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Kharne the Betrayer

3 Terminators: 3 Combi-meltas

3x 8 Khorne Berzerkers: Plasma Pistol, Icon, Skull Champion, Power fist, Rhino, EA

2x 5 Chaos Marines: Meltagun, Rhino

2x Predator: Triple Lascannon, Possessed

Vindicator: Possessed

Land raiders are better for berzerkers because they can assault out of it, rhinos they have to sit and wait a turn.

I would take 3 land raiders, make one dedicated for the chaos terminators but give it to one unit of berzerkers. Then add another vindicator if you can. Problem is you will be light on troops.

@Mercer:
LR are a decent option for Bezerkers, but I wouldn't say 'better'.
Sitting and waiting has been working very well for alot of people... I don't know why you loath it so much...

@Marshal_Gus:
Preds: Tri-las is over priced for what you get, AC/LC is much better at Transport Popping, while possession really screws the side sponsons.
Vindis is ok.

Min sized CSM squads I do not suggest, I suggest rolling them into one and use the points saved for icons or champion and what-not.

Zerkers look ok, though those Extra armor or Plasma pistol or both for some more points for other things.
Termies and HQ look ok.

For Chaos it's really all about keeping things cheap as everything is expensive.

I have to agree with Sanctjud regarding daemonic possession on the preds, the extra shots you get from possession can easily be lost due to misses from BS 3.

I disagree however regarding the triple las being to expensive. Perhaps in a normal CSM list they would be, but with you relying so much on your bezerkers you really need to get people out of their rides. And if worse comes to worse, Bezerkers can take out most transports, its landraiders, monoliths, and AV 13 walkers they need help with, hence the lascannons being a good fit. I also disagree with the min sized CSM being a bad thing, as I assume that they are mainly for objective grabbing? I have had alot of success with similar sized squads doing the exact same thing, leaving my more "killy" units free to run straight at the enemy without having to look back. They also give you additional rhino's incase some of your bezerkers get theirs blown up.

Well land raiders are better than rhinos for delivering assault units, thats a fact.

The reason why I don't like is because with a land raider you can move 12" then bail out 2" and assault 6" which gives a massive 20" range. With a rhino you cannot assault out of it, so you need to sit and wait inside it. Any competent player will pop the rhino and gun down the berzerkers before they even make it into assault, or give them a real good kicking.

What good is a assault unit what actually cannot assault because of its own transport choice. There fore a land raider is better, but expensive.

@Gardeth:
Tri-las is expensive comparitively to other Tri-lasses.
In addition, the AC/LC is prob. better at taking out transports...which is what you want.

CSM/Zerkers charging transports is a unhealthy thing in most cases.
While you have melta weaponry for LRs and Av13 Walkers and to a lesser extent fists on those walkers.

Monoliths do not need that much attension from hvy support.

As for min sized:
-It's bad for comp (in my area at least).
-Soft Kill Points.
-Not too hard to kill off if camping.
-If the zerkers take the ride it means they are without it and even more exposed to death.
-And yes, it's a personal taste thing...what isn't in a forum

___________

@mercer:
I wanted to reply about that in a previous thread... but I really didn't want a wall of text.

To correct you a bit:
Can Move 12", then disembark 2", with 1" of base out of the Dismemberment zone, and 6" assault, so it's effectively 21" , a tiny bit better
Which is cool and all, but you pay alot for it and takes up a hvy slot. In addition, there are a lot of melta like weaponry, even ones with longer range.
There are opportunity costs involved with it...that's why I don't rate it as being 'better' in general.

With a rhino.
You do sit and wait with a rhino and it works for many.
Move 12", then next turn, Effectively 3" disembark like the LR, then move/charge 6/6.
The delayed charge range is now effectively 27", the payment for that extra 6" is to allow the opponent to react to it. (which I admit is for better or for worse).

So with a rhino you get to keep your Hvy slot, it's cheaper, with planning a longer overall charge range.

What good is a assault unit what actually cannot assault because of its own transport choice.

It can assault out of it if it didn't move, the function of a rhino is to get them there, the point of view is that it doesn't have to be there 'now'.

If you want something with an earlier charge and without any finesse the LR is there, but there are costs outside of just points.
The rhino is good because you still get the 12" move when mobile and you set up a longer ranged charge/trap instead.

At the end of the day it’s just a personal taste issue.
You suggest a LR
I suggest Rhinos

Both are viable choices.

Change Predators to AC/LC verisions, drop Possession.
Drop PP from Berzerkers or atleast don't give it to the Champ.
Combine CSM squads and use the saved points from Possession and -1 Rhino to buy them a Fist Champion and maybe IoCG.


Its fine otherwise. the choice between a LR and Rhinos is totally a playstyle thing. I prefer more bodies so I lean towards Rhinos.

The main thing about this list is that I can convert my Black Templar vehicles/a few marines, use some Berzerkers I won, and only need to buy a Rhino and the Terminators. So minimal cost is a priority for the college guy about to get married.

Yes the min-sized squads are for objectives. They are an inspiration from two good players I know of in my area (one being gardeth and the other being the guy who won best overall at the Waaagh).

I added possession to everything just because as a Necron player getting shaken/stunned results on Predators and Vindicators has won me a handful of games.

I will keep a Land Raider in mind, but buying one is definitely not in my immediate future. I can see about ordering pieces to convert my LRC so that might be an option...

If I can get in 2 games at my flgs, then after I play this list I can try:

Kharne the Betrayer

3x 8 Khorne Berzerkers: Skull Champion, Power fist, Rhino

2x 5 Chaos Marines: Meltagun, Rhino

2x Predator: Triple Lascannon

Vindicator: Possessed

With 250 points left to do something with. Any suggestions what to do with that?

Easy answer is a slaaneshi lash or tzeentch warp time daemon prince (if you don't mind breaking the khorne theme). And then use the rest of the points on putting extra-armor back on the rhinos (looks like you took it off) and maybe some combi-meltas on your zerker rhino's.

If you don't like or want to do the prince, maybe some chosen (3 melta 1 flamer) in a rhino?