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HQ

Captain with Powerfist and Artificer Armour 140

Command Squad with 2 meltaguns, a storm bolter and a drop pod with a landing beacon 183

Troops

Tactical Squad
10 marines; plasma gun, multi-melta and a sergeant with a powerfist. Transport;Drop Pod 240
Tactical Squad
10 marines; plasma gun, multi-melta and a sergeant with a powerfist. Transport;Drop Pod 240

Elites

Dreadnought with extra armour in a drop pod 150

Heavy Support

Land Raider with extra armour 265


Land Raider with extra armour 265


Total 1483



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry forgot to ask for your opinions, suggestions, ideas and criticism.

Two land raiders W/ extra armour with nothing in them? Is that a typo?

I'd say get rid of the Command Squad and the Dreadnought and fill those Land Raiders up with Terminators.

Or get rid of one of the Land Raiders and stick another Drop Pod full of Dreadnought/Ironclad and maybe a Land Speeder with the leftover points.

Or a scout squad. You're a bit low on troops, I think.

@ General_Chaos
It isn't a typo, depending on what the mission is the captain will either be in the drop pod or he will be played on the field and just hop in the land raider in the first turn. Also as you pointed out about them having extra armour I forgot to put anything in the spare one silly me >_<

@Monster Rain
Thanks for the input I do need more troops, do I get rid of the dreadnought for extra troops or do I get rid of the second land raider and have a couple of squads of scouts?

Let's see...

If you ditched a Land Raider you could take a scout squad with some melta gubbins and even another Dreadnought in a Drop Pod. That would give you some infiltrating/outflanking troops and another problem for your opponent in his deployment zone.

Right so get rid of a land raider add a dreadnought and spend the remaining points on scouts.

If I got rid of the drop pod for the command squad and put them solely in the land raider and then used those points to put the marine squads in rhinos how would that sound?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did a complete overhaul on the list and now it consists of;

HQ

Captain with Powerfist and Artificer Armour 140

Troops

Tactical Squad
10 marines; plasma gun and a sergeant with a powerfist, in a Rhino w/ extra armour 255
Tactical squad
10 marines; plasma gun and a sergeant with a powerfist, in a Rhino w/ extra armour 255

Elites
Terminator Squad
10 terminators; assault cannon, heavy flamer, and two chainfists 445

Fast Attack
Assault squad
5 marines; flamer, plasma pistol, jump packs removed in a Rhino w/extra armour 140

Heavy Support

Land Raider with extra armour 265

Total 1500

DC_Ravenor wrote:Captain with Powerfist and Artificer Armour 140

I find Captains to be a sub-standard HQ unless you are taking the command squad. Chaplains and Librarians do a better job if your trying to keep it cheap.

Tactical Squad
10 marines; plasma gun and a sergeant with a powerfist, in a Rhino w/ extra armour 255
Tactical squad
10 marines; plasma gun and a sergeant with a powerfist, in a Rhino w/ extra armour 255

I would drop the extra armour and you should always take a heavy weapon

Elites
Terminator Squad
10 terminators; assault cannon, heavy flamer, and two chainfists 445

Not a big fan of footslogging terminators and I would only deepstrike them if I had beacons. You should cut this squad down to 5or 6 and put them in a land raider. Also point for point Assault Terminators out perform Regular Terminator hands down.

Assault squad
5 marines; flamer, plasma pistol, jump packs removed in a Rhino w/extra armour 140

Again drop the extra armour, other than that I never used an assault squad this way so can't comment

Land Raider with extra armour 265

Land Raiders are the only vehicles I would ever consider putting Extra armour on. But you need to understand that Land Raiders do their best work as transports. If you just want some tanks running around get a couple Predators and/or Vindicators

Yeah, if you're not going to use the Land Raider for something specific, I'd say get rid of it. Or you could put the Assault Marines in it and save the points for the Rhino.

If you want to use the footslogging Terminators, I suggest dropping enough squad and vehicle upgrades to put Lysander in there with them. That way he can soak up Lascannon and plasma shots that would normally be a problem for Tactical Terminators.

Another revision to the list;

HQ
Epistolary Librarian with Terminator armour and a Storm Bolter 180

Troops
Tactical Squad, 10 marines with a lascannon 180

Tactical Squad, 10 marines with a lascannon 180

Tactical Squad, 10 marines sergeant with a powerfist in a rhino 220

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad, 5 terminators in a land raider with extra armour 465

Terminator Squad, 5 terminators with a cyclone missile launcher 230

Total 1455

40pts left what to spend on lol
I edited a terminator out as I can't add up and had the Librarian plus 6 Terminators in the LR which would be over the capacity

Definitely put a Teleport Homer on one of those squads with the leftover points, since you'll want to deep strike those tactical terminators.

Pick out some nice wargear for your squads to fill out the points and I'd say you have yourself a pretty fun list to play with.

DC_Ravenor wrote:HQ
Epistolary Librarian with Terminator armour and a Storm Bolter 180

Just a personal choice on my part, but I am not, and never have been, a fan of librarians. Unless you spend quite a few points on them they don't have an invuln save, and are sub-par in general IMHO. If you are gonna spend 180 points you might as well take Pedro Kantor. This way you can take Sternguard as a scoring unit and give your army Stubborn.

DC_Ravenor wrote:Troops
Tactical Squad, 10 marines with a lascannon 180

Tactical Squad, 10 marines with a lascannon 180

I think this is a bad, bad idea. First of all you need to give your troops a special weapon. Take either a Flamer or a Meltagun. You get a flamer for free, and you would spend 10 pts for a MG. For the heavy weapon take either the HB or the MM. With your current configuration you are committing either two full squads to sit in the back and take one shot a turn, at something that will probably get a cover save, or foot slog 5 marines across the table while the other squad camps on an objective. You really need to mech up, it has become one of the cardinal rules for 5th Ed.

DC_Ravenor wrote:Tactical Squad, 10 marines sergeant with a powerfist in a rhino 220

This is what you should do with all of your squads. PFs are great, but expensive. If you have the points, one should go on all of your sarges. If not, don't stress. Don't forget to give this squad its special and heavy weapon.

DC_Ravenor wrote:Elites
Terminator Assault Squad, 5 terminators in a land raider with extra armour 465

What type of Land Raider? If you want to stick with the Librarian and a few extra Termies then take a Crusader, it can hold 8 models in TDA. Drop the extra armor, it is really pointless. Instead slap a MM on there, it is cheaper and a better investment.

DC_Ravenor wrote:Terminator Squad, 5 terminators with a cyclone missile launcher 230

Drop these in favor of a Sternguard squad. Especially if you end up taking Pedro Kantor.

If you make the edits I suggest your list should look something like this:

HQ
Pedro Kantor=175

Elites
Assault Terminators
3 TH/SS, 2 LCs=200
Dedicated Transport:
Land Raider+MM=260

Sternguard
2 Combi-Flamer, 3 Combi-Melta, PW=175
Dedicated Transport:
Razorback=45

Troops
2xTactical Squad
Melta, MM=350
Tactical Squad
Flamer, HB=170
Dedicated Transport:
3xRhino+SB=135

Total: 1505

Everyone has a vehicle, and you have 4 scoring units. Put Pedro in with the SG and have them roll around for fun of all sorts.

I don't know, man. I think Extra Armor on a Land Raider is pretty much a no brainer. I know it's expensive, but so is the vehicle it's going on. If you're going to put 250 points into a vehicle, you might as well go the extra mile to make sure it could move.

It's infuriating to have a LR full of Terminators just sitting there doing nothing.

So JEB_Stuart what your saying is I need to prepare my squads to both be able to shoot with the heavy weapon and be good in combat by giving the sergeant a powerfist?

@ Monster Rain
I was thinking about a teleport homer for the other squad of terminators

I do watch a lot of battles at my local GW and from what I've seen people don't know how to easily kill terminators and extra armour is everything because you buy a unit transport and it spends a turn stood still because I didn't fork out 15 points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also have a question, are razorbacks really worth it? plus can you buy a razorback for a squad of 10 but use combat squad to put in it and have the other half of the squad shooting from somewhere else

DC_Ravenor wrote:HQ
Epistolary Librarian with Terminator armour and a Storm Bolter 180

Drop the Epistolary it's to expensive, drop the Storm bolter, and get a Storm Shield. Librarian are a great HQ choice.

Troops
Tactical Squad, 10 marines with a lascannon 180

Tactical Squad, 10 marines with a lascannon 180

Tactical Squad, 10 marines sergeant with a powerfist in a rhino 220

All Tacticals should be in a transport of some kind and always take a special weapon, Meltagun are the best but the Flamer free

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad, 5 terminators in a land raider with extra armour 465

Terminator Squad, 5 terminators with a cyclone missile launcher 230

What do your Assualt Terminators have for weapons. I personally like 3 Thunder Hammers and 2 Lightning Claws. Not a huge fan of Regular Terminators.

I would drop the Regular Terminators get more Rhinos, finish equipping your Tactical Squads, and if you got some points squeeze in some Fast Attack (i.e. Attack Bikes, Land Speeders) for some early tank busting. Land Speeders are best to soak up some Heavy weapons fire while your Land Raider and Rhinos move up.

General Chaos you talking about cheap cheap land speeders or buy them a multimelta and hopefully take out a *tank in first turn?


I was going to go with 3 LC and 2 TH/SS

DC_Ravenor wrote:General Chaos you talking about cheap cheap land speeders or buy them a multimelta and hopefully take out a *tank in first turn?


I was going to go with 3 LC and 2 TH/SS

I would go at least a multi-melta but a MM/Heavy Flamer a great combo

Right this is the next update to the list it is as follows;

HQ
Epistolary Librarian Terminator Armour and a Storm Shield 165

Troops
Tactical Squad; 10 Marines, Lascannon and a Meltagun 185

Tactical Squad; 10 Marines, Lascannon and a Plasmagun 190

Tactical Squad; 10 Marines, Flamer, Sergeant with a Powerfist in a Rhino 220

Scout Squad; 5 Scouts, 4 sniper rifles, Missile launcher, 5 Camo Cloaks 100

Elites
Dreadnought; Assault cannon and a Heavy flamer 125

Terminator A Squad; 3 Lightening claws and 2 Thunder hammer/Storm shield, Land raider, Extra Amour 465

Fast Attack
Attack Bike Squad; 1 Bike, Multi-melta 50

1500pt

I liked where you were going more originally with the Drop Troops, but these folks have made some good suggestions. Let me see if I can add anything based on your current list.

What's your plan with the Epistolary Librarian? You never list powers, so I assume you want to mix and match game to game, which is cool, but having played with a Terminator Librarian before myself, I have to say, Epistolary status is often 50 points wasted. Unless you have a really sneaky plan that includes two necessary powers a turn (GoI/Avenger or Machine Curse being one, MoA/Quickening being another) you're wasting the points on a "just in case" use for a Force Weapon pop. I'd say keep him simple a cheap. Librarian in TDA w/ Storm Bolter is 130 points, and synergizes well with Terminators x 5 w/ CML when Gating around. But then again, if you've got a cool sneaky plan for him, don't let me distract you from it.

Oh, and a quick note on your Captain from before. Captains get a bad rap so often, but remember, they are decent CC characters with higher initiative, higher WS, more Attacks, and more Wounds than a normal marine, and a built in 4++. Don't sacrifice that Initiative 5 with a Powerfist. A Relic Blade/Storm Shield, Lightning Claws, and Powerweapon/Plasma Pistol are all better options. Typically cheaper is better, and being suited to Assault, points you spend on a Captain's shooting ability are wasted if you use him right.

Tactical Lascannons are... iffy at best. I'd suggest replacing a couple of them with Plasma Cannons. Also, always give your Tacs a free heavy weapon, at least. You don't loose anything but a single bolt shot on disembarkation and get a free can opener. I would suggest Rhinos or Razorbacks for your Tacs. Mobility is something the Marines need. Being the Emprahs mightiest weapon incarnate doesn't do you any good if you're two klicks from the action and humping it. Only base-guarding Tacticals should be left without transports if you need to shave points.

Scouts, oh how I lament the nerfing of Scouts. I have the exact unit you've described, 5 guys, camo cloaks, Snipers, and ML. It underperforms for me every time. You may have better luck, but 4 shots at 4+/4+ just to get a wound really bites me, and a single rocket just never seems to be enough. I'm fleshing my unit out to 10 men with Telion, 8 SR, and a Heavy Bolter (for that Hellfire shell). I've yet to try it, but I think it might be more effective (and still only 200 points).

I like the Dreadnought. A Drop Pod might help it get into range to do some hurting a little faster, though. A 24" range leaves it lacking against enemy anti-tank fire. A Twin-Linked Lascannon/Storm Bolter Dreadnought has done very well for me in the past as a home base defender, adding to my firebase. You may think about switching if you decide to remove the Lascannons in the Tactical squads.

Love the Terminators, of course. Since they're Assault Terminators, I'd think you'd do better with a Redeemer or Crusader, but whatever suits your taste. EA is absolutely worth it, and I consider the pintle mounted Multi-Melta a shoe-in upgrade, too. A Terminator Chaplain is the same price as your Librarian without the Epistolary honors, and goes a long way towards multiplying the damage output of the Assault Terminators. His WS5 Powerweapon isn't shabby, nor is his 4++. I've tried Marneus Calgar in a Redeemer with 5 Terminators before, and it's just not as impressive as a Chaplain with them. Terminators are not known for having a large quantity of attacks, they're known for high quality attacks (Str 8 or re-rolling wounding powerweapons). What they don't have is any guarantee to hit. The Chaplain makes sure those charging attacks hit, and the Terminators handle the rest.

Attack Bike with Multi-Melta - good choice. Very efficient. My only objection would be that it's very un-synergized with the rest of the list. You can get this for 50 points, or a mobile Multi-Melta on a pintle mount on the Land Raider for 10. If you just need a 50 points shoehorn, though, it's probably the best one.

Just some thoughts from a fellow Marine player.

Good luck! The Emperor Protects!

So... i dont really think the epistolary upgrade is worth its points... second, i dont like plasma weapons in space marine armies. Its just personal preference, dont seek any reason in here. Third tactical squad... buy them at least that free missile launcher. Every tactical sarge wants a power fist. Consider combi weapons too. I think they rock. Buy more rhinos. One rhino on its own will bet blown. Dreadnought is ... kind of awkward. I find it really easy to blow him from distance or just pass him... without droppod he will not get where he wants. I think thunder hammers are better than lighting claws. The lone biker... whats his purpose? In turn 1 there will be a krak missile instakilling him right away, points wasted. Land rider with termies is going to move 12 forward so i dont think it will fire its two lascannons anytime soon. What about crusader with multimelta? I think its better (but really common :( )

for the razorbacks what would you recommend to give them or just leave them with TL-HB

I found that 3 full troop units are sufficient at the 1500 pt level.
For this, I'd take 2 full Tacticals and 1 full Scout unit with
5 sniper rifles and missile launcher, led by a Serg with melta bombs.
Moreover, I'd down grade the Librarian to a Codicier.
This would give you room for more support units, like
Assault Bikes, Dreads, Vindicators, or Preds.

Ok first off, never EVER mix up assault terminator weapons. unless you have a full 10 man squad which you combat squad. they are way to easy to pick off if only a few have SSs. personally i prefer all TH/SS. with a 2+ armor save small srms fire will be useless against you except in mass volume. and with a 3+ invuln you can laugh off attacks that ignore armor. LCs are great against enemys which don't have an effective counter to 2+ armor saves.

Librarians are the bomb. If you are playing against eldar or any army that has high inititive or good armor saves i have a set up for you.

Terminator armor and a storm shield, Epistolary(against eldar this is handy) and for powers, gate of infinity and the quickining.

Stick your libby in some terminators(any kind) Gate of infinity into the enemy lines.

You will most likely survive the enemy retalitory shooting if you take assault terminators with TH/SS

in your next phase cast quickining

because of quickining you will be fleet and the libby will have inititive 10. (i don't remember if the unit the libby's with becomes fleet too) if it dosn't just detatch and have the terminators foot slog. this will all but insure a assault on turn 2.


taking an epistolary is good if casting a power and using a force weapon in the same turn would be useful. personally the epistolary is overpriced, 25 pts would be better IMO

Libbys are fragile, but it is worth paying the price of an Invuln save.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
On Razorbacks, yes you can take them on a 10 man squad.

For the price a plain razorback is a bargin.

Razorbacks are great when paired with Devestators or command squads. a heavy bolter or lascannon is the best choice for a devestator squad. an assault cannon is great for a command squad.

remember to use cover for razorbacks, they are just as fragile as rhinos and unless you can distract your opponents anti-tank with somthing big he will probably target your razorbacks in an attempt to knock out the heavy gun.

What's everyone opinions on whirlwinds?

your right SS are worth paying for thanks to the saves they give

DC_Ravenor wrote:What's everyone opinions on whirlwinds?

your right SS are worth paying for thanks to the saves they give

for the same points as a Whirlwind you can take a Predator with an Autocannon and Heavy Bolters. The Whirlwind is good at anti-infantry while the Dakka Pred is good at both anti-infantry, has the ability to pop transport, and has better armour.

DC_Ravenor wrote:What's everyone opinions on whirlwinds?

Whirlwinds? Decent choice if in cover or out of sight lines, but their armour is pretty suspect. I prefer a Dakka pred. - Cheaper too.

I was thinking of having a whirlwind purely for the anti infantry, this is where I wish I collected IG because the new leman russ' are multi-funtional depending on the turret you give them plus they have good armour.

if theres cover on the board then the predators firing will be limited and moving at all means I lose use of sponsons or the turret.

do sponsons count as two weapons or a pair so you could fire both as the one weapon you want to fire?

Whirlwinds would be more attractive to me if they had the same armor as a predator. their weapon is decent, but mounted on a rhino chassies makes it very fragile.

other than the fact that it can fire without LoS and ignores cover it dosen't have much going for it. A dakka pred will last longer and therefore kill more infantry, and the pred can hurt vehicles if it has to, the whirlwind can't.

A whirlwind has to hide behind cover to survive and that means it will lose some accurracy.


if the whirlwind had missiles that could damage vehicles and had better range and armor it would be more attractive.


I would only take it against orks and nids if i took one at all. against other foes it has to compete with more effective choices like LRs and Preds, heck even devestators are more attractive.


Sponsons are seperate weapons from each other, so a dakka pred can move and fire both sponsons or the auto-cannon while a canopener pred can only fire one weapon if it moves, but they generally don't have to move far.

Whirlwinds are really nice. Predators serve different role..

HQ
Chaplain; Terminator armour, storm bolter = 155

Troops
Tactical Squad; 10 Marines, Lascannon, Meltagun = 185

Tactical Squad; 10 Marines, Lascannon, Meltagun = 185

Tactical Squad; 10 Marines, Powerfist, Flamer = 185

Tactical Squad; 7 Marines, Powerfist, Plasmagun = 185

Elites

Terminator Assault Squad; 5 Terminators, 3LC, 2TH/SS, Land Raider, Extra Armour, Multi-melta = 475

Heavy support

Whirlwind = 85

Whirlwind = 85

Total 1500

Your refined list looks much stronger to me.

I really like the Termi squad. It's a nice balance and mobile too with the LR. Personally, I'd go 2 LC, 3 TH/SS but it really depends on your play style.

It looks to me like you're going for the Marine Gun-line style here, which can be effective. I would worry that in objective based missions, you might not be mobile enough with your scoring units.

I'd suggest dropping the 4th smaller tac squad and pick up some Rhino's or Razorbacks. You still have the option of splitting into combat squads that way and you could easily transport your troops to their objectives.

But all in all, seems very solid to me.