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Its been a while since I last posted guys so its good to be back.

With the upcoming release of the new Tyranids and with them bringing even more beard to the table I trying to put together a 1,500 pt Space Marine list to counter the bug invasion.

So far I've come up with


HQ

Pedro Kantor (175)


ELITES

Dreadnought (115)
Assault Cannon & Close Combat Weapon

Dreadnought (115)
Assault Cannon & Close Combat Weapon

Tech Marine (53) Storm Bolter


TROOPS

1 Marine Sergeant & 9 Tactical Marines (185)
Combi Flamer, Melta-gun, Heavy Bolter

1 Marine Sergeant & 9 Tactical Marines (185)
Combi Flamer, Melta-gun, Heavy Bolter


FAST ATTACK

1 Marine Sergeant & 7 Assault Marines (171)
Powerfist, Flamer (10)

1 Marine Sergeant & 7 Assault Marines (171)
Powerfist, Flamer (10)


HVY SUPPORT

Thunderfire Cannon (100)

Vindicator (115)

Vindicator (115)



TOTAL 1, 500


Looking forward to your comments

Question: You have Pedro Kantor, but no sternguard? Doersn't that seem like a bit of a waste? Dragonfire and Hellfire rounds are great against nids, and Kantors not really worth his points if your not using Hold The Line! On top of that you only have 2 scoring units. Thats not enough for 1,500 points. Dump your dreadnoughts and the Techmarine, and pick up two sternguard squads. I also wonder why you'd use two assault marine squads. Nids have good melee units, and assult marines are sub-par melee. Two seems like a bit much and I don't think they'll help you anymore against nids than they would against ork hordes. The fast moving flamers might be helpful but I'd keep those squads at just 5 marines.

Thunderfire sounds good. I've never used one, but it sounds like a great anti-horde weapon.

A better list I think would be (with no specific points cost calculated):

Pedro Kantor
Sternguard
Sternguard
Tactical Squad
Tactical Squad
Landspeeder
Landspeeder
Vindicator
Vindicator
Thunderfire

Thats just if your taking Kantor though. If your not gonna use Sternguard, Kantor is a waste and another HQ choice might work better for you. Maybe Shrike if you still want to go packing assaults?

Your solution is to go foot!?

I don't have the word to describe how hard this army would be annihilated by the new Tyranids.

If you want a Tyranid counter, factor in cover saves galore, endless swarms, them reaching you in assault turn 2, their speed, templates.

If you want a "Tyranid counter" you'll have to figure out a combination of a Mechanized army that can throw away units (sacrifice) and be able to take hits and give them back too. Tau have been sacrificing troops to save themselves since the beginning (Kroot should come first to mind) now every other army will have to get use to it.

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/01/rant-tank-shocking-101-zoanthropes-vs.html

Ignore the tank shocking thing but this army posted by Stelek here is a VERY strong army. His raider tactica there is also extremely good.

Another (pedro) style army would be taking a standard dakka oriented list (Predators/LS/Dreads) combined with some Sternguard. Don't take something as immobile as a Thunderfire though. That will get eaten alive.

I think what he meant to say was; there's no point taking Kantor if you're not going to use sternguard.

I think the list he posted would do quite well, as long as all the sternguard and tactical marines are given rhinos, plus appropriate upgrades for the land speeders.

I have to say that is a nice army.

I have to say that army will get wrecked aginst the new nidz. You are going to have to take transports honestly you don't have a choice.

unbeliever87 wrote:I think what he meant to say was; there's no point taking Kantor if you're not going to use sternguard.

I think the list he posted would do quite well, as long as all the sternguard and tactical marines are given rhinos, plus appropriate upgrades for the land speeders.

That is what I meant. Wherever it says Sternguard or Tacticals just slap a rhino next to them XD.

Point for point Kantor is by far the best special character to use.

As a Chapter Master he has Inspiring Presence assists all friendly units within 12" with additional attack per model.

This combo makes the Tactical Marines a strong block of troops with three advantages

1. Each Charging Tact Squad totals 31 attacks for the squad and 4 for the sergeant
1A per marine (9), +1A each for Inspiring Presence (9), +1A Charging (9), Sgt 2A, +1A Inspiring Presence, +1A Charging

2. Each Charged Tact Squad gains 18 attacks for the squad and 3 for the sergeant, instead of the normal
1A per marine (9), +1A each for Inspiring Presence (9), Sgt 2A, +1A Inspiring Presence,

3. Standard Rapid Firing bolter fire, Free Flamer and Heavy Weapon when in a 10 Man Sqd,


Further more to counter charging the Tyranid Advance nids
This combo makes the Assault Marines harder hitting with three advantages

1. Each Charging Assault Marines totals 33 attacks for the squad and 4 for the sergeant
1A per marine (7), +1A each for Inspiring Presence (7), +1A Charging (7), +1 Two Hand Weapons (7)
Sgt 2A, +1A Inspiring Presence, +1A Charging Powerfist attacks

1. Each Charged Assault Marines totals 24 attacks for the squad and 4 for the sergeant
1A per marine (7), +1A each for Inspiring Presence (7), +1 Two Hand Weapons (7)
Sgt 2A, +1A Inspiring Presence, Powerfist attacks

3. Standard bolt pistol fire and 12" Move


The two Tech Marines allows Bolstered Defenses in which either both Tactical squads set up in, keeping return fire casualties hopefully down to a minimum.

Vindicators and Thunderfire cannon provides a barrage of templates, with Kantors own Orbital Bombardment.


Taking Sternguard isn't the only reason why you should just take Kantor. However their Special Issue Ammo makes them worth thinking about with high toughness monsters.

May swap out the 2 Dreads (230pts) for 10 Sternguard (250pts)

Rumor has it the new nid dex has counter-charge...

Also: Nids are a melee heavy army. Marines are not. You're playing into their strengths and intro your weakness. Your melee list will be crushed by anything thats not a gaunt because of higher initiative or weapons skill. I can understand using dreads or assaults to tie up some units and buy time, but building a list based on the idea you can beat nids in CC doesn't seem like it will work.

Case and Point: Your plan to stop a melee oriented army, is to engage them in CC? Hopefully I just misread.

Gaunts can have furious charge and counter attack and poison attack. And rumors are over your local shop should have a copy of the new codex for your viewing. I have read through the whole thing and I am pretty happy over all.

Your plan to counter nids is to assault them with tactical squads and foot marines. Also, no terminators. At all.



31 attacks per squad? Remember, thats if everyone gets in... A SW Wolf Lord would rampage through this army probably alone, imagine ID templates GALORE + a never-ending horde + MC's.

EzeKK wrote:Your plan to counter nids is to assault them with tactical squads and foot marines. Also, no terminators. At all.



31 attacks per squad? Remember, thats if everyone gets in... A SW Wolf Lord would rampage through this army probably alone, imagine ID templates GALORE + a never-ending horde + MC's.

Dude you forgot to mention the MC deep strike into your units and either shot assualt 12 str5 ap5 shots ORRR a large blast template at st6 ap2. Oh yea and did I mention the Doom that also deep strike and causes you to take a LD test on 3d6 EVERY shoting phase friendly and foe. For every point over your LD you take that many wounds with no armour saves allowed. OHH and Doom gets any unsaved wounds added to his wound up to a max of 10 as well as haveing a 3+ invuln save. Anyways I'll just stop there for now.


P.S. I just have to mention that Trygon Primes have fleet as well as that assualt 12 str5 ap5 shooting attack.


P.S.S. Also there is a power that lets a unit move, fleet, shot, then assualt.

Crap I also forgot to let you know Doom shots a large blast template str equal to number of wounds Doom has and it is AP1.

Pappa Shango wrote:
HQ
Pedro Kantor (175)

After reading the new Nid codex, I am convinced that the SM special characters, specifically: Calgar, Lysander, Vulkan and Kantor, will become not only more popular, but even more useful. With all the problems that the nids bring for leadership and morale tests, any of the commanders that benefit your LD are amazingly useful. Although Vulkan is arguably the most worthwhile leader as he earns his points back on turn 1, and now that you can insta kill things like warriors, meltaguns will own.

Pappa Shango wrote:ELITES
Dreadnought (115)
Assault Cannon & Close Combat Weapon
Dreadnought (115)
Assault Cannon & Close Combat Weapon
Tech Marine (53) Storm Bolter

I say drop one Dread and the TM. Put in Sternguard, especially if you take Kantor. Termies are hit or miss with me, especially against nids. Yeah they are pretty cool, and they can do some damage, but the problem is they die rather easily for their points. If you do take them though, take the TH/SS, Dual LCs, variety....I would only take the termies so I could take a LR as a DT.

Pappa Shango wrote:TROOPS
1 Marine Sergeant & 9 Tactical Marines (185)
Combi Flamer, Melta-gun, Heavy Bolter
1 Marine Sergeant & 9 Tactical Marines (185)
Combi Flamer, Melta-gun, Heavy Bolter

Love it. Maybe give the Sarge a PW, and try to throw in one more squad. You are going to need to Rhino up too, especially with the new dex. It is also a cardinal rule of 5th ed.

Pappa Shango wrote:FAST ATTACK
1 Marine Sergeant & 7 Assault Marines (171)
Powerfist, Flamer (10)
1 Marine Sergeant & 7 Assault Marines (171)
Powerfist, Flamer (10)

Nah man, these guys are not worth their points. Drop both of em, and take 3 HF/MM Land Speeders instead.

Pappa Shango wrote:HVY SUPPORT
Thunderfire Cannon (100)
Vindicator (115)
Vindicator (115)

This is quite possibly one of the best combos for dealing with horde armies IMHO. The only other one that comes close is 2xTF Cannons and 1 Vindi.

Notes as a bug player

-Little bugs are probably going to become much more popular, dreads are immune to little bugs, do the math
-Having some CC termies or similiar "good" CC troops is a good idea because you will get openings, but trying to beat a mostly cc army, in cc, is a losing fight in the grand scheme, you need to fight the fights you can win and avoid the others (like tau)
-Look at some tau tactica, sacrificing a squad to keep the swarm off you for one more turn of shooting, ect. are valid tactics.
-Dont count on range, with infiltrating genestealers and lots of deep striking bugs are going to be all over you starting on turn 1, short/medium range, high body count firepower is where you want to be.