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Hey guys, got a tournament coming up in a couple of months. Can't be bothered to finish eldar as I am totally into Fantasy at the moment so I think I am going to use trusty old chaos.

Any opinions on the list? Also, which do people think would work best - The setup below or one with 6 obliterators instead of the HS armour?

Nurgle Dp w/ WT - maybe considering something else for this though - lash sorc or something

10 CSM - 2x Meltas, Fist, IoCG, Rhino
8 NMs - all SBs/Rhino
7 PMs - 2x meltas, Rhino
7 Zerkers, Rhino (no fist champ!)

2 x DEFilers - Shooty ones to sit in the back corner of the board.
Vindicator - DP

So, any comments? Is the zerker unit worth it? It's kind of a throwaway/mop up unit.

HQ is what I am really not sure about - Have all marks DPs painted up so can use any

Thanks in advance

Well, I'd give the fist of the CSM squad to the Berzerkers.

Nice, I think your list has a very solid core...

I'm not keen on your bezerkers however, I'd give your Plague Marines the power fist if I were you and drop the bezerkers to buy either another CSM squad or a Daemon Prince.

Actually if I were you, I'd swap the zerkers for a CSM squad and the defilers for another daemon prince and vindicator. This will keep it all close quarters but will improve armour saturation and arguably give it a bigger punch.

In regards to your Daemon Princes, I'd say your current set up is fine, although you may fine that a lash helps in regards to blast templates (whcih you have several of). If you follow my advice in regards to the list a Lash would also help keep the enemy from keeping out of reach or whatnot. So yeah, I'd recommend Lash if you can, but your set-up atm is fine.

Finally, I prefer your armour over obliterators, not only is it less cheesy but it benefits armour saturation...

Hope I've been able to help. Dave.

Your list seems a bit all over the place. What are you trying to do with it? Its usually a good idea in a more balanced list to have multiples of the same unit that are dedicated to performing a single role. This redundancy makes lists stronger by ensuring that you will have back up units that are equally capable, incase the primary ones fail.

So at the moment all of your troops choices are all ok (with the exception of the CSM), but the all fullfill different roles. This means that if you lose one you will be weaker that that role (obviously!). Now a smart opponent will focus on killing the unit that will cause him most difficulty early on, meaning the rest of your army will then struggle. This is the reason that reduncancy is so important and also why you see the best lists running multiples of the same units, rather than a handful of different ones.

With that in mind:

Run two DPs. Lash DPs or nurgle/WT DPs are both good but always run two and try and run two of the same.

Drop the CSM. The way you have equipped them they just get out classed by PMs, of which you should have another unit (with champions with fists).

Pick either NMs or berzerkers to be your other troops choice. Both are very good but do different things. Use berzerkers if you want to be more combat orientated and NMs if you want more mid/long-range. NMs are also pretty good in combat, especially with sonic blasters shooting before hand. If you want to run them mid-range then get a champion with a powersword (I5 PW attacks are very good) and consider getting a doomsiren, particularly if you want to run lash princes. Berzerkers should always have a champion with a powerfist. 4 S9 attacks on the charge is too good to pass up. Dont bother giving them any plasma pistols, its just not worth it.

Which ever you decide to run, use two almost identical units.

If you are leaving defilers on the back field to shoot then you may as well take obilts instead. Two have more firepower than a single defiler and dont die so easily. Defilers cant fire any extra weapons if they use their battlecannon so dont pay any extra points for them. Your single vindicator also doesnt really do a lot. Its better than a defiler because its harder to kill, but wont do much by itself. Using the same rule, run things in multiples. So that means 3 defilers, 3 vindicators or 6 obilts. They will all perform better overall because each unit can pick up the slack if one is destroyed. Because you dont really have a lot of anti-tank in your list I would go for the obilts if you want longranged, but mostly static shooting.

Hope that helped.

Great comments guys - thanks so much for the detail.

Still thinking how I can get 2 DPs, 4 Units, 6 oblits into 1.5 but I am sure I'll get it!

3 Units of troops are 'enough' at 1500 IMO.

My 1500 is like:
Prince, Wings.
Prince, Wings.
3 Oblits
3 Oblits
7 Plague marines, 2 meltas, fist, rhino.
7 Plague marines, 2 meltas, fist, rhino.
7 Plague marines, 2 meltas, fist, rhino.
1478....with enough points to play around with special weapons, throw in some combi-weapons, or some kind of mark on princes...whatever I feel like.

So it's entirely doable to get 2 DP, 3 Units, and 6 oblits into 1500. 4 is just too much, esp. if our troop units are points hogs.

My 1500 is like:
Prince, Wings.
Prince, Wings.
3 Oblits
3 Oblits
7 Plague marines, 2 meltas, fist, rhino.
7 Plague marines, 2 meltas, fist, rhino.
7 Plague marines, 2 meltas, fist, rhino.

That's a decent list.
I'd beef up the DP giving them marks.

I've been running a lash sorc the last 9 or 10 games and he's been phenomenal. Buried him in a unit of plague marines - protected like an SOB and his ridiculous close combat skills make CC a bit more tolerable with the unit.

I finally got a Demon Princes painted up. I'm a bit concerned about them being such a target, but we'll see how it goes. Will run him and the sorc for a while until I get DP2 finished (probably be a month or two).

I've also been running my zerker squad with a regular power weapon instead of a fist. The ability to strike on initive has been pretty huge for that squad. Their main job is to hunt enemy SM infantry and they do it well. Have other stuff to hunt down the light vehicles, though I suppose if I faced lists with more mech I might need to switch.

For your Noise Marines, as I assume that's what "NM" means, take a champ with fist/power weapon and Doom Siren. Doom Sirens are S:5 AP:3 flamers. Great against everything really.

Once again, thanks for the input guys.

I managed to find 16 painted Deathguard in my pile of painted chaos stuff (woo) so that's those two units sorted (with rhinos)

I am liking the idea of the dual lash sorcs. I have used the DPs and they do seem to be big targets for bolter fire (their bane)

FOr the NMs, the Doom sirens are undoubtedly awesome but taking one totally changed the make up of the unit - atm they are mid range fire support and that would turn them into a close range unit

Well... bolter fire shouldn't be too bad (esp. with lash sorc.). It's only bad if you leave him 17" of a bolter squad.

Otherwise, meh, Princes are there be targets...so any fire going there way can be seen as a good thing, esp. if you have unmeched elements.

Thanks for all the comments as always guys.

After playing chaos purely for a year at tournies, I havn't played them for 6 months or so. Had a game last night.

I was playing a very aggressive Termy heavy, Shrike list.

I used,

DP - MoT, Wings, WT, WoC
DP - MoT, Wings, WT, WoC

6 Berserkers, rhino (these guys just hold home base and defend the oblits)
7 Plague Marines, 2 Meltas, Rhino
8 Noise Marines, 8 Sonics, Champ with Doom siren & PW, Rhino

Oblit x2
Oblit x2
Oblit x2

It wiped out my opponent (who is pretty good) by turn 3 though that could be down to a couple of key mistakes.

I need to run it against some more shooty armies and see how it fares.