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At 6 points each (180pts for a 30 model squad) you get 12" move, 6" assault, and auto wounding non-vehicle models on a roll of a 6 to hit!

You can add Furious Charge and Poison if you want, but for base cost I would move these above Ork boys.

I realize these are scoring units, but 3 maxed out units is only costing you 540pts! Still leaving the good ol bug players plenty of points to get their reproducing scoring units out on the field.

I'm staying away for now, but they will be very interesting to play on the battlefield!

Gargoyles are scoring units, I thought they were fast choise not troop???
Is this true!!!

I think he made a typo. They're fast attack.

Personally, I'm looking forward to all that heavy bolter fodder. It's nice that they finally have plastic models.

My preorders came in today and Ive built 3 - the models are incredible. I hope they perform on the battlefield so I can use always use them

He means the comparison to Ork Boyz, who are scoring units.

I'm loving the new figs for em too. Far more variety in the wings, really smooth and sleek bodies, they even seem to have improved the hole for the flight stand peg, so that more than just the very narrow top fits into it. I might actually use the GW flight pegs for these!

The miniatures are fantastic. I might grab some sometime.

I'm actually disappointed that they are now cheap fodder. Why does every edition and codex rerelease have to lower point costs and require more and more models? It's lame. I'd rather have potent, useful and dynamically powerful gargoyles at 12 or even 18 points a piece (that perform accordingly).

I get that the answer above is to sell more miniatures. I just wish the priorities of the rules design was good gameplay instead.

I guess I've been around too long. I remember when a group of 6 gargoyles deepstriking in, each with the equivilant of a flamer would decimate their target. But that was over 12 years ago.

Fantastic models though.

If they had allowed Gargoyles access to the same weapon upgrades at Termagaunts that would have been too awesome for words. Packs of Gargoyles with the new Devourers? I'd pay 12 pts for that.

...or melee weapons.

Greets
Schepp himself

frozenwastes wrote:The miniatures are fantastic. I might grab some sometime.

I'm actually disappointed that they are now cheap fodder. Why does every edition and codex rerelease have to lower point costs and require more and more models? It's lame. I'd rather have potent, useful and dynamically powerful gargoyles at 12 or even 18 points a piece (that perform accordingly).

I get that the answer above is to sell more miniatures. I just wish the priorities of the rules design was good gameplay instead.

I guess I've been around too long. I remember when a group of 6 gargoyles deepstriking in, each with the equivilant of a flamer would decimate their target. But that was over 12 years ago.

Fantastic models though.

Thats ridiculous, gargoyles have always been cheap. If they had the option to take devourers i may or may not take them, 18 points is wayyy to much. As far as i'm concerned gargoyles are gaunts with wings, and not anything more than that.

Sneezypanda wrote:Thats ridiculous, gargoyles have always been cheap.

How long is "always?" Some of us have longer memories than others.

When gargoyles were first introduced into the tyranid army, they weren't cheap. They certainly weren't gaunts with wings. Unless ofcourse, you consider gaunts to have flamers.

I remember deep striking them in and my opponent's Space Marine Tarantulas opening up on overwatch. With each one activating, he was hoping to kill enough that I'd have to remove the ones in important spots. But then he ran out of dice. Not enough stuff on overwatch. So down the templates came and the command squad burned alive. It was just too many flamer shots for their 3+ saves. At 16 points a pop, they were awesome with their flamespurt attacks.

I believe those have been replaced with 3 Pyrovores in a spore for 175pts

frozenwastes wrote:

Sneezypanda wrote:Thats ridiculous, gargoyles have always been cheap.

How long is "always?" Some of us have longer memories than others.

When gargoyles were first introduced into the tyranid army, they weren't cheap. They certainly weren't gaunts with wings. Unless ofcourse, you consider gaunts to have flamers.

I remember deep striking them in and my opponent's Space Marine Tarantulas opening up on overwatch. With each one activating, he was hoping to kill enough that I'd have to remove the ones in important spots. But then he ran out of dice. Not enough stuff on overwatch. So down the templates came and the command squad burned alive. It was just too many flamer shots for their 3+ saves. At 16 points a pop, they were awesome with their flamespurt attacks.

You cant really compare 2nd edition to post 2nd edition prices for non-vehicle models.. Most things were 2x their current cost

I think the one thing about the kit I don't like is that the heads are not directly compatible with the Gaunt and Hormagaunt bodies, and vise versa. Not that I would necessarily go back and start swapping heads around, but it would be nice to have the option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh god, what have I done?! Suggestion to anyone who hasn't assembled their new Gargoyles yet.... Put the guns on before you put the wings on. Those wings can make it really hard to hold onto the arms and get them in the right place and angle.

Brother SRM wrote:I think he made a typo. They're fast attack.

Personally, I'm looking forward to all that heavy bolter fodder. It's nice that they finally have plastic models.

Heavy bolter fodder?
They eventually get a cover save when they approach the enemy front ranks.

Brother SRM wrote:I think he made a typo. They're fast attack.

Personally, I'm looking forward to all that heavy bolter fodder. It's nice that they finally have plastic models.

Lol you shoot at those gargoyle and waste time killing a drop in the bucket because then the real stuff gets to arrive without your shooting.. Huddle up the bolters so the mawloc can rise and crush em. Gargoyles are amazing. They can cause damage but mostly they're an amazing diversion to bring in the tyrants, warriors, heavies, etc.

Kirasu wrote:You cant really compare 2nd edition to post 2nd edition prices for non-vehicle models.. Most things were 2x their current cost

That actually makes my point for me quite nicely. Thanks!

The move to 3rd edition included the reduction in points costs across the board to increase the numbers of models you need for a standard 2 hour-ish game.

Back in 2nd edition, Space Marines were 30 points a pop and the standard game was 1500 points. With the arrival of 3rd, Space Marines went to 15 points, but what do you know? The standard game stayed at 1500 points. Since then, the standard game size has grown and the points cost of each model has gone down, requiring more and more miniatures in a full sized army. Case in point are 6 point gargoyles and 6 point ork boys.

I'd rather have gargoyles that are not just cheap fodder with rules designed to require more models. But I guess that's why I'm part of the majority of GW's customers that don't regularly play their game.

I agree that the models are incredible.

I do think 6 is too little tho, for +6" move, DS and poison (loss of scoring). I would happily pay 8ppm for such models.

frozenwastes wrote:

Kirasu wrote:You cant really compare 2nd edition to post 2nd edition prices for non-vehicle models.. Most things were 2x their current cost

That actually makes my point for me quite nicely. Thanks!

The move to 3rd edition included the reduction in points costs across the board to increase the numbers of models you need for a standard 2 hour-ish game.

Back in 2nd edition, Space Marines were 30 points a pop and the standard game was 1500 points. With the arrival of 3rd, Space Marines went to 15 points, but what do you know? The standard game stayed at 1500 points. Since then, the standard game size has grown and the points cost of each model has gone down, requiring more and more miniatures in a full sized army. Case in point are 6 point gargoyles and 6 point ork boys.

I'd rather have gargoyles that are not just cheap fodder with rules designed to require more models. But I guess that's why I'm part of the majority of GW's customers that don't regularly play their game.

The whole point to Tyranids is swarming stuff (wich 4th didnt do much) as for point reduction, as far as i can see, points almost always hang loosely together with retail prices(for plastic kits anyway). And either way, i like it better like this, I prefer more expensive but plenty more models in an army. And its not like you are forced to play 1500+ points.

The new models are absolutely fantastic.

Can't wait to use 'em to swoop down and contest some objectives.

So the 15 point marines at the start of 3rd ed are now cheaper? No, theyre still 15 points.

What theyve done is make Horder armies you know, actually have *horde like* elements. And the main reason game sizes have gotten bigger (for some - most pepole still seem to play 1500 points) is that the emphasis on troops means people want more points to still have the cool stuff.

GW's business model is to lower the points costs to "encourage" more purchases. For horde armies, this might be lowered basic troop choices and larger unit numbers, while for armies like Space Marines, it might be to lower the cost of transport vehicles, support tanks, etc. Rhinos used to cost what a landraider costs now in points and was arguably as hard to kill. Times change. New models and cheaper, better options means new revenues from older players and newer players alike. If everything remained constant, once you collected your army, you'd be done and GW would be out of business. Whatever you play, realize that in a codex generation or two, you will likely be using entirely different models and force organizations to adjust to what is most effective in your new list (and what gets added).

Oh, I understand the business model. I'm just saying that I wish it was more like when GW was first becoming the global entity that is is today. When they were experiencing their largest periods of growth, the games took less models and each model felt more useful on the table top. And when you finished your army, you weren't done, because the marketing was focused on getting you to start another army or perhaps giving Fantasy a try. Or maybe you'd be interested in one of these many other smaller games? There was always something to spend your money on.

The new gargoyle miniatures are awesome. I'm sure GW will sell tons of them and people will enjoy flying their swarms about in the game. It's just not how I would have liked to see it done. I would have liked to see gargoyles that count as much as individual models as whole units.

The 2009 plastic molds for the Tyranid models I've seen have been superb. Minimal mold lines, nicely detailed instructions, plenty of extras make this line the best I've seen (from GW).

I understand the petition that's been floating around about trying to boycott buying new models from GW this year, but they've done a good job with these.

If this is the type of quality we can expect for the new molds for the rest of the lines, the boycott is going to be very hard for some.

They look fantastic, but perform poorly. I played as Tau vs nids on friday, and found that the nids to be a little underwheling esp the Gargoyles, they deep striked in, fired at kroot killing 4-5, has they tried to avenge Deathleaper's death, due to massive kroot rapid firing.

My Shas'o Fired his guns into the squad of 24 gargoyles killing 5(2 gun drones included) Pinning test easily failed. And decided to assult hoping they would hold for a turn or two, so the hive guard couldn't shoot him again. killing 7 taking 1 wound back in return, and they got swept.

Wasn't too impressed with the Nids as a whole, other than hive guard and zoanthropes.

No offense, but little bugs being deepstruck alone and out of Synapse being bad is not a big suprise.

I'm glad everyone likes this set because I just opened mine up to find 9 flying bases with NO RODS...

If you lived near me I'd give you mine, since I replaced all the GW rods with plasticard anyways. Too many bad memories of the tips snapping off, even if the new figs look like they're made to avoid that.

I mount anything flying on thin "music wire" from the local hobby shop. It's ever so slightly flexible so when you accidentally put pressure on the miniature, it just flexes rather than snapping off. It always sproings right back into the straight position as well. Well, maybe "sproings" is the wrong word as it's really not that flexible.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hobby+music+wire

Gornall wrote:No offense, but little bugs being deepstruck alone and out of Synapse being bad is not a big suprise.

That's why you attach the Parasite of Mortrex to them!