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Hey guys!

forgive me if this is a question frequently asked, but I searched and I could only find threads of '06 or earlier.

While reading one of the painting and modelling threads a though occurred to me, why not do a 'Black Ops' style scout sm army?

Question is, can is be done, if so, how? Would it be only good for friendly games, or competitive in tourneys? My only experience with scouts so far is sitting them in some cover while pissing off my mates by pinning their squads turn after turn.

Any help would be much appreciated!

I think its a cool idea. I could be wrong, but I think it would probably only be useful for friendly play since its a pretty fluffy army. That is unless you are playing in a fluff tourney. But making a black ops army does seem like fun and it would probably annoy the hell out of your opponents.

That being said, there are plenty of options out there for scout based armies.

troops
sniper/missile/hb scouts in cover
shotgun scouts
cc scouts
tellion

Fast attack
Scout bikers
scout Land speeder to transport scouts (I forget which it is I think tempest)

Also when tackling this army, the biggest concern fluff wise imo the hq. Who to take that would be good in a scout force. I personally think shrike is the ideal choice. Since he and the squad he is with infiltrates it allows your entire army to have that black ops feel to it. In addition he grants your marines fleet, therevy allowing very good alpha strike by cc scouts and shrikes personal unit. Again if you are going for fluff I'd probably stick him with a command squad to represent the vertern black ops guys who are so good at sneaking they can do it in power armor. This army would probably by more CC based with support from sniper fire scout bikes and speeders. Its biggest weakness would be heavy army so jsut get lots of metla bombs. Hope this is helpful. Again this seems like a really fun idea.

See, I hadn't thought of using Shrike, but as far as troops and fast attack is concerned, that's exactly what I was thinking too.

Also, I seem to be missing the reason why you should but an ML into a scout sniper squad. Far as I can tell, the Sniper Rifles aren't hugely effective at busting any armor, so you' be wasting the sniper shots at something like that. A Heavy Bolter I can understand, seeing as how sniper squads tend to be shooting at troops.

Well, I've seem some Scout armies on paper but not yet on the table.
A Scout army can be done.

Captain
2x 10 Sniper Scouts
2x 10 Scouts w/ ml, Sergeant w/ melta bombs
2 LS Storms (carrying combat squadded Scouts led by Sergeants)
2x 3 Attack Bikes w/ multi meltas
3 Predators

Here's a question:

It seems that the Command Squad can't take Jump Packs, which limits Shrike's usefulness, so if he joins a squad of Assault Marines, do they benefit from his "See, But Remain Unseen" rule?

I've heard of people using "Tenth Company" armies before-- in general it seems like a cool idea for a themed army, but probably not a very effective one, at least not in high points games.

I always forget that command squad can't take jump packs it makes no sense. Can you give them bikes with out a bike mounted commander I don't have book on hand?

I agree with the missile launcher statement I was just pointing out it is an option.

As for Shrikes rules it goes back and forth. clearly the RAI is for him to join a squad and they get infiltrate, so you could have assault marines sterguard, termies, whatever. but I believe and I think gwar has posted on this in the past that RAW it doesn't work. But again in friendly games I don't forsee a problems in fact everyone I know plays, uses him as intended.

Far as I can tell, the Command Squad can take bikes whether or not the Captain they are accompanying is on one. It makes no sense, but those are the RAW.

Anyway, I built a 1200pt list, as that's usually how many points my mates and I play:

HQ
Shrike [195]

TROOPS
10 man Scout Squad w/ Telion, 8x Sniper Rifles, Heavy Bolter, Camo Cloaks [230]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 9x Sniper Rifles, Heavy Bolter, Camo Cloaks [170]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 4 Combat Blades, Power Fist, ML [165]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 4 Combat Blades, Power Fist, ML [165]

FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder Storm [50]
Land Speeder Storm [50]
5 man Vanguard Veteran Squad w/ Jump Packs [175]

The idea being that the two squads with combat blades jump in the LS's to either outflank or scouts move & and jump into choppy asap, while the rest of the army provides supporting fire, ML scouts taking out armour as necessary.

c&c?

In hindsight, it seems to me that I might be better off dropping the PF's on the sarges to throw on an MM on each LS, and doing so would free up points to give the Veteran a Relic Blade...

Why are there no command squads with jump packs? Because Vanguard vets exist.
There is not 'vet' biker unit, hence the inclusion of bikes for the command squad.

At least that's my rationale for the lack of JPs for the Command squad.

As for the scout army, I have only one advice: Kill the mobile heavy flamers first...

As for the recent list Monkee, I think regular assault marines would be good enough, the Vanguard don't really offer that much that assault marines could do with more bodies.

No heavy flamer for the Storms?

sanct good logic but vandgaurd vets don't get apothicaries like the other command squads do, which is why its lame.

But I do agree regular assault marines will serve you better than vets since the primary justification for the huge cost of vanguard vets is herioc intervention which you will not be use. Over all you'll get more attacks and have some extra poinst for a PW/TH/PF

If you want a Command Squad with Jump Packs you should use the Blood Angels list.

But then you couldn't use shrike and telion WAHAAAAmbulance.

Hokay, so modified list as follows:
HQ
Shrike [195]

TROOPS
10 man Scout Squad w/ Telion, 8x Sniper Rifles, Heavy Bolter, Camo Cloaks [230]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 9x Sniper Rifles, Heavy Bolter, Camo Cloaks [170]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 4 Combat Blades, Power Fist, ML [165]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 4 Combat Blades, Power Fist, ML [165]

FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder Storm w/ HF [60]
Land Speeder Storm w/ HF [60]
6 man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Power Fist [153]

So what are the thoughts on PF for scout sarge?

Also, a thought just occurred to me; Is there any benefit in combat squadding the sniper scouts? On the one hand, against armies like IG or Orks or anything with low armour, having 4 squads pinning my opponents squads is much better than 2. but then again, combat squads make me have more kp, don't they?

Remember to give Scout Sergeants with power fists shotguns instead of bolt pistols.

Monkee's list is a good starting point.
I'd add some FA or HS units for fire support.

While I agree with you wus, monkee is only playing at 1200 and that is a good point limit for his scout army. as the game gets bigger and bigger 1750+ range he'll come up against lists that can bring allot more effective fire to the table.

wuestenfux wrote:Monkee's list is a good starting point.
I'd add some FA or HS units for fire support.

Slight issue... there aren't any more FA slots left in the foc... HS it is then!

Which HS options would fit the fluff? I'm thinking Predator if anything, although, something makes me think that Ironclads might work

@ Monkee: Combat squad the snipers based on the mission. Keep them lumped together during KP missions and break them down in objective missions.

Hokay. I think I have a reasonable grasp on how this army will run, but please, correct me if I'm wrong somewhere...

CC Scouts combat squad, melee hitch a ride, outflank.
leftover from CC squads infiltrate into advantageous position (cover much)

Sniper Squads infiltrate, combat squad as necessary.

Kayvaan and his squad outflank.


Speeders fly toward enemy, attempt to dump scouts within assault range. Kayvaan does similar.

Snipers harass the enemy with pinning sniper fire!

Mop up enemies and cap objectives.

c&c?

sounds good, but another tactic you may consider is infiltrating all the CC units instead of outflanking IF you get the first turn. That way you can deploy no closer than 12" with infiltrate. move 6" or 12" (shrike) in movement phase, fleet D6 in shooting then assault 6". You have an automatic first turn assault. Great way to eliminate enemy heavy weapon squads or even tanks that haven't moved yet!

If you want a black ops army, I would rather go with imperial guard, with vets and stormtroopers, it will be much more competitive too.

Scout armies don't seem very black ops for me, and they have one major weakness - anti-tank

I think it can work decently if you use scout bikers, Shrike and lots of ccw scouts

Something like the below could work decently, didn't bother to do the pts though, so it might be (probably is) way too many pts.

Shrike

5 scouts, ML, snipers, camo
5 scouts, ML, snipers, camo
5 scouts, ML, snipers, camo
10 scouts, ML, powerfist (combi-melta on all sarges if they can get it too)
10 scouts ML, powerfist
10 scouts ML, powerfist

5ish scout bikers, fist, 3x GL, meltabomb
5ish scout bikers, fist, 3x GL, meltabomb
5ish scout bikers, fist, 3x GL, meltabomb

It has capability to take out alot of threats on the first turn (if you get it), and it can be in the face of a shooty army on turns 1-2. It has 6 ML's to harrass tanks from a distance (although 3 of those might not see much use), it has some fast moving powerfists, and it leaves opponent anti-tank without any real targets. It is not an awesome army by any means, but it should do OK.

Hokay, so I played a couple of games with a mate of mine tonight, and I thought I should post up the results and findings, to see what people think.

I used this list

HQ
Shrike [195]

TROOPS
10 man Scout Squad w/ Telion, 8x Sniper Rifles, Heavy Bolter, Camo Cloaks [230]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 9x Sniper Rifles, Heavy Bolter, Camo Cloaks [170]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 4 Combat Blades, Power Fist, ML [165]
10 man Scout Squad w/ 4 Combat Blades, Power Fist, ML [165]

FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder Storm w/ HF [60]
Land Speeder Storm w/ HF [60]
6 man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Power Fist [153]

My mate used a WH army for the first game, nothing fancy. Cannoness, Celestians, a couple of girly squads an immolator, some death cult assassins and a callidus.

Pitched Battle, Annihilation. Joy.

I made some bad moves as far as deployment is concerned, placing my snipers in a horrendous position in hindsight, while one of my ML squads got shifted by the callidus...

Long story short, I killed a the celestians, as well as the... girly Devastators... I can't remember what they're called... On the whole, violation. Not fun.

Played again against Blood Angels, Seize Ground, Dawn of War. I changed my deployment a little bit, combat squadding my snipers, and blobbing 3 5-man sniper squads and one of the ML combat squads in a terrain piece (the only one on my side of the board...)

Chaplain, 5 Death company and 10 Assault marines proceeded to destroy my sniper nest, but not before I took out 2 assault marines and 2 death company to rending. Pinning Fail.

Got Shrike and his buddies on turn 3, as well as a land speeder. cleaned up some devastators and ran towards a tactical combat squad. More land speeders. more tactical squad removal. The game ended on Turn 7, with Shrike sprinting towards the ONLY tactical marine left on the table who was holding an objective, while 3 scouts were left holding another objective. A fun game that ended in a really annoying draw :(.

Overall, I found that the army lacks early on support. In both games I lost a huge chunk of my army within the first turn or 2, while that portion really didn't do too much to soften up my opponent for when the rest of my army got there. Also, the unreliability of reserves rolls was really frustrating...

I was amazed at how effective the LS Storm + Scouts combo worked, the only downfall I noticed was that they were a bit "One hit wonder" squads. They would zoom in, kill a squad, and their transport would get destroyed. stranding them and really leaving them nigh useless for the rest of the game. But this is probably because I didn't bother to set the LS's down somewhere where they would receive cover, but rather, positioned them for optimal flamer shots.

Does anyone have any ideas for the early game woes?