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So I'm always into Eldar, Im not sure if I have the time of money for them, but I know I'd like to. Anyways, this is the general theme I'm aiming for, I love Aspect Warriors and their fluff so I'm aiming Beil-Tan... Feel free to suggest what you like but I dont want to go cheese. Oh and the only unit that is a definate 'No' is Harlequins, as undeniably good as they are, I couldnt paint them well enough...


HQ - Autarch - Laser Lance, Jetbike, Fusion Gun - 130pts

Elites - 6x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent - TL Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon - 206pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Diresword + Bladestorm - Waveserpent - TL Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon - 267pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Power Weapon, Shimmer Sheild + Bladestorm - Waveserpent - TL Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon - 272pts

Troops - 5x Rangers - 95pts

Troops - 5x Rangers - 95pts

Fast Attack - 5x Shining Spears - 175pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Bright Lance - 130pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Bright Lance - 130pts

Total - 1500pts

Its a bit rough around the edges, I'm considering Stones instead of extra Shuriken Cannons on the Wave Serpents and swapping one of the Shining Spears for a exarch with Star Lance. I'm not sure I understand why no-one goes for the Diresword option for the dire avengers, I mean you get a power weapon (with potentially instant death) cheaply and the pistol can potentially benefit from the bladestorm...

Anyways, I know someone (probably Wuestenfux will suggest Fire Prisms instead of the Wraithlords, but I love the look of the WL's and they're £10 cheaper so...)

All C+C is very much welcome. Cheers!

Drop the spears and one of the WS from the DA and get some howling banshees in a WS or some infiltrating scorpions. I would then put the autarch on foot with the banshees or get a farseer with some warlocks.

Well, wraithlords DO look pretty freakin sweet so..go for em. One condition though... you have to have them painted/modeled like aspect warriors. I'd actually suggest getting them each the sword thing. Keep them moving and force your enemy to close. Make the wraithlords the axis upon which your fast elements swing around.

Use the spears as way to pick off units that have been de-transported by the dragons. If you are just using the spears as a way to pick off weak units then drop the bike for the autarch. Put him on foot with the dragons and give him a power weapon so he can help in the inevitable charge by the now vehicle-less whatevers.

I'd drop the extra shuri cannons. If you can find the points i'd go for scatter lasers. the extra range is too good to lose.

People are going to say you need more AT. You do. You could drop a few DA to find points for TLEML's on your serpents.

ender502

What Wuestenfux would tell you is this:

1. If you are going to use wraithlords, either tool them up for shooting or combat, but not 1 brightlance. I run them with brightlance and missle launcher.
2. If you are running shuriken cannon wave serpents they should be carrying something nasty like banshees or fire dragons or harlequins. If they are for shooty, then give them brightlances.
3. If you aren't running pysckers... um... WTF! At 1500, i guess you have to make a choice on your hq. Personally I'd run Yriel over an Autarch, Eldrad over a Farseer. I think shining spears are overpriced, and banshees in a wave serpent with a doom/fortune farseer is your best bet, but thats my style, not everyones.
4. I would either run your dire avengers as 10 naked dire avengers or the super shooty variant with Exarch, blade storm and extra shuriken catapult. I've never been a fan of dire swords, defend, power weapons, etc... you have other units that do that stuff amd for cheaper.

At least if I were Wuestenfux, thats what I would say, but he's got his own style too that seems to work from what I hear. Btw I love fire prisms too... with or without holofields... 115pts is cheap, 150 with holofields its so hard to hurt, i'd run 3 :-)

Thanks for the comments guys, it's appreciated, my only criticism is the need to add so much but not run out of points, anyways listening to your input (a lot!) I have this to say and am now thinking along these lines:

Well I was unsure about the Spears and Autarch, they were both things I went for with the left over points, so Im fine with dropping them. I wont be replacing them with a Seer Council however as that's not the kind of army I'm aiming for, I am fine however with the idea of a Farseer, Banshees or Scorpions...

I am thinking of having either the body or head of the Wraithlords to represent their previous aspect, whilst I'd try converting their swords to represent spears instead, yummy!

Well in terms of the equipment on the Wraithlords and Wave Serpents, what about, TL Shuriken + stones for the fire dragons, TL EML's for the dire avengers and then swords for the Wraithlords? My thinking is, the Fire Dragons need to hit the enemy lines so stones and shuriken cannons will help with their short range, them actually reaching the enemy and cheapness will make them a less attractive target... The EML's with the Dire Avengers boosts the shootyness and helps with anti-tank, whilst the swords with the Wraithlords means they look UBER cool and can run allowing to close quicker (and act as an anchor around the fast units) whilst compensating for the increase in points costs elsewhere? These are all changes Im very happy with personally...

Im thinking a Farseer with Guide, doom and the stones of warding, witnessing and spiritificating (yes I know thats not a word!), this way he's v. likely to cast his own powers which would significantly boost the output of the avengers and doom if I do get Banshees, the only problem is him costing 145pts (can I afford to lose either of the runes?), which is 15pts more than the Autarch. but yriel and eldrad are a no-no. Im a bit obsessed with fluff but I still feel it can be competitive without, although I recognise the superiority of both these SC's...

And yep, I'll include twin shuriken catapults on the Dire Avengers exarch, although maybe PW/SS for the unit that goes with the farseer?

And yes, It's not that I dont like Fire Prisms or dont recognise their superiority, but I prefer Wraithlords and money!



I'm now thinking something like this:

-Farseer - Runes of Warding + Witnessing, Guide, Doom, Spirit Stones - 145pts

-6x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons + Spirit Stones - 196pts

-10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL EML - 272pts

-10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL EML - 272pts

-5x Rangers - 95pts

-5x Rangers - 95pts

- Wraithlord - Implement of stabbing - 100pts

- Wraithlord - Implement of hacking - 100pts

Total - 1275pts - 225pts left to spend!

With these points Im thinking either, another squad of dragons but include flamer/Crack shot exarchs, banshees in waveserpent, infiltrating scorpions, 2 small squads of shining spears or warwalkers. (ive basically just listed the entire codex! ). I am willing to drop the rangers but I want more than 2 troop choices and I like the role they'd play...

Thanks for the help guys. keep it coming!

Ok... so you still need to build to defeat the most common threat. So I would be afraid of landraiders, your dragons are ok, but I don't see any other anti-tank, therefore if you dragons get downed... you look screwed.

the next biggest threat is IG Mech Vehicle Spam... can you handle nearly a dozen armor 12 vehicles... I don't see that you can, maybe, but not yet. At 1500, don't bother with more then 3 troops, I'm nutty enough to run just 2, but you really should have 3.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Try a list like this.
Eldrad

Shuriken Serpent w/ Stones
10 Banshees, Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatics

6 Firedragons
Brightlance Serpent

Storm Guardians w/ 2 x flamer w/ Warlock & Destructor
Brightlance Serpent

Rangers
Rangers

Wraithlord, Brightlance & ELM
Wraithlord, Brightlance & ELM

Rangers without the pathfinder upgrade? That sounds absurd to me =P
The current wraithlord set-up seems a bit counter-productive to your list. I would suggest the BL/EML combo... It's over used for good reason.
So, if you give that pathfinders the upgrade, and give the wraithlords the sword, you should have 85 points leftover.
Now, as Sazzlefrats has mentioned, you really only need 3 troops, so if you drop a squad of 'em, thats 120 points.
So with 215 points, you can afford a 6 man squad of fire dragons in a wave serpent with spirit stones and a TL-ShruiCannon.
Other than that, I only really doubt the abilites of the farseer..... I hope that was helpful.

I'll just stick to what units/options I like and why.

Warp spiders, howling banshees, striking scorpions, vectored engines, star engines.

Warp Spiders: I love the speed. I love the heavy armor, the heavy firepower. I don't use deep strike. I have taken the option many times and never used it. I love the being able to withdraw from an assault, shoot and charge back in. The extra movement in the assault phase is also fun.

Howling Banshees: Fun, power weapons, good for marines. Wound less than striking scorpions, but deny armor saves. They retain fleet of foot and have the fun mask. I play orcs a lot and use the scorpions more often, but the Banshees are good.

Striking Scorpions: I love the heavy armor, the move through cover. You lose the fleet of foot, which is bad. You get bonuses to strength. The eldar can hit pretty easily, but can't do much with wounding. Scorpions get around that problem.

I've had discussions about whether it is better to wound more often and give them armor saves (scorpions) or to wound less often but deny them armor saves (banshees) and have yet to come to a conclusion.

Vectored Engines, Star Engines: They have won me a few games. Moving to the other side of the board in one turn is so enjoyable. There was a game I moved a squad of dire avengers across the board one turn, disembarked and assaulted a squad of marines on the objective. Destroyed them and moved fully into the cover. We always place objectives in cover. They then survived shooting from 1500 points for two turns with one model left to win the game.

Sazzlefrats wrote:What Wuestenfux would tell you is this:

1. If you are going to use wraithlords, either tool them up for shooting or combat, but not 1 brightlance. I run them with brightlance and missle launcher.
2. If you are running shuriken cannon wave serpents they should be carrying something nasty like banshees or fire dragons or harlequins. If they are for shooty, then give them brightlances.
3. If you aren't running pysckers... um... WTF! At 1500, i guess you have to make a choice on your hq. Personally I'd run Yriel over an Autarch, Eldrad over a Farseer. I think shining spears are overpriced, and banshees in a wave serpent with a doom/fortune farseer is your best bet, but thats my style, not everyones.
4. I would either run your dire avengers as 10 naked dire avengers or the super shooty variant with Exarch, blade storm and extra shuriken catapult. I've never been a fan of dire swords, defend, power weapons, etc... you have other units that do that stuff amd for cheaper.

At least if I were Wuestenfux, thats what I would say, but he's got his own style too that seems to work from what I hear. Btw I love fire prisms too... with or without holofields... 115pts is cheap, 150 with holofields its so hard to hurt, i'd run 3 :-)

Sazzlefrats is right. This is what I could have written, too.

I'm now thinking something like this:

-Farseer - Runes of Warding + Witnessing, Guide, Doom, Spirit Stones - 145pts

-6x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons + Spirit Stones - 196pts

-10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL EML - 272pts

-10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL EML - 272pts

-5x Rangers - 95pts

-5x Rangers - 95pts

- Wraithlord - Implement of stabbing - 100pts

- Wraithlord - Implement of hacking - 100pts

Total - 1275pts - 225pts left to spend!

Well, the modified army contains no SS but still a static fire base (Rangers and WL's) while the rest of the army is fully mobile.
I figured that the enemy will move towards your static fire base. This leaves you with two options. First, go for the enemy's throat while he's moving towards your fire base. Second, help out those Rangers that might get overwhelmed by outflankers or fast moving units. In both cases, this is not an ideal situation.
Anyway, you could add another unit of FD's in a Serpent.

wuestenfux wrote:
Sazzlefrats is right. This is what I could have written, too.

It did seem very similar to what you would say, although I'd imagine you would've kept it shorter and have added an '' onto the end!


Once again, thank you for the advice guys, as I said, It's much appreciated and the 'debate' is always interesting...

On a similar note to what Sanctjud and Sazzlefrats said, after posting it I did think that another fire dragon squad would be a good choice for my next unit to counter the lack of anti-tank, but yeah, it appears as there are other directions I may need to head in too.

Well, Im perfectly willing to make them Path finders and change the load-out on the wraithlords. Sorry Sazzlefrats, as superior as your list may be its really not the direction I want to head in, I would rather stay away from Eldrad as he's not fluffy ands probably a bit expensive for me, and I'd rather have atleast 1 squad of dire avengers and preferably no guardians...

Well taking in your advice, how about this:

HQ - Farseer - Guide, Runes of Warding - 90pts

Elites - 6x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons + Spirit Stones - 196pts

Elites - 7x Striking Scorpions - Exarch w/ Scorpions Claw + Shadow Strike - 159pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL Bright Lance - 287pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL Bright Lance - 287pts

Troops - 5x Pathfinders - 120pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher - 155pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher - 155pts

Total - 1449pts 51pts left over


So, it's improved the Wraithlords (surely people wont attempt to charge a firebase consisting of 2 WL's?!), anti-tank capability and decreased the troop count. Now this list I'm also happy with, I'd quite like the Farseer to be more prominent (as he is I imagine putting him with the WL's and Pathfinders to guide and prevent the WL's going to sleep) and although I like them, Im unsure about the scorpions roles within the list...

I wonder about swapping the scorpions for another unit of fire dragons and then get flamer/exarchs with them? or a squad of banshees or better HQ instead?

thanks again.

You MUST....absolutely MUST..... model the wraithlords to look like they are reapers... with a single, big, doubl ebarreled EML/Brightlance.... That's be freakin sweet! A deathshead sort of thing with various extra armor bits here and there.

I will NOT buy more models. I will not.

ender502

You can infiltrate the rangers and scout move them onto an objective. Just don't leave them unsupported.

Striking Scorpions in the list would be used to support the pathfinders. Assault anyone who comes near them. Assaults are the problem of path finders.

It did seem very similar to what you would say, although I'd imagine you would've kept it shorter and have added an '' onto the end!

Absolutely right.


Well, as said, I'd prefer Fire Prisms as HS units.
If you would replace the WL's by Prisms you could give the Scorpions a Serpent.
This would particularly be useful if they outflank and arrive at the 'wrong' board edge.

I wouldn't use scorpions, if you want a throw away unit get fire dragons, at least they kill something before they die.

Units to avoid
Swooping Hawks
Vipers
Scorpions
Most Phoenix Lords
Defender Guardians
Jetbike squads w/o warlocks
Warp Spiders
Heavy Weapon Platforms
Thinking that 3 units of war walkers will live past a few turns.
Dark Reapers

Things that sometimes work
Rangers... usually.... 1 throw away squad if they attack 95pts, good... they are hard to kill, the rest of your army is alpha strike, or should be.

rarrrr

Jetbikes are just fine but I agree about the other units being meh

Well i agree with most of what Sazzlefrats and Wuestenfux said:

@ Sazzlefrats, I know which Eldar units are good and what works etc. its just that for some reason I've always struggled with Eldar lists... I think you underestimate Defender Gaurdians however (effect w/ avatar and as cheap objective captures) and Dark Reapers (can scare the bigjesus out of MEQ's)

@Wuestenfux, as I have said, I recognise Prisms are generally better units but I prefer the look, feel and £'s of the Wraithlords, what about Falcons however? I've never been too big a fan but I recognise they'd have their uses!

OK, well I'm pretty set on this list:


HQ - Farseer - Guide - 75pts

Elites - 6x Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ flamer + Crack Shot - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons + Spirit Stones - 213pts

Elites - 6x Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ Flamer - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons + Spirit Stones - 208pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL Bright Lance - 287pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL Bright Lance - 287pts

Troops - 5x Pathfinders - 120pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher - 155pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher - 155pts

1500pts

what about that?

thanks again, C+C still v. welcome, particually about Falcons over WL's?

Doom is better than Guide. Also, Runes of Warding, 15pts to kill your opponents psychic stuff. In my mind its a no brainer to drop a fire dragon, or downgrade the pathfinders to rangers to get the points for this. You might also consider a singing spear. Its just another way to kill vehicles. Make that change, and its a list I would play.



Falcons are way more expensive than wraithlords, so at higher points levels... absolutely. Or if you can find the room in this list, but i don't see it really... holofields are a must. Now fire prisms at this point level are good too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I played twice tonight, using the following list, which should fit your fluff just fine.

HQ - Farseer - Doom, Runes of Warding, Singing Spear - 98pts

Elites - 6x Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ flamer + Crack Shot - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons - 213pts

Elites - 6x Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ flamer + Crack Shot - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons - 213pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL Bright Lance - 287pts

Troops - 10x Storm Guardians 2x flamers, warlock destructor & singing spear - Waveserpent w/ TL Bright Lance - 265pts

Troops - 6x rangers - 114pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher - 155pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher - 155pts

1500pts

Your other list ended up being 25pts over. Anyhow, my first match was 5 objective mission, I played against Janthkin, who was using the new Nids codex. We're going to have to continue playtesting Nids, but in short order I had his bugs under my foot. Doom was a huge asset, so was playing shuffleboard with 4 waveserpents. I didn't even miss my combat element, the game ended 3pts to 1pt. Runes of Warding was amazing, its an auto include for sure.

My other match was against another veteran player, he was playing a nurgle chaos marine army. I had a very tough time taking out his nurgle marines, my storm guardians and dire avengers were both worthless, but I protected them, and suicided my fire dragon squads to bring his numbers down. Taking out his Nurgle Prince and Lash Sorcerer. I quickly brightlanced and ranger sniped his oblits. When it came to combat, I could only use my wraithlords, but faired well in the end. It was a 5pt game as well, won that one 3 to 2. This game too, Runes of Warding effectivly shut down warptime and the lash. Its just awesome for a mere 15pts.

Both games, victory point wise were landslides in my favor. I would say the list isnt bad, I kinda wish I had ELM's on the shurken cannon serpents, and maybe eldrad in favor of the farseer & rangers. But I'd lose a scoring unit, and I don't really want to cut anything out to get the elms anyhow.

OK, yeah, good advice Sazzlefrats, its appreciated! And yeah, I knew about the potency (to an extent) of Runes ala Warding but I was struggling with points, but comparing lists they're easy to fit in. I will be going for this list now, providing I get round to starting my Eldar that is!

My only query is about how much more effective doom is over guide, as I imagine guide being more beneficial to the weapons that shouldnt really struggle to wound (EML's, fusion guns, lances etc) and could still benefit the rest of the army, whilst I feel doom will be more limited to the 'victims' of the Dire Avengers? (also, the 5pts saved on guide allows Crack Shot) Just interested, would like to hear your opinion...

HQ - Farseer - Guide, Runes of Warding - 90pts

Elites - 6x Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ flamer + Crack Shot - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons - 203pts

Elites - 6x Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ Flamer + Crack Shot - Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken Cannons - 203pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL Bright Lance - 287pts

Troops - 10x Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ 2x Catapults + Bladestorm - Waveserpent w/ TL Bright Lance - 287pts

Troops - 5x Pathfinders - 120pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher - 155pts

Heavy Support - Wraithlord - Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher - 155pts

1500pts

Thanks again everyone (particually Sazzle'), I would take a singing spear but I like the extra attack or witchblades and its more economical and lets me use this model:



thanks again, Dave.

Your current list is 20pts over. Recalculate your fire dragons, 6 x 16 + 12+ 5 + 90 + 10 = 213

I like doom, you may like guide. Guide = one unit hits, one unit better. Doom = all units wound, one unit better. Also when it comes to re-rolls... most of your army hits 66% or better, but against marines, you wound mostly 50% of the time... rerolls are most beneficial when you have lower chances of success, so... I choose to reroll wounds.

I am a fan of the singing spear for 1 reason, I was beaten (minor loss) to armored company the first time I ever played it in a tournament, in fact I was so green I thought my opponent was cheating by bringing more than 3 leman russes, and my friends took great delight taking pictures of me with large blast templates all over me! Since then any chance I get to punk a tank, I 'll squeeze it into my list. If I have to take out 1 dire avenger to get 2 singing spears and waste the last 6 pts, I'll do it.
Also... no flamers other than wraithlords? tsk tsk :p

Right now I'm trying to squeeze 2 elms onto the shuriken armed waveserpents... It'll be better, but I can't find the points to justify it.