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HQ:
Huron Blackheart(count as warsmith)170pts
Sorcerer w/termie armour,MoT,Warptime,Winds of Chaos,combi-plasma.205pts

Elites:
5xtermies,IoS,4xcombi-plasma.185pts

Troops:
10xCSM ACw/Power Weapon,IoCG,2xFlamers.200pts
-Rino.35pts
10xCSM ACw/Power Fist,IoCG,2xMelta Guns.220pts
-Rino.35pts
9xCSM,1xFlamer.140pts(Huron goes here)
-Rino.35pts
9xBezerkers,AC w/Power Fist.229pts
-Rino.35pts

Heavy Support:
3xVindicators,Daemonic possesion.435pts

So that come to a grand total of 1924pts the terminators have been disscussed at length in tactics and I have now posted the list
But anyway this means I 75pts to play with and any suggestions are helpful such as fill out the zerkers or the terms or something completely different

Wow, that Sorc lord is crazy expensive.
Huron: I think he's better in a cult unit.
Getting in with the CSM hurts when you can't get the second special weapon.

Anyway, the troops look ok.
Vindis look ok as well, but no oblits?
Termies look ok, but what's the point of IoS?

the Higher initiative is a good thing to have as they will be going against MCs and the like,a higher initiative means they get the first hit and put some wounds down before getting squashed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated list

Huron Blackheart(count as warsmith)170pts

Elites:
5xtermies,IoS,4xcombi-plasma.185pts
5xtermies,IoS,4xcombi-plasma.185pts

Troops:
10xCSM ACw/Power Weapon,IoCG,2xFlamers.200pts
-Rino.35pts
10xCSM ACw/Power Fist,IoCG,2xMelta Guns.220pts
-Rino.35pts
9xCSM,1xFlamer.140pts(Huron goes here)
-Rino.35pts
9xBezerkers,AC w/Power Fist.229pts
-Rino.35pts

Heavy Support:
3xVindicators,Daemonic possesion.435pts

so now I have 1904pts this does leave enough points to make the terminators all champions or buy some lesser deamons or some other Idea lets hope this is more effective

My suggestion for putting the Icon of Slaanesh on them wasn't so they would hit before Monstrous Creatures, as its rare for Monstrous Creatures to have I4+, but so that they would find it easier going through the hordes of small screening Tyranids that will be surrounding the Monstrous Creatures that warsmith pyrus plans on sending the Terminator squads after.

Without the Sorcerer your Terminator squads really shouldn't be going into combat with Monstrous Creatures and would be better off going after smaller bugs where their Power Weapons will do better denying them things like Feel No Pain and whatever armour save they get. To be honest I don't know how you're going to be able to engage and destroy more than two Monstrous Creatures without the Sorcerer.

Hopefully you've been following the discussion here

I'm glad you dropped the sorceror. He is about the same price as a landraider... Plus a big waste of points for this list. The termie squads for killing MCs seems a bit of a risk, you shouldn't assume all that combi plasma is going to hit and wound plus often the MCs will be screened by gaunts for a juicy 4+ cover save. They really need some power fists. I would try to rework the termies and if you add some powerfists you won't have to waste any points in IoS.

G


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's see how realy effective is 8 plasma shots versus a 4W T6 MC:

8 shots, 5 hit -> 3 wound

Now you are relying upon CC to take off the last wound and hopefully you did not lose a termie to Gets Hot with those 8 plasma shots:

4 charge, 12 attacks, 6+ hit

So you just were able to drop the MC barring any bad dice rolls. Seems sketchy to me.

G

I'd just like to point out that Monstrous Creatures can only claim cover if more than 50% of their model is obscured. If ~50% of the model is obscured then the cover save is taken at a -1. There's no way that Termagants or even Hormagants will obscure a Carnifex or Trygon or Tervigon unless they have something to stand on.

But they will stop the Terminators from assaulting the Monstrous Creatures, either by proactively charging the Terminators, or by getting charged.

That's why I was suggesting the Sorcerer: he'll both enhance the ability of the Terminator squad to clear screening Tyranids, and be able to administer a killing blow to the Monstrous Creature once the squad is able to assault it.

Against a unit of Termagants under the effects of Catalyst, a Warptimed Wind of Chaos will do far more than the effects of the bolters that will make up the other parts of the Terminator's combi-weapons. Basically without the Sorcerer I'd suggest something else to hunt the Monstrous Creatures.

Although an idea did go through my head. Night Lords, the poster, can better describe this, but consider taking a unit of Raptors instead.

Take a Sorcerer without Terminator Armour, but with a Disc of Tzeentch - which is basically a Jump Pack with +1A for five attacks when he charges. Just give him Warptime and Doombolt. Give him some Raptors to hang out with, with Flamers.

Use their jumping ability to start on the board, jump over intervening screening troops, and use their mobility to avoid stuff like Warriors. Again, an Icon of Slaanesh will probably be good because its cheap and will give them the Initiative to deal (somewhat) with hordes of cheap but fast Tyranids. Otherwise the Icon of Chaos Glory.

Modelling-wise it would be fun to give the Sorcerer the appropriate mechanical equivalent to a Disc of Tzeentch.

So:

Chaos Sorcerer
w/Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Steed, Warptime, Doombolt

Chaos Raptors
9 Raptors
w/Icon of Slaanesh, 2x Flamers

With the Flamers they look like they're ready to go hunting little-gits, and really they are. But they're doing it to clear away screening units to deliver those five Warptimed Instant Death attacks where they can do the most good.

Also, while Vindicators are kind of neat, you may find that having a Havoc squad with Missile Launchers will be better equipped to both threaten large hordes of Termagants and Hormagaunts, and large monsters.

So:

Head Quarters
Warsmith Steelheart (Huron Blackheart)

Technomagus Al-Dur
w/Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Steed, Warptime, Doombolt

Elites
Furnace Squad (Chaos Space Marines)
7 Chosen
w/Icon of Chaos Glory, 5 Flamers
1 Rhino

Troops
Fury Squad (Chaos Space Marines)
9 Chaos Space Marines
w/Icon of Chaos Glory, 2 Flamers
1 Aspiring Champion
w/Power Weapon
1 Rhino

Anvil Squad (Chaos Space Marines)
9 Chaos Space Marines
w/Icon of Chaos Glory, 2 Plasma Guns
1 Aspiring Champion
w/Power Weapon
1 Rhino

Assault Squad (Khorne Berzerkers)
9 Berzerks
1 Skull Champion
w/Powerfist
1 Rhino

Fast Attack
Reaver Squad (Raptors)
9 Raptors
w/Icon of Slaanesh, 2 Flamers

Heavy Support
Pincer Squad (Chaos Space Marine Havocs)
8 Chaos Space Marines
w/Icon of Chaos Glory, 2 Missile Launchers, 2 Plasma Guns
1 Rhino

Tong Squad (Chaos Space Marine Havocs)
8 Chaos Space Marines
w/Icon of Chaos Glory, 2 Missile Launchers, 2 Plasma Guns
1 Rhino

That revamped list is much too heavy on templates. Plus I think you are fooling yourself if you think you can just waltz up to an MC then shoot and assault it. There's going to be a gahjillion little bugs surrounding them. The best bet is to put a hard hitting assault unit in a landraider and hope it doesn't get raped by Zoies on the way in.

G

woah nurglitch that is a huge turn around in terms of a list but I really don't like the idea of raptors in an army of mine the seem kinda fragile,the havocs could be replaced by two autocannon Lascannon sponson preds(I feel that flesh is weak and that tanks are stronger)and they'll have 4xstr7 and 4xstr9 shots a turn.The idea of chosen is a good one that i never really put much thought into but thay are more appealing now that I'm loooking at them.

I will rethink the list as the only troops I do own are 3xmarine squads the sorc and the warsmith.Not a whole lot but thankfully these units are not likely to change.so this means I'm more likely to change the list than if I had more models

An alternate sorcerer I was pondering was:

termie armour,warptime,MoT

this is the cheapest way of doing what I want,reliably getting to use a force weapon and is still a big points sink so maybe he's just not worth it and I shall have to find a replacement such as a dreadnought escourting a land raider full of termies (sorry but I couldn't resist)

I still think the vindicator id the best option in the heavy support

so it now looks like 500pts of plasma chosen will do me the best against MCs than other options so I looks like the ''uber-death-pwnage-squad-of-doom'' has been put to rest but termies may fill a different role in a future list so right now the repacement is endless(so long as as its not in the heavy support slot I would like my vindicators to stay)

Vindis are solid for CSM and I would equip them with possession. Have you considered running a prince?

G

I have considered a prince but they are too big a target on their own in a 2000pt list and due to their size they will die pretty quicky

P.S.I have a few interesting ideas on how to show possesion on the vindis

I dont know... Dual lash is extremely popular.


G

warsmith pyrus:

If you're looking for a cheap utility Sorcerer, you might consider taking a Sorcerer of Slaanesh instead of a Sorcerer of Tzeentch.

Give him:

Chaos Sorcerer
w/Terminator Armour, Familiar, Lash of Submission, Warptime

Or ditch the Terminator Armour and and just go with Power Armour and Wings. He won't be able to use Warptime and his Force Weapon at the same time, but he has Warptime for when he gets stuck in combat, and otherwise has the Lash of Submission for moving those skirmish screens out of the way.

Wings will let him fit in a transport and then easily detach from a unit that's piling into combat, and make him mobile. But the Terminator Armour will keep him alive slightly longer, and I suspect you already have the model.

it is but most lists can deal with it.I really don't like lash as a magic power and I do question its usefulness in relation to the list I have(in my head) which is the troops,the warsmith and the possesed vindis.those are the units I don't want changed all that much.but as I said the elites are what I want to to go MC crushing.

Edity bit:I have a converted sorc in termie armour and as stated above I have the order only techpriest with harness on its way to become a warsmith/huron blackheart

So the Vindicators are there to put big blasts on smaller Tyranids?

Yeah basically they will go infront of the rinos and whittle down the bugs to a manageable size

Why not use Defilers instead then? You'll get better range, the same To Wound and denial of Armour, and the same big blast in a package that'll be more resistant to stuff popping up beside the Vindicator like Trygons, Mawlocs, and Pod-born nasties.

this list was not to be a solely anti-nids list so if this was to see a MEQ,GEQ or tau list list there would be a lot of lascannons and possibly railguns shooting thier large profiles and they are more expensive and I want the whole army moving towards the enemy as one so if this saw a tournament they could handel MCs of a nid nature but still scare others at the same time

Edit:some extra words

Lash is the best thing going versus MCs.

Nurg it looks like you are grasping at straws man.

G

warsmith pyrus:

It might be something if you elaborated your strategy a bit then, because it might help people evaluate your list in some sort of context. Given all the talk in the Tactics thread I had inferred that you were only planning on taking on Tyranids.

Green Blow Fly:

And it looks like you have some sort of mental deficiency. What's your point?

You've been all over the map and again with your suggestions. I think the OP has a firm grasp on what he wants to field and is looking for ways to tweak the list.

G

warsmith pyrus wrote:
Huron Blackheart(count as warsmith)170pts

Elites:
5xtermies,IoS,4xcombi-plasma.185pts
5xtermies,IoS,4xcombi-plasma.185pts

Troops:
10xCSM ACw/Power Weapon,IoCG,2xFlamers.200pts
-Rino.35pts
10xCSM ACw/Power Fist,IoCG,2xMelta Guns.220pts
-Rino.35pts
9xCSM,1xFlamer.140pts(Huron goes here)
-Rino.35pts
9xBezerkers,AC w/Power Fist.229pts
-Rino.35pts

Heavy Support:
3xVindicators,Daemonic possesion.435pts

Not a fan of Huron (or any of the CSM special characters).
Trim the termie squads to pure Termicide (3, 3 combis). Add a 3rd squad. The entry in C:CSM says "combi-weapons" so you can switch which one from game to game.
PF on CSM squad 1.
Fill out CSM squad 3, Huron w/ the zerks.
I don't like Vindis in CSM armies.
Try defilers or Oblits instead.

@nurglitch:

It is true I don't have a way with words so the overall plan for this army would be to be pretty competitive list that has a slight tendancy towards a more infantry based armies such as guards and nids.but still be able to deal with other armies.The list was to be able to have some sort of MC defence E.G. the terminator idea.

the battle plan would be have everything move towards the enemy and blast them with the vindicators and have the meltas pop tanks the flamers and 'zerkers clear ob jectives and such and then the ?mystery-squad(s)? would take care of the MC threat(most of them al least) and other hard to kill stuff

I hope this clears some issues on the lists purpose


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@Iron_Chaos_Brute

the PF on the squad is a good idea but I prefer huron rolling with the CSM and the termies are in disputue in terms of there existance (there is a thread on this by me)

If you keep the vindis behind your rhinos they'll do just fine. Three of them is the way to go with possession.

G

@Green Blow Fly:

You have it right I'm looking for tweaks in the squads and the elites section and not a huge overhaul of the list so this is really going to be an expansion of 1500pt list(which was the troops,HQ and the Heavy support.)

So I'm Looking for is the best elites/troops choice to complement ths list and improve on where it is lacking certain aspects. e.g.MC defence

Have you thought about a summoned greater daemon? The 4+ INV save is a big advantage plus the high WS.

Mayeb extra armour ont he rhinos to make sure they get where they're going?

@Praxiss:
I don't like the idea of having 50pt transports as they will rush towars the enemy on turn one and pop smoke then turn two repeat,turn three they are pretty obsolete.So their survival is not critical.

@Green Blow Fly:
the greater daemon seems reasonable if I have a basic aspiring champion in one of the squads(or possibly a chosen squad with 4xplasma guns)and their cost is fairly cheap.would that be a good idea?

Again, I feel Huron fits better with Zerkers while the CSM can get that second flamer, that second flamer makes them more independant and without need for huron. Huron can then help support the zerkers, esp. needed if they are a more reactionary assault unit.

Termies…/shrug, I think IoCG is the icon to go for.
Maybe even diversifying the combis…
All the troops look good and hvy support looks good, or try 2 vindis and some oblits.

@Sanctjud

the idea of having Huron ''jump ship'' as it were seems a good idea in retrospect and then maybe give the squad a plain champion to get a greater deamon in there and a squad of chosen in rino so a list may look like this

HQ:
Huron Blackheart(count as warsmith)170pts
Greater deamon.100pt

Elites:
8xChosen,IoCG,5xPlasma Guns,Melta Bombs.234pts
-Rino.35pts

Troops:
10xCSM ACw/Power Weapon,IoCG,2xFlamers.200pts
-Rino.35pts
10xCSM ACw/Power Fist,IoCG,2xMelta Guns.220pts
-Rino.35pts
10xCSM,2xFlamer,IoCG,AC(Becomes a Greater deamon).185pts
-Rino.35pts
9xBezerkers,AC w/Power Fist.229pts(Huron goes here)
-Rino.35pts

Heavy Support:
3xVindicators,Daemonic possesion.435pts

Total:1949

so there is still a few points left over(54pts) and I don't know what to do with them(perhaps havoc launcher madness)and I have taken advice from various people to tweak the list to get this format.So does this look better as an up grade for the list or are more modifications required.

Chosen are better, but still rather see 3xTermicide.
GD out. (They're crap).
PF on CSM squad 1. PF on CSM squad 3, switch flamer to plasma or melta. Xtra points on combi for flamer champ and maybe a single 4 man termicide. Otherwise, Xtra TL Bolters on Rhinos.