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for Christmas I gave myself more time and decided not to rush painting my deamons so back to the csm's. I haveplayed similar list the the last 2 years and usually go 3-2 or 4-1.

2000 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster



2 Obliterators



2 Obliterators



1 Daemon Prince Wings; Mark of Slaanesh; Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Lash of Submission x1)



1 Daemon Prince Wings; Mark of Slaanesh; Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Lash of Submission x1)



7 Khorne Berzerkers Personal Icon

   1 Skull Champion Power Fist





7 Khorne Berzerkers Personal Icon

   1 Skull Champion Power Fist





7 Khorne Berzerkers Personal Icon

   1 Skull Champion Power Fist





7 Khorne Berzerkers Personal Icon

   1 Skull Champion Power Fist






8 Raptors icon Chaos Glory; Meltagun x2



1 Dreadnought Extra Armor; Dreadnought CCW; Heavy Flamer; Dreadnought CCW; Twin Linked Bolter



3 Terminators Power Weapon x2; Power Fist x1; Combi-melta x2; Heavy Flamer x1)



3 Terminators Power Weapon x2; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Power Fist x1; Combi-melta x2)






Total Roster Cost: 1997



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Its a pretty solid list, I would probably drop the Dreadnought and take either another Terminator squad or find the points for a Defiler if you want a useful walker.

Your organization is kind of hard to read, little too much information. Making it more clear might get you more responses.

there cleaned it up a bit.
I really like the dread. it is a world eater forge world one and he has performed realy well in the past.

Well, the Berzerkers need transports and the Termicides need combi-meltas, nothing else.

berzerkers don't need transports.

transports=waste of points in this list.

i like the flexiblity of the power fist and heavy flamer.

skkipper wrote:berzerkers don't need transports.

transports=waste of points in this list.

I would strongly disagree. A Rhino is mandatory for an assault unit. Otherwise you're just going to get blasted by long range guns and ordnance as you walk up the board.

Even if you had to lose a squad, giving the remaining squads Rhinos is very important.

minigun762 wrote:

skkipper wrote:berzerkers don't need transports.

transports=waste of points in this list.

I would strongly disagree. A Rhino is mandatory for an assault unit. Otherwise you're just going to get blasted by long range guns and ordnance as you walk up the board.

Even if you had to lose a squad, giving the remaining squads Rhinos is very important.

you have princes and raptors and oblits and a dread all that need to be shot before the berzerkers.
good lash rolls and berzerkers are in combat round 1, you never would get that in a rhino. + the 3 extra easy killpoints make it alot harder to win those games
out of the 50ish games with this list i wished for rhinos only a few times.

Transports add much more to an army. The flexibility is well worth 3 KP. But if it's not your cup of tea it isn't. But rhinos work well regardless of list. It may not work for you, but don't go dissing them.

The general competitive meta has gone mech crazy.
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Another note: you could use less space between each line. Or actually just type it out.
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First turn charges (if you go first) is impossible unless the opponent used scout moves forwards or infiltrated closer in Pitched battles.
Otherwise, the first turn charge is cool/fun but not some that is that useful IMO.

Oblits look ok.
Double lash princes: meh…what else is new these days.

I think the problem with this list is that it relies on the lashes. That’s why rhinos were suggested.
Rhino’s provide cover for princes, mobile LoS terrain, allows them to move quickly when Lash is occupied elsewhere, etc.

Relying on lash is a bad thing, while it doesn’t do well for generalship, but a list like this demands planning ahead. But like the old adage, plans don’t always survive contact with the enemy.

Zerkers look ok. A bit boring loadouts.

Raptors look ok, shame there’s not enough points for a spicy champ.
Dread is meh, armor saturation is at zero, which can be bad.
While fire frenying bolters are actually effective against your zerkers, funny.

Termies: are termicide wannabes…fists seem excessive for them.

Sanctjud wrote:Transports add much more to an army. The flexibility is well worth 3 KP. But if it's not your cup of tea it isn't. But rhinos work well regardless of list. It may not work for you, but don't go dissing them.

The general competitive meta has gone mech crazy.


___________________

Another note: you could use less space between each line. Or actually just type it out.
___________________
First turn charges (if you go first) is impossible unless the opponent used scout moves forwards or infiltrated closer in Pitched battles.
Otherwise, the first turn charge is cool/fun but not some that is that useful IMO.

Oblits look ok.
Double lash princes: meh…what else is new these days.

I think the problem with this list is that it relies on the lashes. That’s why rhinos were suggested.
Rhino’s provide cover for princes, mobile LoS terrain, allows them to move quickly when Lash is occupied elsewhere, etc.

Relying on lash is a bad thing, while it doesn’t do well for generalship, but a list like this demands planning ahead. But like the old adage, plans don’t always survive contact with the enemy.

Zerkers look ok. A bit boring loadouts.

Raptors look ok, shame there’s not enough points for a spicy champ.
Dread is meh, armor saturation is at zero, which can be bad.
While fire frenying bolters are actually effective against your zerkers, funny.

Termies: are termicide wannabes…fists seem excessive for them.

rhino's move 12" berzerkers move 7"-12"

firstly they are flying princes with init 6 who happen to have lash. as ther is no other power that can turn a game in your favor like lash. will it win you the event no but can it drag that squad of nob bikers through cover then set them up for a charge by three squads of berzerkers heck yea.
berzerkers are my troops. they sit on objectives in cover and go to ground. good look shooting them off. and have fun charging them off. the termis are more support squads to the zerkers then truly termicide. rhino's are fine in some list but i find berzerkers in rhino's are blah. when everybody mechs I will walk. we are going for the same objectives so he spent points that i didn't.

tourney games with similar list have shown me that.
I beat mech armies in killpoints.
the lash ruins lots non mech armies.
I will finish 4-1 with this list or one similar in the top ten in battle points at the first qualifing event for vegas.
the one change I might make is drop a termi unit for a defiler.

I stand by the statement that the berzerkers don't "need" rhino's

Lash doesn't add anything to this list. Moving up assaults doesn't help against mech.
Zerks need Rhinos. You'll never get the charge off.
Dread out, Termicide to all combis.
Raptors out.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:Lash doesn't add anything to this list. Moving up assaults doesn't help against mech.
Zerks need Rhinos. You'll never get the charge off.
Dread out, Termicide to all combis.
Raptors out.

Damn you ICB, you stalk me to this day!

rhino's move 12" berzerkers move 7"-12"

And your point being?

I’ve got it…. you are saying that the 12” move out of it is much better than a variable speed.

I don’t want to get too specific, but:

In addition to that, they are immune to small arms fire until the opponent is forced to force you out of the rhino.
Even if you are forced out, you get essentially 3” tacked onto your next movement phase and a cool cover save while you are at it.

In addition you get:
-Faster move when on roads.
-Mobile Terrain for DP’s and vindi to get cover saves.
-Block LoS to Zerkers should they need to hide some other squad, and can hide the raptors until they pounce when actual Line of Sight blocking terrain is not handy.
-Able to tank shock stuff to maximize flamers.
-Tank shock stuff off objectives.
-Contest objectives.
-Provide cover for other elements in your army when they are dead, still difficult terrain for enemy to move through.
-Smokes and Obsurity help the durability of the rhino.
-Removal of Escalation.
-Removal of Entanglement.
-Cheap cost.
-Smaller footprint when squad embarked.
-Immunity to Mind War, Lash of Submission, Jaws of the World Wolf, Gift of Chaos.

Just because the zerkers ‘can’ match the speed of rhinos, doesn’t mean they don’t offer anything else to your army.
Again, they may not fit your play-style, but they are a perfect fit into any list.

firstly they are flying princes with init 6 who happen to have lash. as ther is no other power that can turn a game in your favor like lash. will it win you the event no but can it drag that squad of nob bikers through cover then set them up for a charge by three squads of berzerkers heck yea.

I know what lash can do. And I’m not bad-mouthing it.
I’m just saying that from the way you are describing your want of rhinos is because lash is included makes you look like you rely on it.

When you rely on lash it generally means a fragile list with lower generalship ability, from what I’ve seen in my gaming area and of bat reps on various forums.

berzerkers are my troops. they sit on objectives in cover and go to ground.

Khorne is most displeased with that line .
Sure they can hold objectives, but what of the opportunity cost? Do you see it?
In addition, at 2000 points, I’m sure there are those that are not too daunted at removing at least 16 zerkers off the board without a sweat, in which case the last 16 are torn between getting the objective and actually contributing skulls besides their own .

when everybody mechs I will walk.

Well, that is the general vibe, most list will have elements of mech as well…. But personally I think that’s a poor reaction. Adapt or die is the adage most will go by.

we are going for the same objectives so he spent points that i didn't.

You are oversimplifying here.
Having rhinos mean immunity to lash, which means he gets the initiative.
In addition. He has a better chance of scoring one objective and contesting the zerkers, than the zerkers doing anything more than Scoring or contesting, but not both.

I stand by the statement that the berzerkers don't "need" rhino's

Which is all fine and good.
It’s nice to defend a point and get to understand the rationale for your stance, as we are making suggestions that (I guess) most of us know to work for us, but if you are good with what you have then that’s good, there’s not much more suggestions we could make…/shrug.

I think the list is fairly durable, but I think there will be some spoiler lists out there that could drastically change your gameplan w/ Lash.

1. Space Wolves. At 2000 points, Stormcaller and/or multiple Rune Priests can be very troublesome.

2. Possibly Tyranids. They have some serious psychic defenses available, but they will most likely not be heavily playtested by the time Conquest rolls around. Plus, I'm not sure if the bugs will even be out in time (when is Conquest?)

As far as the list:

a single Dreadnought? I know the Oblits and Demon Princes will draw heavy fire, but I'm just not seeing the Dread as really helping the list. Not sure what to add except for mobile cover; Rhinos. The Bezerkers don't need to ride in them, but the Rhinos can be great mobile cover for the Demon Princes. This would help ensure the Princes can get into key positions to use Lash.

Overall, a relatively solid list. If Conquest does use any type of army comp, I wouldn't be surprised to see the list take a few hits for combining Khorne/Slaanesh.

Best of luck.

ok shuffled around some points and dropped a termicide and some icons and put in a defiler.

played a battle versus blood angels
kill points pitched battle

he had
Dante 200
Corbulo 100

Honor Guard 235
Jump Packs
Tech Adept
Melta
Sang
Chapter Banner

Termies 200
Assault Cannon 30
Chainfist 5

6x DC 90
Jump Packs

Furioso 215
Ven, DC, H Flamer, X Armor, Pod

2x 10 Tac Squad 520
Power Fist, Weapon
2x Melta
2x Lascannon
2x Rhinos

2x Attack Bike 150
Multimelta

2x Baal 280
Sponson, X Armor

he had first turn so i reseversed everything.
he deepstruck his termis in turn 2.
my turn two both prince showed up and pinned the termis with lash so ignored them and let berzerkers clean them up in turn three. the princes ending up dieing as expected but they took last of shooting mean while my oblits and defiler rained templates down.
end 6-4 in kill points going into six he was going to be down a lot more after six so he conceded.

there was good terrian on this table but i don't expect to see that at the event.

conquest is jan 16-17 in seattle. I just need to score higher then inquistor malice or his head will not fit through my door on sunday night


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sarigar wrote:I think the list is fairly durable, but I think there will be some spoiler lists out there that could drastically change your gameplan w/ Lash.

1. Space Wolves. At 2000 points, Stormcaller and/or multiple Rune Priests can be very troublesome.

2. Possibly Tyranids. They have some serious psychic defenses available, but they will most likely not be heavily playtested by the time Conquest rolls around. Plus, I'm not sure if the bugs will even be out in time (when is Conquest?)

As far as the list:

a single Dreadnought? I know the Oblits and Demon Princes will draw heavy fire, but I'm just not seeing the Dread as really helping the list. Not sure what to add except for mobile cover; Rhinos. The Bezerkers don't need to ride in them, but the Rhinos can be great mobile cover for the Demon Princes. This would help ensure the Princes can get into key positions to use Lash.

Overall, a relatively solid list. If Conquest does use any type of army comp, I wouldn't be surprised to see the list take a few hits for combining Khorne/Slaanesh.


no comp per say but there is a sportsmanship part and we all know how that goes. th

Best of luck.

no comp per say but there is a sportsmanship part and we all know how that goes. the dread should really get taken out but he is one of those things you feild cause it looks cool. the new nids will not be in play.

Good to see comp not being used. Hopefully, Sportsmanship will not have anything related to an armylist and not having to deal with a person suffering from sour grapes.

Good luck. Look forward to some battlereports...

Zerkers on foot work just fine for Skkipper. New nids won't be out yet, so outside of total mech guard or Eldar on an open table I think he'll do well.

Back to painting!

asugradinwa wrote:Zerkers on foot work just fine for Skkipper. New nids won't be out yet, so outside of total mech guard or Eldar on an open table I think he'll do well.

Back to painting!

good luck at the event. Hope to see you there but not play you as you are good.

the defiler is going into the list for the event. saves me some painting.

Now that is a list! I'll play ya as long as it isn't killpoints

2000 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster

1 Daemon Prince @ 155 pts Wings; Mark of Slaanesh; Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Lash of Submission x1)

1 Daemon Prince @ 155 pts wings; Mark of Slaanesh; Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Lash of Submission x1)

2 Obliterators @ 150 pts

2 Obliterators @ 150 pts

7 Khorne Berzerkers @ 208 pts
1 Skull Champion Power Fist

7 Khorne Berzerkers @ 208 pts
1 Skull Champion Power Fist

7 Khorne Berzerkers @ 208 pts
1 Skull Champion Power Fist

7 Khorne Berzerkers @ 213 pts Icon
1 Skull Champion Power Fist

8 Raptors @ 180 pts Meltagun x2

1 Dreadnought @ 105 pts Dreadnought CCW; Heavy Flamer; Dreadnought CCW; Twin Linked Bolter

1 Defiler @ 150 pts

3 Terminators @ 115 pts Power Fist x1; Combi-melta x2; Heavy Flamer x1)

Total Roster Cost: 1997

there is my new list.
the dread and defiler are going to run together. with the princes and raptors advancing quickly with the berzerkers bringing up the rear. the termi's deepstrike in most of the time. the oblits will may or may not deepstike depending on enemy.

I was thinking about putting a summoned greater demon in the list. but something would have to go. most likely the termis. what do you think worth dropping something? not the dread as he has earned a place in the roster though over preforming aand has a pretty sweet paint job.

The question to ask is what kind of return do you feel you'll get from your terminators? To get full use out of them you have to deep strike pretty close to a target (either to get the melta or heavy flamer) Because of this you have a higher chance of scattering into a unit.

I'd get rid of the terminators, put in the greater demon, and give your dread extra armor. Nothing is as funny as a dread getting stunned, shrugging it off, and running into close combat, which sounds like your dread is pretty good at doing.

yeah that was what i was thinking i would also have enough points to give the raptors an icon

I like the Raptors and think they'll add an extra dimension to your list... It would be nice if you could find the points to give the Raptor champion a pair of lightning claws... Sure it's expensive but it would make them that much better in close combat.

To be completely honest this is one of the best foot slogging armies I have seen since the advent of 5th edition. The Berzerkers are an excellent troop choice for sure.

If I were you I'd definitely drop the termicide for the summoned greater daemon so you'll have some serious ChaosZilla going on. The greater daemon has the ability to soak up a lot of damage and dish it out as well.

I agree with you that the Chaos dreadnaught with 2x DCCW is a great unit. It does need the extra armor though! Mine has won me my share of games and I think people tend to underestimate them.

Good luck with hte tourney. I'm sure you'll do quite well.

G

I agree on dropping the terminators. I've had nothing but dissappointment out of mine. Swapping in a Greater Demon is a very valid idea - I run one and he's been an allstar. A second dread might be fun to putz about with, but I think I'd go with the GD.

i can drop a fist from a berzerker champ and give lc's to the raptor champ.

giving me two berzekers squads with no fist and two with a fist.

though using the raptor champ as a gd port of entry is good if he is naked

So, how did the list fare? Anything work well/bad? What's your take now after the fact?

the event is this weekend so I will let you know how it goes. I am having a test game tonight versus inquistor Malice.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
tested tonight versus inquistor Malice. stompy the dread won the game.

Cool. Looking forward to the AAR.