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I got Yriel for christmas, and I like the model alot, so I've been trying to write a prospective list around him so that I can plan my future purchases to augment what I already have.

slightly off topic, but am I the only person who has trouble with the sunburst yellow paint? It just doesn't seem to go on, and it really drives me insane... especially painting most of a warlock yellow... gahhhh

anyway the list I was thinking of building up to at 2000 points looks something like this.

HQ: 253
Yriel
Farseer- Warding, Doom, spear

Elites: 583
8 Howling Banshees- Exarch, executioner
Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon, stones

5 Wraithguard w/ Lock- spear, conceal
Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon, stones

Troops: 819
10 Storm Guardians w/ Lock- 2 flamers, destructor
Wave Serpent- tl eml, stones

10 Storm Guardians w/ Lock- 2 Fusion Guns, Enhance, Spear
Wave Serpent- tl eml, stones

10 Dire Avengers- exarch, duel cats, bladestorm
Wave Serpent- tl lance, stones

Heavy Support: 345
3 Fire Prisms

Total: 2000 points, 15 kill points, 8 tanks

Farseer and yriel will ride with whoever depending on how I feel at the begining of the game... haha, but most likely farseer with the banshees or avengers, and yriel with a storm guardian squad.

I could replace the wraithguard entirely with a 5 man dragon squad and 5 pathfinders to hold an objective, but that just doesn't seem as deliciously flavorful as wraithguard.

so rate and hate

I like the list might have prombles with not having enough guys for objects vs nids or Orks.

It just seems that any time you try to deliver a hit, your going to take it in return.


Elites

Wraightguard, what is the real reason they are in this list? If your planning on trying to drop something big with them. Remeber the range and whats going to happen after your turn is over. Personally I would up your troop count with another DA mech unit.

I would also look at trying to find the points to put guide on the Farseer. That would give you a tactical option in case the farseer feels like riding along with the DA unit. Guide and Doom on a 30 man ork unit after it has taken a few Fire Prism hits should be able to finish it off with ease.

Yriel, Farseer and the Banshees seem a bit on the over kill side. Though I dont know what they have at your local gaming area to really call this one. To me, I would look at maybe adding in something else to support Yriel and or taking the FArseer out for the extra points. Then again Doom is a big nasty.

HQ: 253
Yriel
Farseer- Warding, Doom, spear

Elites: 583
8 Howling Banshees- Exarch, executioner
Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon, stones

5 Wraithguard w/ Lock- spear, conceal
Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon, stones

Elite choices are rather bad.
I'd take a Seer Council led by a Farseer with fortune and doom
mounted in a Serpent.
Let Yriel join this unit.
Upon disembarking you could let Yriel go on his own,
charging a doomed unit, using his eye of wrath.

Add a FD unit in a Serpent for anti-heavy-tank.

Hi there,

I've been playing Eldar for many years and though I like the idea of Storm Guardians and the models (I have converted 24 of them with different wood elf heads and arms) I find them to be almost completely useless.

The only thing they are good for when I have used them is giving them no upgrades for a relatively cheap squad to sit on an objective. There bad save, S and T means even if they charge in they ussually get beat down. Although that maybe because 9/10 times I play against Marines or Chaos Marines.

If you are gonna take them with locks I would advise Conceal may be worthwhile as the majority of weapons wound on 3's and give no armor save against them.

IMO Scorpions are better than Banshees but both are good. Also I would take a Wraithlord instead of 1 of the Prisms. They soak up so much Fire and if they are allowed to get close can be devastating

Good Luck!

Storm Guardians are special but not useless.
If you field them in a mech army rolling up one flank,
they are quite useful if you give them 2 flamers and
eventually attach a Warlock with destructor.

I fully understand that wraithguard are less than competitive, but I primarily wanted to include them for fluffy aethetic reasons. I'll probably end up buying a box of fire dragons and running them and my pathfinders in more serious games.

Also why is there a negative opinion on banshees? they've been rather effective in games I've played with them, and I've relied on fleet more than enough times. My reasoning was essentially, I need a melee unit, all my troops kill either vehicles or horde, so I figured banshees would fit in better giving me something to charge into elite troops/units, is this wrong?

I'm kind of hesitant on adding a council, as I have plans for converting a jet council for when I build up to 2500 points... but I've got a bit of a ways to go before I'm up for that.

troops looks solid exept for the fusion gun Stormies, change them to either DAs or give them flamers and destructors. Storm Guardians DO NOT belong in HtH...

Elites, get three dragon squads instead.

Maybe something like this?

HQ:365
Yriel = 155
Eldrad = 210

Elites:580

5xDragons = 80
Serpent (Stones+Cannons) = 110

5xDragons = 80
Serpent (Stones+Cannons) = 110

5xDragons = 80
Serpent (Stones+Cannons+Cannon) = 120

Troops:634
10xDAs (Bladestorm+Defend+Shimmershield) = 177
Serpent (Stones+Scatter+Cannon) = 135

5xDAs = 60

10xStorm Guardians (2xFlamers+Warlock+Destructor) = 127
Serpent (Stones+Scatter+Cannon) = 135

Heavy:420
2xFire prisms = 230
Falcon (Holo+BL+Stones) = 190

Yriel goes in the serpent with the DAs. Eldrad can be deployed in the Falcon or some troop serpent. I like 3 TL str 8 hits from the falcon tho. Will rape any oblits or similar stuff...

This list all depends on if your going fluff on not. If going fluff then 3 wraithlords and a some wraithguard troops. If done right it can be competitive, but this list I wouldn't say is very flufftastic. 55 living bodies dedicated to a single small battle when almost all of the Craftworld population is dead?

I'm not super concerned with being fluffy. Eldar are my first army, and I want to construct something that wins games first and foremost and fluffy second to that desire.

The reason for this is that as my very first army, and a finesse army, I'm trying to develop good habbits, I still lose all the time, but I do feel like I'm benefiting as a player.

I am hesitant to run a falcon, as it costs alot more than a fire prism (the tank alone costs 185 or so, and it practically needs a guide seer or eldrad to guide it to make up for its mediocre balistic skill)... and I've heard that prisms stack amazingly well.

Anyway, the battle plan I am envisioning, is due to the powerful but short ranged shooting of eldar troops, I was going to surge the entire army at shooty foes, or play keep away from guys who can beat me up close.

My reasoning for the enhance storm guardians is that they make a decent body guard for Yriel. the 2 melta guns along with the lock's bs4 spear and yriel's bs5 spear make for a solid close range tank hunting unit, and 8 points for a ws4 initiative 5 model with 2 attacks does not seems like a bad deal, especially considering the amount of things I WANT to charge into melee with like tau, guard, and other elf

If fluff isn't a concern then drop the Wraithguard, you'll find that their range is subpar and their point cost is amazingly high for something a fire dragon unit can do. yes, they can take shots, but all the enemy needs to do is get you in CC and they become rather useless.

Storm Guardians are terrible... period. Taking them with Yriel actually would be a liability. If you get into CC with anything, but Tau you'll get your head crushed in and SM is probably be what your typically fighting if you play outside of a close knit grp of friends. 2 attacks at s3 I5 is like urinating on power armor marines. Yriel will get in there and bash heads in, but the counter attack will be against your guardians. You could actually lose the combat that Yriel just decimated because so many guardians die to the survivors. 2 spears and 2 meltas (at BS3) is good against a single vehicle at 6 inches, but you'll get slaughtered in return.

To take real advantage of Yriel you'll want him in combo with a Farseer and council.

Falcons honestly are not worth the points unless you have something that needs to stay in the most durable vehicle possible and points don't mean much to do it. 3 Prisms will jack up a whole lotta people's dreams.

While the falcon costs as much as two prisms when you have 5 DAs in it, it is more durable than the Prism but most importantly it is scoring.

If you want scoring take 5 DA in a Serpent.

Falcon w/ BL, Stones, and Holos = 190
Serpent w/ BL, Stones (Energy Field) = 145

The survivability gap is barely in favor of the Falcon. (Melta heavy environment, Doesn't help prevent glance/pen from occurring)
The firepower is barely in favor of the falcon (+2 S8 AP2 shots, but BS 3 and all not twin linked, will be shaken alot)
The point cost is heavily in favor of Serpent. (45 pts is practically a 25% increase)
The Falcon takes up a heavy slot of which is the most heavily contested for eldar.

The point about Storm Guardians in combat isn't correct. In the games I've used them, they perform admirably in assault, even against things like warpspiders. In light of this I ran some mathhammer, turns out storm guardians and yriel statistically beat Marines by a good margin, and the Storm guardians do solidly.

Assuming a 10 storm guardian squad with 2 melta guns, and a warlock with enhance and spear, charge into a squad of 10 marines + a sarge and fist

Long story short, the enhance guardians and yriel will statistically drag down 4.62 marines, and lose 2.05 guardians from return hits,

with the yriel present, his plasma grenades negate any benefits cover would give, and enhance's ws 4 and i5 actually give the guardians a fighting chance.

tldr:the mathhammer is as follows, read if you want to double check me.

each guardian gets 3 attacks on the charge except for the 2 heavy weapons who get two means:
28 attacks
hitting on 4s makes 14 hits
wounding on 5+ makes 4.6 wounds
3+ save makes 1.55 dead marines
The warlock gets 2 attacks
hitting on 3s makes 1.32 hits
wounding on 2s makes 1.1 wounds
3+ save makes .37 dead marines
The guardians finish hitting with 1.92 dead marines on average
assuming we have Yriel in the squad, 5 attacks 3.3 hits, 2.7 dead marines

The total for yriel and the guardians tallies up to about 4.62 dead marines on average.

Marines counter attack
4.38 attacks
hitting on 4s: 2.19 hits
wounding on 3s: 1.44 wounds
5+ save means .95 dead
sarge has 2 attacks
hits on 3s: 1.32 hits
wounding on 2s: 1.1
no save 1.1 dead
totalling 2.05 dead guardians.

granted everything comes down to dice rolls. But the dice are actually strongly in favor of the guardians winning this engagement due to the superior number of attacks.

If you are having your Falcon within melta range then you are doing something fundamentaly wrong...
As for the falcon beeing shaken alot, Id rather be shaken then having a weapon destroyed or even the whole thing exploded....

The point of the falcon in this list is to have something besides the dragons that can hurt Nob bikers or Oblits and other similar units. 3 Guided str 8 AP2 shots will do that, 1 TL BL shot wont...

Heavy:420
2xFire prisms = 230
Falcon (Holo+BL+Stones) = 190

Falcons are too expensive for what they can achieve in the 5th ed.

The only safe place for Eldrad and Yriel is in a fortuned Seer Council.

a fortuned seer council on foot has the same survivabilty vs str 4 fire than that of a standard tac squad. I wouldnt exactly call that safe...especially when they cant fleet.

Being picky but a 4+ with rerolls is slightly better than a 3+ save.

A foot council is probably still the best infantry assault unit Eldar have, sure they die to massed bolter fire but every Eldar assault unit has the same problem (every Eldar infantry unit bar Wraithguard actually). Hopefully it goes without saying that this unit should be in a Wave Serpent. The best bit about running Yriel in a fortuned foot council is that you can still make use of his Eye of Wrath while he is still attached to the squad with the risk of only hitting 2-3 4++ Warlocks (assuming you position everything properly) rather than squashing a few Guardians or having to run off by himself to use it (not ideal when you can easily wipe out a squad in a turn with it).

akaean there are a couple of major assumptions there. Most obvious issue being that Yriel + squad of Storm Guardians costs a hell of a lot more than a Tactical squad and are far easier to cut down before they get to combat in the first place (and if you add a Wave Serpent to help fix this problem they end up twice the cost of the Tacticals). Although "getting your points back" isn't really as relevant anymore, I would still expect to all but wipe out something in a single turn if I could commit twice the number of points in firepower against it. Also if I was the Marine player I would be allocating the power fist attacks against Yriel to try and instant kill him. Even then, you have won the combat by 2 or 3 which isn't guaranteed to even make them fail morale and more than likely you will still be in combat next turn (either they pass and stay in combat or you catch them and they take a couple more saves). At this point you no longer have the number of attacks from the standard Guardians to be able to make up from the fact that you need 5s to wound and things will start to go downhill.

As a general rule I totally avoid charging unless the target unit has been Doomed and even then I only ever charge depleted units to finish them off. The Farseer you need for this means you might as well add the Warlocks and create a proper hammer unit.

Can't say I like the Falcon in that list tedurur, would rather just take a 3rd Prism. If you can't deal with Nob Bikers with 3 squads of Fire Dragons and a decent amount of lower strength shooting you are in trouble (seriously you might lose 1 squad/transport before they can torch a squad of Nob Bikers). I can understand Eldrad in that list (at 2000pts you can justify him over the Farseer pretty easily) but the main issue is that Yriel has nowhere to go. The Avengers are not a unit which should be anywhere near combat unless they have to and adding Defend, a S3 power weapon and a Shimmershield isn't going to suddenly make them a good unit in combat. As the OP really wants to build a list around Yriel then you really need to include a unit for him to run with and be effective with. Putting him with Storm Guardians or Avengers detracts from the effectiveness of both units and you basically waste a scoring unit just to get Yriel to combat as they will more than likely not survive (your list is very light on troops to start with, 3 scoring units even in transports is very very thin at 2000pts unless you are running something really nasty like full Jetcouncils and can get away with it).

Several people have suggested a foot council as they are by far the best option, other options being a big Wraithguard squad on foot + Fortuneseer and Conceal Warlock or Harlies. Yriel is a combat character so you might as well put him with a combat unit and use him properly.

tedurur wrote:a fortuned seer council on foot has the same survivabilty vs str 4 fire than that of a standard tac squad. I wouldnt exactly call that safe...especially when they cant fleet.

I'd mount it in a Serpent, nothing else.

Powerguy wrote:Being picky but a 4+ with rerolls is slightly better than a 3+ save.

Yes, but T4 is also better than T3 . Trust me, they have the exact same survivability as a taq squad.

OFC you mount them in a serpent but anyone with 2 brain cells will either move 12" away from the serpent or more likely, block the back so that you have to move the serpent before you can disembark thus disabling the foot council for a turn and opening them up to focuse fire...

Sure foot council might be the "best" unit to stick Yriel in, it still doesnt make it a good idea...

OFC you mount them in a serpent but anyone with 2 brain cells will either move 12" away from the serpent or more likely, block the back so that you have to move the serpent before you can disembark thus disabling the foot council for a turn and opening them up to focuse fire...

Indeed, the enemy eventually can block the rear exit door and so the Serpent has to move.
Well, you could place a Serpent behind so that the enemy has to stay away from the door.
Its a matter of synergy and clever placement.