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Hey all,
So, while other ("normal") people would watch Friends or the like to unwind, I tend to read Military SF, and have just finished my most recent purchase. I figured, what better place to get and share recommendations than Dakka?

I've avoided giving much detail on each series in this first post to keep it brief, assuming a lot of you will be familiar with many of the series I have listed, but will happily give more insight upon request.
I'd like to leave GW fiction out of this thread, as we all know it's awesome.

I'll start with my particular favourite sub-genre, those stories heavily influenced by C.S. Forrester's Hornblower novels.
Series I've read at least one novel from:

-The Honor Harrington novels and several spin-offs, by David Weber - Probably the best series for exciting battles, tactics, setting, tech and space warfare. Unfortunately, the characterisation and dialogue is like reading a Fanfic. Most of them can be found for free online which is a bonus.

-The Seafort Saga by David Feintuch - very enjoyable, better written than the HH series, but less satisfying as the combat is much less exciting. Still to get hold of any books after the 1st one. Apparently he becomes annoyingly emo later on though.

-The RCN series by David Drake - Really good, a fair bit of swearing and good characters, although the battles once again fall a tiny bit short of HH, and as a result are probably more believable. Just finished the first one and looking forward to more.


Onto non-napoleonic series:

-The Dorsai series by Gordon R Dickinson - really good stuff, good characters with a sense of mystery and powerful forces at work.

-Falkenburg's Legion (CoDominium) series by S.M. Stirling - also brilliant, got a lot in common with Dorsai! at first glance, and loads of 'feel' you'd find in good military fiction.

-The Forever War by Joe Haldeman - a really good Vietnam critique. thoroughly worth reading, a real masterwork.

-Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card - Phenomenal. The rest of the series is just plain SciFi, but still worth reading, as it has some of the best interpretations of aliens I've ever read. Read it or apologise to your imagination for failing at life.

- Starship Troopers by Robert A Henlein - I believe this is still required reading at a US officer training school. See my last sentence about Ender's Game.

Those are all the ones I can remember off the top of my head. I've got David Drake's 'Hammer's Slammers' series around, not been able to get into it yet due to a slight cheesy feel to it at first read, but I know it gets better so will try again sometime soon.

So, anyone got any opinions on the above series, or more importantly, recommendations for my next Amazon order?

Thanks in advance.

The Republic Commando novels by Karen Traviss.

Quite like David Drake's stuff.

The CoDominium stuff is also good.
I also wholeheartedly recommend you read "Armor" by John Steakley if you haven't. I'll happily sit it alongside the Starship Troopers and Forever War books.

Dorsai I read back in High school - pre 40k (as in 40k did not exist yet, not before I got into it) and did have some good bits.

Don't forget David Drake's earlier masterpiece, "Forlorn Hope". It puts ordinary soldiers with all their flaws intact in a frankly horrific and untenable situation, but they win out in the end just because they stubbornly keep doing what it is that they do.

Dune

Forget the name. But when my house was snowed in I read this great book about this soviet spy.

I'll look it up, don't even remember the authors name if someone from dakka knows what I'm talking about i'd appreciate it.

John Steakley: Armor.

I heard that Starship Troopers inspired both Haldeman and Steakley, to write books about far-future soldiers utterly unlike ST, but also awesome. Actually, I'm not in love with The Forever War, though it's cool. While ST and Armor are two of my all-time favorite books. Heinlein's short story The Long Watch is also fantastic.

For the others mentioned above, I enjoyed the Dorsai stuff, and concur that Ender's Game is a must. I think I like Speaker for the Dead even better nowadays, but it's not military SF. I seem to recall enjoying Joel Rosenberg's Not For Glory when I read it, but I was a teenager, so no telling if it holds up still.

Tanya Huff's Valor Confederation books are pretty decent. Light fun.

I would have to say

Dune

and

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress


Are the best Sci-Fi Books ever written.

Third place goes to enders game.

Neither of those is military SF, though. Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a bit similar, as they're planning and executing a rebellion, but the protagonists aren't military personnel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_science_fiction

Those are all awesome books though.

Actually, that reminds me of Heinlein's novella If This Goes On-, which I really enjoyed, and is centered on a military protagonist involved in a revolution. Another great SF book that's not actually Military SF but has an (ex) military protagonist is Walter Jon Williams' Voice of the Whirlwind.

Try Starship Troopers for an interesting spin on facists. Heinlein was at the peak of his prowess when he wrote this novel.

G

Neither of those is military SF, though. Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a bit similar, as they're planning and executing a rebellion, but the protagonists aren't military personnel.

How can they not be considered military fiction?

Both protagonist lead armies, are you suggesting that in order to classify something as military fiction there has to be an amy sanctioned by some sort of ruling body? If so dune still has a claim...

Who are you addressing?

G

Mann. I edited the quote in.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Who are you addressing?

G

I believe he is addressing Mannahnin.

Cool! While the protagonists did see them themselves as militaristic (sp?) they were for all intensive purposes.

G

For good military fiction I like Tom Clancy. The Splinter Cell books remind me of 40k novels (which isn't a bad thing mind you; just a little faster pace) but his books made into movies are good (Hunt for Red October is a lot better novel than the movie was).

Not Sci-Fi military books, but Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey and Maturin novels are terrific. Life on a ship of the line was hard, and required a very rigid hierarchy and structure. To me, the series represents the idea that even out-manned and out-gunned, a determined and clever officer can turn things to his advantage. The movie Master and Commander is based on the books. This American even cheers for the underdog British tars...

There are 20 books in the series, so it's a a time investment, but O'Brian does an incredible job of really putting you in the era. I feel like I have a working knowledge of the ship of the line in the early 1800's, as well as battle tactics, spy techniques, and political maneuvering large and small.

David Weber: Starfire series, Old Soldiers, Honorverse, Safehold series.

John Birmingham: Axis of Time series.

John Ringo: Paladin of Shadows series (extremely NSFW-graphic violence and dom/sub themes), Looking Glass seris, Council War series.

Requires a bit more of a nerd factor to it, but the Halo novels are very well-done. Especially the later ones, which actually get the names of all the Covenant right, instead of using the imposed human names. I strongly recommend Contact Harvest, the first (chronological) novel in the series. It is quite epic, and it essentially explains how the first contact went between the humans and the Covenant.

Put simply:
If you're going to read the Halo books?

Don't read "The Flood". The ones by Eric Nylund are the only ones worth reading.
Ghosts of Onyx, First Strike, Contact Harvest, and Cole Protocol are the 'best' ones so far. And insofar as the fact that the earlier ones used the human designators--the Covenant subspecies hadn't actually yet been named, at least until First Strike.

Footfall: Nothing says loving like the USA and USSr going toe to toe with Alien Red Menace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footfall
The book depicts the arrival of members of an alien species called the Fithp that have traveled to our solar system from Alpha Centauri in a large spacecraft driven by a Bussard ramjet. The aliens are intent on taking over the Earth.

Clthomps: That’s why I linked to the Wiki definition.

Military science fiction is a subgenre of science fiction in which the principal characters are members of a military service and an armed conflict is taking place, normally in space, or on another planet. A detailed depiction of the conflict, the tactics used to wage it, and the role of a military service and the individual members of that service forms the basis for a work of military science fiction. The stories often take features of actual past or current Earth conflicts, with countries being replaced by entire planets or galaxies of similar characteristics, battleships replaced by space battleships and certain events changed so that the author can extrapolate on what might have occurred.

IMO, neither tMisHM nor Dune really fit the genre. While both feature military actions, they’re not centered on military personnel. tMiaHM is centered entirely on civilians involved in a rebellion against their tyrannical government. Dune is centered on intrigue, political maneuvering, and battle between noble houses, and the main character is a prophet/superhuman. While he does lead people in armed conflict, he’s not a soldier, and the book spends very little or no time talking about tactics, the chain of command, and related areas which a military story usually focuses on. Its themes are really larger. Again, I love both of those books, but I don’t think they really fit into the subgenre the OP was talking about. IMO "military fiction" tends to spend some time on the particular types of issues and challenges that arise between officers, between officers and enlisted, in the impact of battle on the psyche, in motivating combat troops, and that kind of stuff. Some is lighter and some grittier, but those are really common elements in what I recognize as military fiction.

GBF: I disagree that ST is about facism. The movie is about facism, but Verhoeven was pissing on Heinlein’ grave, as far as I’m concerned. My favorite essay on this one:

http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm

Kirby: Great call. I’m right in the middle of book 10 right now (The Far Side of the World- same title as the movie, though the movie is actually a mix of stuff from three or four of the books). They’re not SF, but they’re outstanding historical military fiction.

The High Crusade is a wonderful and quick military sci-fi novel. Aliens attempt to invade while a medieval crusading army is getting ready to go to the Holy Lands. The aliens are surprised and overwhelmed, at which point it becomes medieval knights with sci-fi tech versus an alien empire. It is equal parts hilarious and thought provoking.

Old Man's War by John Scalzi is quite great. Hilarious writing in parts too. The other books in the series are quite a read as well.

First up, thanks to everyone for the massive response - I actually put off responding for a while because I knew it would eat up some precious daylight.
Apologies to anyone I don't respond to individually, it's because I'm a massive loser.

@ Kanluwen - I'm always happy to check out other forms of tie-in fiction, especially if it's in the milscifi genre, and wikipedia certainly says good things. I'll put it on my 'saved items to buy later' list. Star Wars was never my favourite universe (blasphemy, I know) but there's still a whole mess of cool stuff hidden away in it.

@ Chromedog - Armor sounds like a cracker then. Glad to see you've read similar stuff, I'll put Armor near the top of my list. Can you give me a brief sales pitch?

@ Warpcrafter - Folorn Hope sounds very much my bag, just from the title alone. Thanks for the reccomendation

@ Ahtman - you're going to hate me for this, but... *flinches from expected slap* Dune has been on my shelf for about 4 years, unread. I know it's not really milscifi, but it is brilliant, a huge influence on the creation of 40K, and a must-read. I will consider myself auto-chastised if that satisfies everyone's honour.
Also, love the image! Already shown it to my housemates due to its joyful nature. Does Lego make everything cooler, or is it just me?

@ Shadowbrand - can you remember any more detail? That might help jog our memories.

@ Mannahin - The Long watch sounds interesting. I get what you mean about The Forever War not being amazing as a Sci-Fi book, but I think it does what it set out to do magnificently, and for people not into scifi it's a great intro, and should still be read even though it won't immerse you as wonderfully as others - Downward to the Earth by Robert Silverburg is one example I can think of off the top of my head.
I read all milscifi as light fun, so might not prioritise the Valor Confederation as high (depending on price), but I will stick it on the list all the same. Cheers!
Latest post: Thanks for posting that explanation, part of the reason I took so long replying to y'all was dreading putting something like that together from scratch, and you did it for me. Joy! Verhoeven's film had nothing to do with Henlein really, he was just using it as a vehicle the way he always does - to talk about America, or at least the America he sees. Thus all the adverts in that film and Robocop. Every big fan of Henlein I know hates that film, but I enjoyed it. By the same token, I hated V for Vendetta when it came out, while most people enjoyed it.... Must...Not...RantaboutVforVendetta....

@ Clthomps - Read Downward to the Earth then. Incredibly atmospheric and addictive. Gateway as well. Just in case you haven't already
I'll look up 'The Moon...' as well, since you rate it so highly.

@ Fateweaver - I've not tried Tom Clancy, I've always classified him more as a thriller writer than milscifi. I find that genre hit-and-miss, but I know there's always Clancy's kicking around the local charity shops, so will steer that way on my next impulse buy. Thanks for the tip!

@ Krak_Kirby - I've not ever read the books, but I know they're a huge influence on quite a few of the titles I've listed, and also that they fit in very tightly into my needs. One of my housemates says he's got some of them at his folks' house, I'll ask him to bring them back next time he visits them. And stuff like that actually fits more with the 'feel' of milscifi than things like Dune.
Have you played Empire: Total War? I always like to think that the amount of Hornblower I've read will make me kickass at the naval combat, but I've never tried so that could just be my ego talking.

@ Iron_Chaos_Brute - The only David Weber I've tried in the Honorverse stuff, and I love the things I listed above enough to keep reading them, despite being endlessly enraged by my above reasons to complain. I'll give those other titles a try, but not until I've exhausted every other font of milscifi with less annoying ( ing treecats!) characters. I'm still going to get the new Honor book when it comes out though
I forgot to mention the Axis of Time books! they're awesome, I ate them up as fast as they came out. I love his grasp for social and political issues - although precisely because of how good he is at that, I don't see it as strictly milscifi. Now if they'd been catapulted to another planet, and forced to wage war depending only on each other in dire conditions, *that* would've fitted the genre. Can you pitch those John Ringo books for me in a little more depth?

@ Locclo - I'll check 'em out, with the added guidance from Kankluwen. I never got into the games, having never owned an Xbox or bought up-to-date PC games (apart from the Civilisation series), but if they're proper milscifi, they should appeal all the same.

@ Frazzled - Cheers chief. Sounds like Independence Day with a bit more of a hard scifi edge. Plus, hilariously named aliens make a series look good to me thanks to Ender's Game. "Nooooo! The Buggers are coming! Batten down your ringpieces.... No, Wait...." If you like Stars'n'Stripes'n'Sickles, have you read any CoDominium books?

@ Gitzbita - I heard about that story a while ago, it sounds awesome! Definitely going to look for that now that you've reminded me. Ta!

@ Jin - I've known about Old Man War for a while, but not ordered it yet. What is it that appeals so much to you about it?


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, I'm spent.

Thanks gents of the webs!

I'm just realizing that I misread the thread title
I skipped right over "science"
Most of it is milscifi anyway

Weber: Starfire series has no ing treecats, it's a different "universe" (I agree completely )

That said, Paladin of Shadows is modern mil fiction, no sci fi, but if you like reading about killing Islamic terrorists

Looking Glass series: basic premise, gates to other worlds sart opening on earth. Aggro alien attack ensues. Humanity eventually gets spaceships, adventures happen

Council Wars: basic premise, the council of people that control the earth's AI watcher go to war. Most of humanity is plunged back to a medievil tech level, while still retaining knowledge of lost tech. There is still sci fi all over, though.

Captain Roderick wrote:

@ Chromedog - Armor sounds like a cracker then. Glad to see you've read similar stuff, I'll put Armor near the top of my list. Can you give me a brief sales pitch?

It's about a guy called Felix, who's an armour trooper. He has a knack for it.
He's issued with a scout suit (really light PA) and pretty much written off (scouts have a tendency to get blown to smithereens).
He survives. Many times. Gets to the point where he is considered a "good luck symbol" for the troops.

(Been a while since I read it - gotta get around to re-reading it, actually).

Captain Roderick wrote:@ Locclo - I'll check 'em out, with the added guidance from Kankluwen. I never got into the games, having never owned an Xbox or bought up-to-date PC games (apart from the Civilisation series), but if they're proper milscifi, they should appeal all the same.

Honestly? The games are kind of dull, even on Legendary (Not that it's not hard, mind you). Most levels fall into a pattern of run through the level, kill absolutely everything, finish the level. The original Halo wasn't too bad about it (It had a decent storyline, at the very least) but once the humans got to the second Halo in Halo 2, the plot was basically copy+pasted from the first game.

Incidentally, I didn't think the Flood was that bad. It was a nice insight as to what the feth was going on behind the scenes on Halo, since the game itself provides exactly zilch in that department. Plus, IIRC, it does have some of the most badass marines (Albeit stupid) that you'll ever see - I believe one man and his squad challenge a fleet of Banshees by themselves, all armed with rocket launchers. Oh, and another guy manages to pick off (I think) at least three Wraith tanks by blind-firing a Scorpion main gun.

No mention of Keith Laumer's Bolo series? Or Hammer's Slammers, which I think is by David Drake?

Locclo wrote:

Captain Roderick wrote:@ Locclo - I'll check 'em out, with the added guidance from Kankluwen. I never got into the games, having never owned an Xbox or bought up-to-date PC games (apart from the Civilisation series), but if they're proper milscifi, they should appeal all the same.

Honestly? The games are kind of dull, even on Legendary (Not that it's not hard, mind you). Most levels fall into a pattern of run through the level, kill absolutely everything, finish the level. The original Halo wasn't too bad about it (It had a decent storyline, at the very least) but once the humans got to the second Halo in Halo 2, the plot was basically copy+pasted from the first game.

Incidentally, I didn't think the Flood was that bad. It was a nice insight as to what the feth was going on behind the scenes on Halo, since the game itself provides exactly zilch in that department. Plus, IIRC, it does have some of the most badass marines (Albeit stupid) that you'll ever see - I believe one man and his squad challenge a fleet of Banshees by themselves, all armed with rocket launchers. Oh, and another guy manages to pick off (I think) at least three Wraith tanks by blind-firing a Scorpion main gun.

I won't deny that Flood had some AMAZING action. And that "blindfired" Scorpion was placed exactly so that the Covenant wouldn't notice it, same with the squad challenging the Banshees.

It was all about the UNSCMC bringin' the hurt.

But yeah. The Republic Commando books are good...and give an insight we've never really seen. That of the clones themselves.

Ignoring Traviss' infatuation with the Mandalorians, of course.