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Here is my current Chaos army list, I thought I'd toss it out and see what others thought.

HQ: 155
Daemon Prince, Wings, Warptime

TROOP: 1542
3 x 10 CSMs, Flamer, Meltagun, Power Fist, IoCG, Rhino 750
3 x 10 CSMs, 2x Plasmaguns, IoCG, Rhino 675
9 x Lesser Daemons

HEAVY: 300
2 x Defilers, Reaper AC, DCCW

Basically alot of CSMs backed up by Daemon Prince and Walkers.

I personally wouldnt mix the special weapons, conflicting roles.

i would maybe run 3 squads with melta, 2 with plasma, and 1 with flamers.

i like defilers, its a toss up between them and the oblits.

the lesser demons i would think are a waste, i would think they are much better in larger groups.

Actually, I prefer running Lesser Daemons in small groups myself. More versatile and better chance I'll get em in when I need em.

That aside, I like it. Not a lot of versatility, which isn't a bad thing. It just means you'll have lots of scoring troops and it also really flaunts what SMs are all about. Rush in, kill quick, rush out.

zachwho wrote:I personally wouldnt mix the special weapons, conflicting roles.

i would maybe run 3 squads with melta, 2 with plasma, and 1 with flamers.

I've actually had good luck with mix weapon CSMs. The Meltagun is backed up by Power Fists and Kraks while the Flamers have Bolters/BP/CCW.

Most of the time my CSMs are in assault after a single rapid fire, so the special weapons are more about giving them options prior to the assault.


The Lesser Daemons are a filler to be sure, I could fit a Dakka Predator w/ Havoc Launcher in for the same price. Might provide a little more armor saturation and I know I have enough scoring units.

Well generally i also would say dont mix weapons but since you said it works for you then dont change. I also think the lesser daemons are kind of a waste as they dont really fit and generally work best at 10+. Heck if you were able to squeeze in another defiler i would try that.

yea maybe you can find the points for a 3rd defiler after lesser demons and icons are gone

NEVER get rid of icons. When your numbers are down and you take penalties to those saves, those Icons save 5 marines for only ten points. DON'T get rid of em.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:NEVER get rid of icons. When your numbers are down and you take penalties to those saves, those Icons save 5 marines for only ten points. DON'T get rid of em.

Yeah I've found that IoCG is a cheap bit of insurance and really compensates for not being Fearless or having ATSKNF.

Dp is ok. A twin would be nice...
I'm not one for mixing weapons, but if that floats your boat.
CSM w/ plasma look alright. Though I think switching out one squad for something else would be beneficial...something is missing in this list...but I can't put my finger on it.

Lesser daemons: meh, I prefer larger squads, but your preference is smaller, at least it's the minimum squad number that has benefits (the third ring).

Defilers look ok.
Though at 2000, it's wierd to see an unused hvy support slot.

HQ: 155
Daemon Prince, Wings, Warptime

TROOP: 1542
3 x 10 CSMs, Flamer, Meltagun, Power Fist, IoCG, Rhino 750
3 x 10 CSMs, 2x Plasmaguns, IoCG, Rhino 675
9 x Lesser Daemons

HEAVY: 300
2 x Defilers, Reaper AC, DCCW

I wouldn't mix special weapons (melta + flamer) in one squad.
Four troop units should suffice.
I'd consider another Defiler and two cc Dreads.

You will never beat eldar with this list, sad to say. I also think youll have a hard time with guard, orks and nids because theyll either out shoot you enough or out assault you enough. CSM are good, but not good enough in my opinion to take on the elites.

Lots of KP (speaking from tons of experience here). If you're going to run any Daemons, run two or three because they'll get shot to hell. Defilers are OK, but min-sized Havoc squads (Autocannons FTW) will get you more shots and no one will bother shooting at them with all the armor/high wounds running around already. In cover they're survivable enough as well. Lesser Daemons are ok, just be sure that they get used for what you're paying for: a quick-hitting thing to tarpit things that would otherwise chew through you. It's almost silly to not run the Greater daemon when you have this many champs. Add the extra bolter to all your Rhinos for 5 points and you'll get lots of bonus firepower and an extra damage result, which is huge in your list.

Edit: Rhino rule of thumb! If you wonder if you should be popping smoke, you should be popping smoke You won't always get the chance later.

Night Lords wrote:You will never beat eldar with this list, sad to say. I also think youll have a hard time with guard, orks and nids because theyll either out shoot you enough or out assault you enough. CSM are good, but not good enough in my opinion to take on the elites.

Why would you say that? I find that the basic CSM is vastly underrated and in sufficient numbers I'm ok going up against most anything. Uber Grit + Power Fists usually tackles anything I run into.

With Eldar its a game of target saturation, trying to bring more to the table then they can effectively kill. I feel that trying to shoot them down at range is a waste of time.

Oh, believe me, Ill be the first one to say CSM are the best troop choice in the game, but sometimes theyre just outmatched. Theyre extremely versatile and above average at anything, but theyre certainly not the best.

I say youll never beat eldar because youll never catch them. Theyll fly around the board destroying your rhinos one by one until youre footslogging. Then the pain comes through scorpians/banshees/shooting.

I think the main problems would be fixed if you brought in some better long range shooting. You need to destroy those serpents. You need to kill some orks from more than 24" away. You need to stun/destroy those IG tanks/transports just long enough to move up.

Maybe drop one squad in and bring in 3x3 terminators. Just something to support your marines moving up the field.

Night Lords wrote:
Maybe drop one squad in and bring in 3x3 terminators. Just something to support your marines moving up the field.

I've considered the Termicide route many times but it seems like so many armies are bringing units that will screw with your Reserves and I hate to trust to my reserve roll to be my savior.

The idea of a Reaper squad has crossed my mind, 3 Terminators w/ Reaper AC is only 10 points more then a Termicide squad and you don't have to worry about deepstriking if you don't want to. Basically you have 3 mobile Autocannons and thats a good option against skimmers and the like.

Ewww, reapers are crazy expensive IMO.
I used 3x3 Reapers when the codex came out...nifty, but soft and contributing little.

I think someone mentioned the list being KP heavy, the 3x3 termies do not help in that regard.

Sanctjud wrote:Ewww, reapers are crazy expensive IMO.
I used 3x3 Reapers when the codex came out...nifty, but soft and contributing little.

Oh really? I never knew anyone who actually used them. I toss them on my Defilers as backup weapons but the 5x price tag over the Heavy Flamer is hard to swallow. The only thing that keeps me coming back to the idea is how heavily mechanized 5th is and how good ACs are at killing transports.

I think someone mentioned the list being KP heavy, the 3x3 termies do not help in that regard.

Well it would end up being the same really, I'd lose a Rhino, CSM squad and Lesser Daemons for 3 Terminators.

I could go with 2 squads of 4-5 to save a KP though.

Do people think I've gone too far with fielding 60+ Marines then?

So.... you are dropping 2 scoring units for 3 questionable termy squads?

As for 60 marines... it may be more than most use, but it's not too crazy. Mass marines have their issues...mainly lack of supporting elements. Jacks of all trades are masters of none. The special weapons and fists only go so far.

Sanctjud wrote:So.... you are dropping 2 scoring units for 3 questionable termy squads?.

Well I was assuming I'd probably go safe and take 3 Termicide squads.

IMO more scoring units/troops is the safe route.
In THIS case, the termies offer more support, but I think you want that last hvy support option to then spill into the elites section.

Sanctjud wrote:IMO more scoring units/troops is the safe route.
In THIS case, the termies offer more support, but I think you want that last hvy support option to then spill into the elites section.

So you think I'd be better off with a Predator/Havocks or another Defiler instead of looking towards Terminators and the like?

As I mentioned I was toying with the idea of a true Dakka Predator (AC/HB/HL) but that won't help much for killing Skimmers.

The other option is to take a 8 man 4x AC Havoc Squad and use the leftover points for more LD. Keeps me at 6 scoring units but provides some long range firepower thats not vehicle based.

The AC/LC pred is an idea for transport poppers.
Then throw in 2 Combat dreads for:
-armor saturation.
-Infantry support.

That's like 330 points, roughly the cost of those 3 termy squads I guess.

Sanctjud wrote:The AC/LC pred is an idea for transport poppers.
Then throw in 2 Combat dreads for:
-armor saturation.
-Infantry support.

That's like 330 points, roughly the cost of those 3 termy squads I guess.

So make a variant of a Chaoszilla list?

In 1850 I have roughly 40 something MEQs. That in addition to a few terminators (not quite termicide), 2 dreads, 2 preds. Not trying to toot my own horn, but I think that list is much more balanced than this original list while still maintaining a pretty high level of troops. Ive never felt the need to increase MEQs.