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I'm starting imperial guard army.

It would be mech veteran list.
So I need to decide which wepon I should take for Mech veterans.

Flamer
-No need to hit roll
-Ignore cover

But have to get so close.It could be dangerous right?

Melta
-Anti Tank
-Good fire power

But less range. Anyway its for anti tank. And its must items for veterans I assume. I'll 3 melta at least 2 unit.

Plasma
-Good fire power
-Marine Killer(Having anti-marine is always good to me.so many marines around here.)

But get hot. Its dangerous for IG because of less armor.

Grenade Luncher
-Cheap
-Anti horde?

I dont know how to use it tho.


Tell me what you think.
(In my case, I run veteran along with some PBS squad and some vehicles)

As is often the case with such questions it;

A. Depends on the rest of your army.
and
B. Depends on what you intend them to do.

All right.

I'll change how to asking.

Flamers waste Veterans' BS4. If you take a platoon, give the Platoon Command Squad 4 flamers and a chimera. If you are only taking vets, give your CCS 4 flamers instead as your anti-horde unit.

Melta is good - not as your main anti-tank, but as backup. There's always a tank you just need to take out, and melta is your answer. Be sure to have a firebase of autocannons, lascannon, or some nontraditional means (I personally use manticores) to provide your main anti-tank.

Plasma - pretty good. You can get plasmas for 10 points on the warrior retinue for Inquisitors, and the warriors have 4+ saves. You can also use 4 plasma guns in the CCS to good effect. I recommend you always have at least one plasma squad, unless you're heavy on Demolishers/Medusas/etc.

Grenade Launcher - besides the price, I find it kind of meh. Give it to footslogging infantry that are too fragile for more expensive weapons and are likely to die before they get in flamer range.

Here's how I run special weapons in my current 1.5k list:

CCS + 4 flamers + Chimera
Inquisitor Lord + 3 Warriors with plasma guns and a bunch of other stuff (steals chimera from another squad)
Veterans + 3 melta + Chimera
Veterans + 3 melta + Chimera
Veterans + 3 plasma + Harker

A fair balance of all of them, besides the "meh" grenade launchers and the terrible sniper rifles.

Melta is good. Very good. Interestingly, I know of at least one guy who uses sniper rifles.

And, Sir Moter? Your signature is amazing.

makr wrote:Flamers waste Veterans' BS4. If you take a platoon, give the Platoon Command Squad 4 flamers and a chimera. If you are only taking vets, give your CCS 4 flamers instead as your anti-horde unit.

Melta is good - not as your main anti-tank, but as backup. There's always a tank you just need to take out, and melta is your answer. Be sure to have a firebase of autocannons, lascannon, or some nontraditional means (I personally use manticores) to provide your main anti-tank.

Plasma - pretty good. You can get plasmas for 10 points on the warrior retinue for Inquisitors, and the warriors have 4+ saves. You can also use 4 plasma guns in the CCS to good effect. I recommend you always have at least one plasma squad, unless you're heavy on Demolishers/Medusas/etc.

Grenade Launcher - besides the price, I find it kind of meh. Give it to footslogging infantry that are too fragile for more expensive weapons and are likely to die before they get in flamer range.

Here's how I run special weapons in my current 1.5k list:

CCS + 4 flamers + Chimera
Inquisitor Lord + 3 Warriors with plasma guns and a bunch of other stuff (steals chimera from another squad)
Veterans + 3 melta + Chimera
Veterans + 3 melta + Chimera
Veterans + 3 plasma + Harker

A fair balance of all of them, besides the "meh" grenade launchers and the terrible sniper rifles.

Thx reply!
What about Harker? Is he do any good?

Inqusitor's are not supported here. So I cant use them in GW store :(
If it allowed I'll use them.

Grotzooka wrote:
And, Sir Moter? Your signature is amazing.

Thx! This is Lord Cypher. My main army is Fallen Angels so...


Sniper Rifles! I forgot that. Why they are suck?

Sir Motor wrote:

Grotzooka wrote:
And, Sir Moter? Your signature is amazing.

Thx! This is Lord Cypher. My main army is Fallen Angels so...


Sniper Rifles! I forgot that. Why they are suck?

Eh, I was actually talking about your Monty Python references.
As for sniper rifles... are they suck? They're not really very useful except against MC and stuff with low leadership. So, not suck, but very specialised.

Grotzooka wrote:
Eh, I was actually talking about your Monty Python references.
As for sniper rifles... are they suck? They're not really very useful except against MC and stuff with low leadership. So, not suck, but very specialised.

Ah! Thx for that. I love Monty Python. You are the first to mention it! I bought all DVD available.

Well...My PBS can lower enemy leadership......Maybe useful.....?

Sir Motor wrote:Well...My PBS can lower enemy leadership......Maybe useful.....?

Heck yes.

If you want snipers, it's better to just take ratlings, but even those aren't that great in most situations.

Pity about the Inquisitors.

Harker is nice with plasma, 3+ saves cover them nicely while they can threaten both infantry and transports very well.

In summary, take a few meltavets. Flamers/plasma is preferable in command squads, but feel free to take them in veterans if you just want more scoring units without doing all-melta. I say more than 3 units of meltavets, unless you're doing Apocalypse or something, is overkill.

Edit: Snipers are pretty decent with PBS, sure. But why not just take weapons that can kill the enemy to force a 25% morale test instead?

makr wrote:If you want snipers, it's better to just take ratlings, but even those aren't that great in most situations.

Pity about the Inquisitors.

Harker is nice with plasma, 3+ saves cover them nicely while they can threaten both infantry and transports very well.

In summary, take a few meltavets. Flamers/plasma is preferable in command squads, but feel free to take them in veterans if you just want more scoring units without doing all-melta. I say more than 3 units of meltavets, unless you're doing Apocalypse or something, is overkill.

Edit: Snipers are pretty decent with PBS, sure. But why not just take weapons that can kill the enemy to force a 25% morale test instead?

Ah you mean "Iron Hand" Straken,right?


I agree with Snipers. I would prefer kill more and more!

Flamers/plasma is preferable in command squads

Why in the command squad? Meltas combine very nicely with the commanders Orders. Having them in his squad makes it certain he'll be there to Order them.

Plasma would work well with those Orders too, but I don't recommend Plasma without a 4+ save, otherwise they die too fast with too expensive of a weapon.

I'd recommend a roughly even mix of Flamers and Melta, skewed around the rest of your army. If you've got lots of tank killing, then more Flamers, and vice versa for Meltas.

3x Flamers are no joke at all. Use the Chimera to tank shock and bunch up the target, then flame them all. If you think about it, with Meltas, you'll only get 3x shots, 2 hits, and thus a few less than 2 dead Marines. With Flamers, all you need to do is template 4 models per Flamer, and you should get the same results. If you bunch them up, 4 should be trivial.

Flamers will also be much more useful as the metagame adjusts to Tyranids (as will mech).

I find that taking a fourth flamer has a much greater effect than a fourth melta, so it's better to simply load up on those in the squads that can take more weapons. I personally find that a lot of times it's better to stay in the chimera than leave for orders, though this can vary.

Sure, flamers aren't really "at home" in a CCS where they waste their BS4, but in an all-vet list it's the best place to take them.

So Flamer works well it seems.

In my list for 1000pts
I have 3 vets in chimera. Current loadout is 2 melta team and one plasma.
And no CCS. I use P Psyker.
Will Flamer work?
Perhaps Flamer work well with demo charge squad.

(In my list 2 PBS exist and of course in chimera.)

I'd say you don't really have a massive amount of veterans in your list, so don't divert one of those squads to flamers.

I'd say your current configuration is fine, just take something to cover anti-horde - it's possible 5 heavy flamers on your chimeras will do the job, but if not consider making the points for a Valkyrie with Rocket Pods, a Manticore, or another veteran squad with flamers.

CCS and Vets (basically any BS4 model) definitely shouldn't have a flamer. You can get them more cheaply/easily in regular infantry platoons.

PCS - 50 pts with 4 flamers
SWS - 50 pts with 3 flamers

Likewise plasma is most cheap on inquisitorial henchmen, and as an added bonus they get carapace armor and targeters. This puts a Hench+Plasmagun at 20 points total. On any other model they'd be 23+ ppm and not have carapace armor for Gets Hot!.

Here's how I kit my army:

Flamers - PCS and Special Weapon Squads
Plasmas - allied WH/DH Inquisitor and/or Inquisitor Lord Henchmen
Meltas - CCS and vet squads. I buy them chimeras, but often times I put them into Vendettas/Valkyries to take advantage of the Scout turbo+first turn 12" move to alpha strike Land Raiders.

PCS - 50 pts with 4 flamers

No question this is a major sweet spot, since they bring along Orders as well. Vets would run you 85 (if I recall) for only 3x Flamers (but, obviously, lots more bodies).

That said, this doesn't cover the full cost of going with Platoons. You're also paying for the Infantry squads, which, while cheap, and increasingly popular in blobs, I don't really consider a good fit for a Mech list.

Though buying them Flamers isn't a great value, a strength of the Vet squad is that they're easily purchased in reasonably priced blocks, and then you can give them whatever weapon is most needed in your list.

Likewise plasma is most cheap on inquisitorial henchmen, and as an added bonus they get carapace armor and targeters.

Another good tip, since Plasma can be a great drive-by weapon, but (as I'm sure you're aware), the whole ally listbuilding thing is uncomfortable for people. I, for one, just can't wrap my head around the full legalities of it, so I avoid doing it. Not necessarily a flaw with your suggestion, just a reason that it's not an option for some.

I've had it played against me, but honestly I don't know where the rules are for it.

If you can explain how it works (rules wise) and make an argument for why this option won't go away, I'd be curious to see it.

Thx for reply!
It seems flamer is not for my list.

makr wrote:I'd say you don't really have a massive amount of veterans in your list, so don't divert one of those squads to flamers.

I'd say your current configuration is fine, just take something to cover anti-horde - it's possible 5 heavy flamers on your chimeras will do the job, but if not consider making the points for a Valkyrie with Rocket Pods, a Manticore, or another veteran squad with flamers.

Thx for advice.
I'll take heavy flamer for chimera.

Phryxis wrote:

PCS - 50 pts with 4 flamers

No question this is a major sweet spot, since they bring along Orders as well. Vets would run you 85 (if I recall) for only 3x Flamers (but, obviously, lots more bodies).

That said, this doesn't cover the full cost of going with Platoons. You're also paying for the Infantry squads, which, while cheap, and increasingly popular in blobs, I don't really consider a good fit for a Mech list.

I was a pure Mechvet player, but I've since added a single platoon for objective holding. Since 2/3 of missions include an objective (probably near your deployment zone) a couple cheep firebases in the Chimeras are an, if not mandatory, effective inclusion.

Another good tip, since Plasma can be a great drive-by weapon, but (as I'm sure you're aware), the whole ally listbuilding thing is uncomfortable for people. I, for one, just can't wrap my head around the full legalities of it, so I avoid doing it. Not necessarily a flaw with your suggestion, just a reason that it's not an option for some.

I've had it played against me, but honestly I don't know where the rules are for it.

If you can explain how it works (rules wise) and make an argument for why this option won't go away, I'd be curious to see it.

Pretty simple, you can ally in 1 Elite from both the DH and WH codices. Inquisitor + 3 Warrior Henchmen with plasmagun upgrades (20 + 10 +10 +10 +10 +10 +10 pts).

I have no doubt that it will go away, eventually, but for the two years in the interim I see no reason for IG players to ignore this very viable option.

I imagine the platoon would really depend on the points level. A minimum for 130 points - make that 295 if you want to mechanize them, and 315 with the flamer PCS. Seems better to me at least to get 2 mounted veteran units with weapons for about the same price.

Vets are largely wasted if used for nothing more than objective camping. I'd rather dedicate it to two line squads and get a "free" order-giving flamer suicide squad to put in a spare Vendetta/Valkyrie.

Pretty simple, you can ally in 1 Elite from both the DH and WH codices. Inquisitor + 3 Warrior Henchmen with plasmagun upgrades (20 + 10 +10 +10 +10 +10 +10 pts).

Ok, I didn't realize you were using Elites, I thought it was the Troops Stormtroopers you were taking...

Once again, Vets give you the most things you want for the least price overall. Having an Inquisitor is nice, having 4+ is nice, having Plasma is nice, the cost isn't too bad, but the model count is low, and the big issue: they're not Troops.

At some point it'd be interesting to look at how one might Theoryhammer out what it's worth to be Troops. I'd have to think you could come up with some percentage that, as a rule of thumb, would express how much it's worth to be Troops.

So, for example, if you've got a 100 point Elites choice, what's it worth for it to become Troops? Maybe 10-20 points? 10-20 percent?

To me it's just not worth it to field Plasma given all the tradeoffs in cost, Gets Hot, not being Troops, etc.

Vets are largely wasted if used for nothing more than objective camping.

I agree, but I view them more as an offensive unit that will kill enough enemy that you will be confident of keeping them and a Vendetta alive to go grab an objective late.

I also count on at least one Chimera getting smoked, meaning the squad inside can just run back to an objective and camp it, and take that waste as a cost of doing business. If there's a Vendetta around to keep them going forward, so much the better.

In my army I already have 5 scoring units. IG players suffer diminishing returns from the relative "value" of troops status. I'd rather have more plasma guns (special weapons in general, really) for fewer points than fewer guns for more points, but on another two troops.