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My question is this...

Tervigon with Gaunts with CA and FC, backed by a Venomthrope... According the SW FAQ they get the FC bonus if they pass their CA Leadership test.

Do the gaunts still benefit from the defensive grenades if they pass/fail that test (based on the FAQ)?

They're within range of the Venomthrope, so yes

So it's not "too rich" for the Gaunts to count as both defending and attacking (unlike the poor schmucks who charged them)?

That's just flavor text, like telling us how cool it looks for a SM Captain to be equipped with a Relic Blade and a Storm Shield. You just have to concern yourself with the actual rules portion.

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Be careful what you post about, people aren't supposed to have those yet and I know GW can be VERY up the bum on that kind of stuff.

You don't have to have a leaked version of the codex to know about the Venomthrope, Shas'O

I would say they Wouldn't get the benefit of Defensive Grenades when Counter Assaulting. Since this ruling is saying that Counter Assault is treated exactly like Assaulting, thus they get the Furious Charge bonus, and this same FAQ says you can't use Defensive Grenades when Assaulting.

Yes, but they are the ones being assaulted. Unless it is errata'd like the rule we're discussing, defensive grenades from the unit being the target of an assault would still go off.

But they're both the target of an Assault. It's "too rich" for a unit that's launching an Assault to use Defensive Grenades. Units that are Counter Charging are treated exactly like units that are Assaulting, and thus it would be too rich for them to use the grenades. You can't get just half the ruling in your favor.

And another question to add to the mix... if they can't do both, do you get to choose to use defensive grenades or counter-charge?

True, I'm just saying don't get too deep into specifics. Guy who owns a game store where I used to live got into BIG trouble for posting about the SW book even though stores get their copy in advance.

Aduro wrote:But they're both the target of an Assault. It's "too rich" for a unit that's launching an Assault to use Defensive Grenades. Units that are Counter Charging are treated exactly like units that are Assaulting, and thus it would be too rich for them to use the grenades. You can't get just half the ruling in your favor.

At no point does the FAQ state that they are assaulting, only that they gain the bonuses as if they were assaulting; the unit being assaulted is the initial target of an assault, and as such may use the defensive grenades. That's the way it stands unless it is errata'd to act as you think it does.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:True, I'm just saying don't get too deep into specifics. Guy who owns a game store where I used to live got into BIG trouble for posting about the SW book even though stores get their copy in advance.

Fair enough, but really man I just play the game, I've got no obligation to keep my mouth shut as I don't have any privileges from GW in the first place like the store owner who got the preview copy.

Gornall wrote:And another question to add to the mix... if they can't do both, do you get to choose to use defensive grenades or counter-charge?

They get both.

RaW: Yes.

RaI: Yes. They did "not intend" to write a Codex did they?

RaThoseIdiotsWhoWriteTheFAQs: Yes, it's only too rich for Space Wolves to benefit.

Gwar! wrote:RaThoseIdiotsWhoWriteTheFAQs

Gwar! wrote:The funny thing is, I do write the rules, considering half that FAQ is poached from mine.

So there.

Sorry, couldn't resist

bhsman wrote:

Gwar! wrote:RaThoseIdiotsWhoWriteTheFAQs

Gwar! wrote:The funny thing is, I do write the rules, considering half that FAQ is poached from mine.

So there.

Sorry, couldn't resist

Yes, your point? I didn't write the idiotic parts, they did.

I'll tac on a further query here.

Imperial Guard Penal Legion:Assume they have the psychopaths special rule. If they are charged, do they now benefit from the effect of furious charge, based on the precedent set by this new FAQ ruling?

Iboshi2 wrote:I'll tac on a further query here.

Imperial Guard Penal Legion:Assume they have the psychopaths special rule. If they are charged, do they now benefit from the effect of furious charge, based on the precedent set by this new FAQ ruling?

No, because YOU DO NOT BENEFIT FROM FURIOUS CHARGE WHEN YOU ARE ASSAULTED.

The SW FAQ is completely wrong. And even if it was right (which it isn't) it only applies to Space Wolves with Ragnar Blackmane attached, No-one else.

Iboshi2 wrote:I'll tac on a further query here.

Imperial Guard Penal Legion:Assume they have the psychopaths special rule. If they are charged, do they now benefit from the effect of furious charge, based on the precedent set by this new FAQ ruling?

According to the FAQ, yes.

bhsman wrote:

Iboshi2 wrote:I'll tac on a further query here.

Imperial Guard Penal Legion:Assume they have the psychopaths special rule. If they are charged, do they now benefit from the effect of furious charge, based on the precedent set by this new FAQ ruling?

According to the FAQ, yes.

Wow, so I can use the SW FAQ for Guard now?

Awesome, let me grab the Skaven FAQ for my Lord of the Rings army, or how about the Space Hulk FAQ for my Bloodbowl team?

Gwar! wrote:No, because YOU DO NOT BENEFIT FROM FURIOUS CHARGE WHEN YOU ARE ASSAULTED.

The SW FAQ is completely wrong. And even if it was right (which it isn't) it only applies to Space Wolves with Ragnar Blackmane attached, No-one else.

Hmm... That certainly is interesting. I wonder if a second FAQ will rectify this first one? the Codex: space wolf FAQ Errata... I can't wait.

Gwar! wrote:Wow, so I can use the SW FAQ for Guard now?

Awesome, let me grab the Skaven FAQ for my Lord of the Rings army, or how about the Space Hulk FAQ for my Bloodbowl team?

Don't be silly; the SW FAQ provides precedence for rules that are not army-specific in the same tabletop game. Also Skaven rules in LotR would be OP'd

Iboshi2: Go ahead and use the SW FAQ, there's no reason why it wouldn't apply to IG

bhsman wrote:Iboshi2: Go ahead and use the SW FAQ, there's no reason why it wouldn't apply to IG

How about, it's not the IG FAQ?

Furious Charge=Furious Charge and Counter Attack = Counter Attack. I don't see why it functions any differently whether it's Ragnar or Nids or whatever. I understand what you're saying in that FAQs might not set precedents (IG Advisors vs Autarchs), but if it's the same USRs, I don't see how that isn't the same betwen FAQs and Codecies.

Having said that, ASSUMING one was to use the SW FAQ in that way, does a unit charging a FC/CA unit with defensive grenades lose their extra attack if the "defending" unit passes it's counter attack?

Because the unit being assaulted is equipped with defensive grenades to begin with.

I guess my argument is that if I'm playing Nids against a SW player, he gets to Counter-Attack/Furious Charge and I do not even if we have the same USRs?

Let's assume the following:

Nid side:

-Termagant unit, within range of a Tervigon (equipped with Adrenal Glands) and a Venomthrope

-Grey Hunters

If the Grey Hunters initiate the assault:

-Termagants, being Fearless, pass the test for Counterattack (or use the Tervigon's Ld if it's not a Morale test, can't remember), gain +1 A/S/I, and the Grey Hunters do not gain their bonus attacks for charging

If the Termagaunts initiate the assault:

-Grey Hunters pass or fail their Ld test, but do not lose the extra attack as the unit with Def. Grenades (Termagants) are the ones making the assault.

That's how it should go, anyways.

bhsman wrote:
-Termagants, being Fearless, pass the test for Counterattack (or use the Tervigon's Ld if it's not a Morale test, can't remember)

No, it's not a Morale test...

This SW faq has opened up a whole new can of worms... Silly GW and there idea not to follow there own damn ruleset. If you play that SW's get furious charge In my opinion I feel you should treat all units with both of these as getting furious charge. NOW for the defensive grenades if you are following the silly faq then your going to have to make a house ruling cause you already aren't following the RAW and they should only be getting counterattack and defensive grenades.

Thread temp locled for cooling off purposes and some investigation.

Uers are remidned about the forum rules..especially the whole "being polite thing".