty of damage especially if you carpet bomb a unit or two.

Bigbomm's use the large template.

What he meant by "bolter template" is a simple expression of his opinion of how potent the bomm is. If you look at its stat line you see that what you are doing is dropping a large blast template that hits those underneath it as though they had been hit by a bolter from a Space Marine.

A bolter is a basic small arms weapon, and though okay in rapid fire mode from a full squad of marines, is hardly anything that causes most armies to write home to their momma complaining about the fearsome firepower they are under. So when he says 'bolter template' he is referencing how many points you are paying for a one shot item that is about as effective as having 6 marines shoot at you from 24" away unless it manages to hit a very tightly packed unit.

**Karon**

My thanks, Thor.

Your not understanding Deffkoptas, your going by the statement orks are all about numbers, which is false for Deffkoptas, their max is 5. With only ONE buzzsaw and all w/ twin-linked rokkits is EXPENSIVE. For that points cost, I could get almost two units of trukk boyz.

You take Deffkoptas in small numbers, taking 5 is overkill for whatever your firing at, and the only way they are going to do anything but tie things up in assault is if they have a lot of buzzsaws.

A deffkopta with TL rokkits and a buzzsaw is 70 points, 70x5 is 350 points, way too expensive for generally weak models.

As I said in my above post, you don't take them to kill anything besides tanks, you turbo on scout, pew pew at any tanks on rear armour after you move in the following phase, and then any deffkoptas you have with a buzzsaw assault tanks if possible, and the others tie things up so the rest of your army can get stuck in.

Deffkoptas fail to concentrated fire, like everything else. They only have two wounds, but within this, your giving your opponent only one option to take out that deffkopta: Overkill.

After turn 1 and them assaulting and such, they really aren't useful unless they kill that unit in assault (VERY unlikely) and get to shoot again. They are for turn one assassination of tanks, and then tieing up HW squads, dev. squads, or assaulting tanks with buzzsaws. They are too expensive PPM wise to take in large units.

**labmouse42**

In my ork army I take 2 units of 3 of them. I have found that these units perform very well overall.

I either keep them in reserves, or behind terrain so they cannot be fired at on the first turn. As I bring them out, I use them for the following jobs
* Cracking Light Armor
3 TL STR 8 shots has done well on cracking open transports

* Stopping MCs
I've used said squads to put wounds on MCs. They were great for putting ranged wounds on a carnifex, etc.

* Cracking T4(5) targets
Attack bikes, Oblits. Generally things with 2+ wounds and a toughness of 4(5). Moving 12" and shooting 24" into them is very handy.

* Making them feel pain
On units that FNP, the STR 8 shots are great. They can thin out squads of PMs qucikly. Works great on Necrons too.

* Last turn objective contesting
Using them to turbo boost on an objective on turn 6 is very useful. Just make sure you have the last turn.

* Drawing attention
Boosing both squads up the side of the board always draws more attention, which means less on your real threat.

* Assaulting
You can use them to assault a unit that you want to bog down Tau, ork congo lines, etc. Anything that you need to slow down in order to win the game.
Overall, I can hardly imagine a ork army without 6 of these. I'm not sure how effective 9 or 15 of them would be. YMMV depending on your gaming groups.

**wuestenfux**

Green Blow Fly wrote:A unit of five that is fully complex and armed with buzzsaws is just plain old nasty and quite resilient. I think they are one of the better units in the codex.

G

I'd keep such a unit in reserve.
It usually comes in at the right flank and then eventually cause havoc behind enemy lines.

**General_Chaos**

I've been using mine by turbo scout moving up then either attacking armour or just buzzing across the board in front of my opponents lines just to draw fire so my boyz can move up unscathed a little longer.

**MorbidlyObeseMonkey**

I think the best way to use them is for the first turn charge. It's not that they do a lot of damage in CC (they don't), but they are rather resillient against shooty infantry. So if your opponent is dumb enough to leave broadsides or devastators without a bubblewrap then make them pay for it. If you get second turn then Outflank them and go in for the side armour harrasment.

I run my deffkoptas cheap & dirty. 2 'koptas w/ 1 Buzzsaw for the wound allocation and CC punch. 95 points means it's not a big deal if it dies.

**Lorek**

Cheap and dirty is the way to go, from what I've seen (I'm on the receiving end). In a game I played yesterday, my opponent ran two squads of five, each with rokkits and buzzsaws, and the units cost something like 350 points each. That didn't leave him much for actual Orks in an 1850 army, and I tabled him. It's not that he used them poorly, it's just that they definitely were not worth their points.

**wuestenfux**

My Deff Koptas stay in reserve and usually come out of the right flank.
I use a squadron of 5 Koptas with 2 buzzsaws to cause confusion and havoc behind enemy lines.

**ounumen**

I use mine to pop expensive armor on turn one and assault there after. My opponants sole focus is those 3 defkoptas and will ignore my Kann wall for at least a turn. Nothing pisses people off more than when a unit that cost less than 150 points eats up 400 points

**Thor665**

How are you killing a monolith with deffkoptas?

**ounumen**

Thor665 wrote:How are you killing a monolith with deffkoptas?

Lucky rolls on the buzzsaws and I dont think the guy I played knew his codex. Bad example. Point is they are cheap if played in three's any more is a waste. They are meant to be an annoyance.

**40kenthusiast**

lucky rolls on the Buzzsaw? It's s7 on the charge, the Lith is armor 14. To get a kill you'd need one heck of a lucky roll.

**labmouse42**

40kenthusiast wrote:lucky rolls on the Buzzsaw? It's s7 on the charge, the Lith is armor 14. To get a kill you'd need one heck of a lucky roll.

What? You mean you never rolled an 8 on a d6 before?

In all seriousness, as a previous poster mentioned, its best to keep your deffkopta squads lean and trim IMHO.
Multiple buzz-saws are nice, but I find find that it just makes them a more juicy target for enemy fire. It has been my experience that when my opponent wants to take down the deffkoptas, he pours enough fire to finish them off. Their best defence has been just to not be 'worth it' in his eyes.
That is, of course, until my 2 squads of 3 deffkoptas plant 3 STR8 hits on the rear of his tanks or on a MC.

**General_Chaos**

ounumen wrote:I use mine to pop expensive armor on turn one and assault there after. My opponants sole focus is those 3 defkoptas and will ignore my Kann wall for at least a turn. Nothing pisses people off more than when a unit that cost less than 150 points eats up 400 points worth of monolith

Yes that would piss me off too...

WHO SAYS orks don't have good Anti-tank!!!!11! Melta-buzzsaaws for the WIN!

**ounumen**

40kenthusiast wrote:lucky rolls on the Buzzsaw? It's s7 on the charge, the Lith is armor 14. To get a kill you'd need one heck of a lucky roll.

I know I looked it up after I posted will edit the post. The guy I was playing said it was front 12. To bad for him. I do use the hell out of them to pop armor or walkers.

**Black Blow Fly**

One unit five fully complex and with buzzsaws you can either outflank or scout depending on whether you go first or second. The unit is quite resilient with two wounds apiece and being complex. They are great as a shock troop (distraction) and are also good at taking out armor with the buzzsaws and shooting into side armor.

G

**Thor665**

I generally agree with the keep them cheap philosophy - since Orks are generally a horde oriented army and that' what you should be doing; getting more bodies on the table.

That said, depending on the point total of the game and how many boyz I have on the field I have occasionally gone into more expensive and kitted out deffkoptas with some pretty decent and fun results.

**QuietOrkmi**

2 Deffkoptas, both with TL-Rokkits, one with a Buzz saw for 105 points... If you go first you will hit with at least one shot to the rear ~50% of the time... 30% of the time with both...

2 S8 shots that hit Rear armor 10... followed by 3 S7 auto hit... and 3 S4 auto hit...

Total damage on average is...
Nothing: 4.584
Glances: 1.183
Penetration: 2.233

So... 1st turn 105 points says that your opponent's transports do fire and more than likely will not fire...

If you go the Big Shoota route for 95 points...

6 S5 shots that hit Rear armor 10... followed by 3 S7 auto hit... and 3 S4 auto hit...

Total damage on average is...
Nothing: 8.388
Glances: 1.556
Penetration: 2.056

The Big shootas are slightly more effective point per point, but in the long game the Rokkits, provided your opponent did not shoot them into oblivion will be more useful...

**Jag_Calle**

I love deffkoptas, and I've used 'em in alot of different sizes and shapes. I've only played two games without 'em...

I tend to go with units of two, both with twl rokkits, one with bomb and one with buzz-saw. for 130pts this unit usually stirrs up more than enugh trouble.
It might not kill 130pts, but it will distract more than that. they usually kill their points worth or more in about 70% of the games they're in.

My regular way is to take one of these units for every 1k points.

I've also experimented with using units (kitted out as above) of 3 koptas in 1500-1750pt games, they've worked decently, but are a tad too expensive.

most of the ways to use koptas on the board have been mentioned above, so I'll focus on the (IMHO) important bit, the big Bomm.

Bigbomms are a very situational and "lucky" weapon. 15 points per unit isn't much, compared to what it's done for me. yes, kitting out EVERY kopta with one, will get very expensive, very fast, but, just one is allways worth it.

I think I've managed to "drop da bomb" in just about every game I've had 'em in. remember, against say marines, you just need to kill one or two of the sodders to make the points back, and the sheer potential usually scares the enemy, as with some luck, you COULD take out 7-8 MEQs, and still get to shoot at/assault something else..

These are my main anti-tank units, and whether scout moving, or outflanking, they usually manage to bomb someone, and shoot at/assault a vehicle, usually killing it in the process..

I'm currently fiddling at a moronic "get as many big plates as you can" ork list, ie, 3 Looted wagons or BWs with killkannons/boomguns, 2 SAG meks and 15 bomb equipped koptas with rokkits... Who knows, it might be fun for shitngiggles... *turns on "ride of da valkyries" on the stereo*.... Heh, imagine THAT hitting your lines on turn one...15 bolterplates, 2 SAG plates, and 3 MEQ killer plates =) that and 15 twinlinked rokkits.... and it's not THAT expensive either.. pointwise atleast..

//Calle

**bravelybravesirrobin**

as with most posters I agree if you get first, scout turbo-boost then assault a tank/devvy equivalent, if you get second then outflank, move up to assault a tank/devvy equivalent.

no units in between 1 and 5, either keep them cheap or try for fully complex (and 5 strong only in massive games of 3k plus)

In fact I like mine so cheap I don&t even bother with the rokkit launchers. Most of the damage is done by the buzzsaw anyway so why spend 10 pts. That's 3 grots there, or half a kannon unit! IMHO the rokkits are fine but koptaz are for the buzzsaws, if you primarily want the rokkits go for the cheaper and fearless buggies instead.

**PrivatePanic**

I used to think Deffkoptas were not very useful. But since I had the AOBR set, I owned 3 of them and decided to throw them into a fun 1000 point game versus the Eldar. Now usually, my Eldar opponent facing orks will bring a bunch of scatter laser toting walkers. I had put together a basically slow march across the table army and was looking at getting shot up. I made enough points available for 3 Deffkoptas with just big shootas. My plan being to assault the walkers first turn and tie them up, maybe even kill them while my army marched. My opponent this time surprised me by bringing dark reapers instead of walkers. The reapers would eat the koptas for lunch. I got first move and turbo-boosted on scout. His reapers were out of range so I assaulted into a squad of guardians with a scatter laser, mainly so he couldn't shoot my koptas. Between shooting and assault, the guardian squad was taken down to about 4 members. My opponent counter assaulted with another group of guardians. He figured they were next anyway. The koptas wiped out the first squad and took no wounds. The counter-assault squad panicked and got swept! Turn two, the koptas flew on over to the reapers, and shot and assaulted them. The reapers died on the bottom of the 2nd turn. Still no wounds on the koptas. Turn three the Koptas turbo-boosted towards a falcon which spooked my opponent and he was now turning everything he had on the koptas instead of the army marching across the table. He took out one of the 3 koptas. Turn 4 they assaulted the falcon and did some damage and finally the marching army, which thought it might miss the whole fight, got into the action to mop up the remainder of his army.

**QuietOrkmi**

Jag_Calle wrote: Bigbomms are a very situational and "lucky" weapon. 15 points per unit isn't much, compared to what it's done for me. yes, kitting out EVERY kopta with one, will get very expensive, very fast, but, just one is allways worth it.

Another way to look at it...If that single large blast template kills a single space marine or 3 guardsman it has paid for itself...

Remember time and place for everything... those Space Marines are in a transport most of the time... Pop the transport then bomb them... So bomb koptas might want to start in reserve against mech armies.