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Trying to make sure that I have the correct definition of "unsaved wound"

Squad A does 8 wounds to a 4 wound MC, the MC saves 2 of them, how many unsaved wounds are there?

Answer a: 6, because 8 wounds inflicted - 2 saved wounds = 6 unsaved wounds of course

Answer b: 4, because once he takes 4 wounds he is removed as a casualty, and you do not allocate the excess wounds to said MC

normally I would say it is 6 unsaved wounds, but I know they use this terminology for Assault results, and in that instance it is most definitely 4 unsaved wounds, I will have to see if I can find other instances of this that make me lean towards 6 cause I get the feeling there are some.

If we're talking combat resolution...

BRB p39 wrote:
To decide who has won the combat, total
up the number of unsaved wounds inflicted by each
side on their opponents.
...
Note that wounds that have been negated by saving
throws or other special rules that have similar effects
do not count, nor do wounds in excess of a model’s
Wounds characteristic, only the wounds actually
suffered by enemy models (including all of the Wounds
lost by models that have suffered instant death).

But there are 6 actual 'unsaved wounds', yes.

There would be 6 unsaved wounds, of which only 4 would count towards working out who wins combat.

Ah there we go, it's because of that special addendum in the Assault results rules that it's only 4 there, thanks Gorkamorka.

Drunkspleen wrote:Ah there we go, it's because of that special addendum in the Assault results rules that it's only 4 there, thanks Gorkamorka.

Yup, tis only 4 wounds.

Drunkspleen wrote: There are 6 unsaved wounds, out of interest, what does this relate to?

I was able to check out a preview copy of the new Tyranid codex, the Acid Blood biomorph causes an amount of initiative tests equal to the amount of "unsaved wounds" done to the model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorkamorka wrote:If we're talking combat resolution...

Not talking about combat resolution, since the 4 wound MC model is removed as a casualty, per pg 39, it was destroyed Squad A automatically wins resolution. So we are not talking about a resolution, but how many unsaved wounds the MC model took. pg 39 talks about wounds in excess of a models wound characteristic as not counting towards combat resolution, but I couldn't find anything saying that the excess wounds were or were not counted as "unsaved wounds"

pg 26 talks about multiple-wound models "When such a multiple-wound model suffers and unsaved wound, it loses one Wound from its profile. Once the model has lost all of its Wounds, it is removed as a casualty". Do any excess wounds not saved count as "unsaved wounds"?

Does it really matter? If a model takes wounds equal to or greater than its wounds characteristic, it is removed as a casualty. So, if it is removed as a casualty, it can't take an initiative test.

Now, if the rule you're talking about makes a unit take an initiative test for each "unsaved wound" they took, then I would say the extras would count.

zatchmo wrote:Does it really matter? If a model takes wounds equal to or greater than its wounds characteristic, it is removed as a casualty. So, if it is removed as a casualty, it can't take an initiative test.

Now, if the rule you're talking about makes a unit take an initiative test for each "unsaved wound" they took, then I would say the extras would count.

Except, they don't, because like we have JUST said, the extra ones are ignored.

zatchmo wrote:Does it really matter? If a model takes wounds equal to or greater than its wounds characteristic, it is removed as a casualty. So, if it is removed as a casualty, it can't take an initiative test.

Now, if the rule you're talking about makes a unit take an initiative test for each "unsaved wound" they took, then I would say the extras would count.

Yes, Unit A would take an amount of Initiative tests equal to the amount of "unsaved wounds" done to the MC

Look to the post above yours, Zatchmo.

Look for keyword: Acid Blood.

Steelmage99 wrote:Look to the post above yours, Zatchmo.

Look for keyword: Acid Blood.

*Has massive brain fart*

DURR!

I totally read that the other way. I'll just stop posting now

Gwar! wrote:Except, they don't, because like we have JUST said, the extra ones are ignored.

...in combat resolution, to determine who wins the assault. This is not in combat resolution.

Gwar! wrote:Except, they don't, because like we have JUST said, the extra ones are ignored.

...in combat resolution, to determine who wins the assault. This is not in combat resolution.

Which i think gets to the crux of the difficulty, do unsaved wounds = unsaved wounds, or do the unsaved wounds = wounds suffered. Because you do still resolve combat, its just in the example, one side is destroying the other, and they automatically win.

So in the decision tree, do you still determine results, where you would apply the note that wounds in excess of the wound characteristic do not count (where the amount of unsaved wounds becomes 4). Or do you first decide that if one side destroys the other it wins automatically, even if it sustained more casualties (where the amount of unsaved wounds is 6)

unsaved wounds are the result of failed armour saves, every time you fail an armour save, you now have an unsaved wound, the only exception to this is that when dealing with combat resolution, only those unsaved wounds which contributed to a model's death (not the excess ones) are counted.

So unless Acid Blood has a similar caveat to the assault result rules, then in your first example, they inflicted 6 unsaved wounds, and thus are forced to take 6 initiative tests or else suffer the effects of acid blood.

I guess it goes to show you really shouldn't beat a dead horse, or carnifex.

6 unsaved wounds, just because they're not allocated doesn't mean they don't count.