1850 pts CSM MK II

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**SwanCo**

After the comments on the last list i did some heavy adjustments to try to make a new and improved list. So here it goes

HQ

Daemon Prince
-wings
-MoS
(i'll take advice on adding a psychic power if you think i should)

Chaos Sorcerer
-MoT
-Doombolt
-Wind of Chaos

Total HQ: 305pts

Elites

Terminators x5
-pair of lightning claws
-reaper autocannon

Total Elites: 185pts
Total Army: 490pts

Troops

CSM squad of 10
-aspiring champ 1x
-power fist
-flamer
-meltagun
-dedicated Rhino

CSM squad of 10
-aspiring champ 1x
-power fist
-Plasma gun 2x

Thousand sons x7
-aspiring sorcerer
-dedicated Rhino

Total Troop: 716pts
Total Army: 1206pts

Fast Attack

Chaos Raptors x5
-Aspiring Champion
-Lightning Claws x2
-Flamer

Total Fast Attack: 145pts
Total Army: 1251pts

Heavy Support:

Chaos Defiler

Chaos Pred
las sponsons

Land Raider

Total Heavy Support: 500pts
Total army: 1851

This is what i got doing the best with the models i hve and using the advice i was given on the last list. thoughts and comments are welcome.

**mrwittwer**

I must say i like the new list more overall, but maybe could use a few touch-ups, or maybe just testing to see how this works.

But, i must say your HQ's seem a bit backwards. I would personally spend more points on the Daemon Prince than the Sorcerer. If you want a Slaneesh Daemon Prince, i would give it, Lash or Warptime, depending on what you plan to do with it.

Also, your terminators feel a bit bare. For chaos terminators to really be effective they need a solid plan. Right now they have a set of lightning claws, and reaper autocannon. I would say tool these guys to do one thing, and then load them up on it. But, do what you can with the models you have.

Everything else looks great! I am personally not a fan of raptors, but im sure you have a good plan for them. Troop loadout looks good, as well as heavy support.

**minigun762**

Daemon Prince: 110pts
-wings: 20pts
-MoS: 5pts
(i'll take advice on adding a psychic power if you think i should)

Nice choice, I prefer Warptime. That way you have an I6 MC who is rerolling hits/wounds. A great way to kill all those damn TMC that will be coming out.

Chaos Sorcerer: 100pts
-MoT: 30pts
-Doombolt: 10pts
-Wind of Chaos: 30pts

I really don't like Tzeentch Sorcerers simply because the mark is so expensive. If you really want to take a Sorcerer, keep him cheap and add him to the Thousand Sons as backup for HTH. Even better, I'd consider taking a Tzeentch Lord with a Daemon Weapon. Basically turns you into a super Rubric Marine for shooting while putting out alot of attacks in HTH. Its also cheaper then your current Sorcerer.

Terminators x5: 150pts
-pair of lightning claws: 10pts
-reaper autocannon: 25 pts

Are these guys going in the Land Raider? If so I'd replace the Reaper with a Heavy Flamer and give them a Fist weapon and maybe a cheap Icon (IoCG or IoS).

CSM squad of 10: 150pts
-aspiring champ 1x: 15 pts
-power fist: 25 pts
-flamer: 5pts
-meltagun: 10pts
-dedicated Rhino: 35pts

CSM squad of 10: 150pts
-aspiring champ 1x: 15 pts
-power fist: 25 pts
-Plasma gun 2x : 30pts

Both good choices.

Thousand sons x7: 161pts
-aspiring sorcerer: 60pts
-dedicated Rhino: 35 pts

You need a Power for your Sorcerer. I like Warptime because it helps with shooting your BP, its helps with HTH combat and it helps against vehicles (with a Melta bomb) and all of these matter because you don't have grenades or 2 attacks normally.

Chaos Raptors x5: 100pts
-Aspiring Champion: 15pts
-Lightning Claws x2: 25pts
-Flamer: 5pts

I think 5 guys is too small for a Champion. I'd take 2 specials and leave the squad without a Champion. IoCG is a good way to compensate for the lack of LD10.

Chaos Defiler: 150pts

Chaos Pred: 70pts
las sponsons: 60pts

Land Raider: 220pts

These should all work well, if you have spare points I'd consider adding E. Armor or D. Possession to the Raider.

**Vindicator#9**

The last poster touched on a few things already termies prob. ought to be gone and replaced with two CC dreads. Next throw in a second flamer or replace with two meltas in the raptor squad. Next buy another squad of 1k sons or reg. CSMs. Put doombolt on the asp. sorcerer and throw the chaos sorc. in with these guys. Last like last poster said put WT on the prince. I know you might not have all of this but just giving suggestions to help.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was refering to the first poster not minigun as he has really good suggestions too. Another thing to add is if you drop the termies and were to get the dreads and another squad of guys you could have one squad ride around in the LR. Last if you do use CC dreads keep them right beside the LR cause if they go nuts no worries cant hurt it.

**SwanCo**

thanks for the suggestions

, i will take them into account and try to tweak the list as possible later tonight. as far as dreads go, i dont have the $$$ to get any now, but will prolly switch them out on the list at some later time

**Katavus**

Well in my opinion, 1/3 of the time the dreads do something that you really don't want them to do, so i would advise to not purchase those but they can do a great deal of damage so it is up to whether or not you want to risk that. My last word of advice is that i see no icons, which in my opinion are chaos's best squad attachment, even glory, those termies could do some real damage with any icon tzeetch is great because you no longer have need for cover.

**SwanCo**

hmmm i usually dont think about using icons, i havent really used them in the past...i'll try them out next game i play and see how they work, and if they negate cover then i'll def use it

mrwittwer wrote:
Everything else looks great! I am personally not a fan of raptors, but im sure you have a good plan for them. Troop loadout looks good, as well as heavy support.

I plan on using the raptors to soak up some of the fire that the DP will take since he'll be movng up faster with his wings, i also gave them a flamer and claws so when they do get close i'll be able to do some solid damage

**Alpharius**

PLEASE do NOT list individual points costs.

PLEASE edit OUT the individual points costs in your previous posts.

GW takes a rather dim view of that, and we really don't want and 'extra attention' from them.

**Sanctjud**

Daemon princes are good with any power, even no power.
Sorc: I don’t suggest 2 shooting powers on the guy.

Termies: drop the reaper for 5 combi-plasmas IMO.

Troop1: I don’t suggest mixing weapons.
Troop2: It looks ok.
Thousand Sons: what power?, meh.
I highly suggest a third rhino somewhere to drive home the armor saturation.

Raptors: too blinged out, 2 special weapons before anything else, and more bodies if you are looking for a bullet catcher.

IMO, defiler or pred, not both. Both are decent choices, but 4 times better if they had a twin.
LR: who’s in here? Termies? Then hell no to the Reaper, but I think Termies + LR is a questionable choice for Chaos, don’t expect too much out of it, it’s IMO very different in performance than to loyalists’ standards.

**SwanCo**

Sanctjud wrote:.
LR: who’s in here? Termies? Then hell no to the Reaper, but I think Termies + LR is a questionable choice for Chaos, don’t expect too much out of it, it’s IMO very different in performance than to loyalists’ standards.

so should i give heavy flamers and close combat stuff to them and load em in the LR? sounds like a plan to me