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I'm pretty much a casual player. I started playing a few months ago, building a Necron force, and my fiancee started building Space Wolves.

She fields Logan Grimnar, and takes pretty much nothing but 10-man Wolfguard Termies and an LR.

It's very disconcerting for me. A warscythe destroyer helps me, but even if he takes a termie or two, I don't last long against PF/TH hits.

I've been trying to use Immortals and Destroyers to outmobilize her, trying to soften them up as they approach. I'm even considering Pariahs, but I'm probably not going to include them as I never would bother with them except against this situation, and it would be unfair to do so.

Hell, even at my LGS, termies in large quantities can give me a problem. Any advice for Crons to handle this?

Basically you answered your own question - the pariahs are a good answer as a counter-assault force. Also note the C'tan models deny invulnerable saves as well.

As a necron player you should have a TON of warriors. Fire enough rapid fire shots at them and they will die. Tie em up with scarabs to halt their advance. Never get into cc with them. Make them take as many saves as possible.

So I should be firing rapid fire shots, but not get into assault range? That makes no sense.

Especially since 20 gauss rifle shots is, on average, only going to take down about 2 termies.

From what I have read in the Army list forum, most competitive builds are taking minimal amounts of warriors. Perhaps the OP would be better suited to post his list there and contextualize your request for help by giving army builds you expect to face frequently.

Ostrakon wrote:So I should be firing rapid fire shots, but not get into assault range? That makes no sense.

Especially since 20 gauss rifle shots is, on average, only going to take down about 2 termies.

What else are you gonna do? They will wipe you in assault. Shoot them with more then one squad. Focus a squad down at a time. Destroyers are great at this too as they get 3 shots each. Dont spread your fire out.

Dracos wrote:From what I have read in the Army list forum, most competitive builds are taking minimal amounts of warriors. Perhaps the OP would be better suited to post his list there and contextualize your request for help by giving army builds you expect to face frequently.

Okay, I do in fact have a warrior-minimal list, which is fine because nobody at my LGS plays anything but Annihilation or some kind of Victory Point game. I typically play them at 1000,1500,2000, and 2250. My most common opponents are various Marine chapters and CSM, IG,, and Tau. Every once in a while an Ork player shows up.

Here's my 1500 point list.

HQ
Lord 100
Destroyer Body 30
Warscythe 10
Phase Shifter 30

Lord 100
Res Orb 40
Gaze of Flame 15

325 total

Troops
10 Warriors 180
10 Warriors 180

360 total

Elite
10 Immortals 280
280 total

Fast Attack
3 Destroyers 150
3 Destroyers 150
300 total

Heavy Support
1 Monolith 235

1500 points exactly. When I play at 2250, I simply add 10 more immortals and 2 more Monoliths.

Basically, my strategy is using the Monolith as mobile cover, keeping my army as concealed as possible so my opponent has to walk right into either the range of the Monolith, Destroyers, and D. Lord to accomplish anything. I try to bait them into forcing phaseout by giving them nothing but crappy options. If they try to approach from an angle, my Immortals usually have a clear shot, too. I turboboost the lord in turn 1 to prepare an assault on a problematic vehicle or unit, and to draw fire that will usually be ineffective. My units, if placed right, are within the Orb's range and should have cover except for DSing units shooting at them.

This has been working phenomenally against my IG and tau opponents, and does pretty well against Marines unless I'm facing a buttload of termies. Even against my Ork opponents in the local 2250 tourneys I've been smoking due to triple Gauss flux projectors.

Also, people keep telling me to take more warriors to improve my phaseout count. I have never been in a situation where my force has been reduced to 25% and I had a chance of winning anyway. Phaseout seems like more of a time-saver if I'm getting creamed than a liability.

Use whatever long-range gauss you have to glance the Land Raiders to death. Keep your warriors back at 24" and use them for potshotting. Use the Immortals and Destroyers to continually glance the Landies. Sure, you might not kill it, but you should be able to immobilise it.

I love facing SM, even if they have loads of termies. I try to keep a very mobile Necron force so I don't caught in CC...until those few moments where I want to charge. I normally play at 1850 with

Lord, VoD, Chronometron, GoF
Nightbringer
20 Warriors
10 Warriors
4 Destroyers
4 Destroyers
Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Heavy Destroyer

If you can stay mobile and immobilize your opponent, you're golden. Monoliths are pretty good LR killers, but Destroyers can put enough shots into them to immobilize one. Make the SM get out and walk to you. Then, you can move around or teleport around to avoid CC. Remember we can take shooting better than anyone. I'd rather pour everything into a single LR with assault terminators then split up my fire on shooty units like Land Speeders, Dev Squads, Dreadnoughts, Vindicators, etc. A shooting army either needs durability or mobility. 5th ed assault rules killed our CC durability, so we have to get as much mobility as we can. After we get that, we need to practice patience and target priority. The rest is in the dice.

if you insist on going into CC, one option could be to team your lord on foot with some pariahs. Give the lord nightmare shroud and gaze of flame (i think that's right). Using this the termies will be forced to take a Ld test when they assault you, and their Ld will also be owered to 7 by the pariahs. You might be able to get them to run away without a hot beign thrown! Just make sure you chase them (use scarabs coz they will be able to keep up no problem) and stay within 6" so they can't auto-regroup, you might be able to chase them off the table!

One other thing to remember is termies cant sweeping advance so if you can live, you can run, get back up and shoot them, so big squads of warriors might be good!

Take the deceiver, and some monoliths to hide behind. This should help.

extrenm(54) wrote:Take the deceiver, and some monoliths to hide behind. This should help.

Not at 1500 points, it won't

Thanks for the advice, everyone. It's not that I'm insisting to go into CC myself, it's just that my opponent isn't going to politely wait for me to give him the go-ahead.

I think what I've resolved to do against assault termie spam is just to stay as mobile as possible using destroyers and just try to outshoot them. I'd love to take pariahs to solve the problem outright but my fiancee isn't exactly the kind of opponent I want to specifically cater my list to beat, because it's simply not worth the ensuing domestic hassle. But if I manage to beat her by just outshooting her and making it look close, it'll be better.

In all honesty your list is not that bad, some improvements that you could make to it though are dropping both of your Necron lords as well as the immortals and substitute in a Deceiver and fill the rest with more destroyers.

Immortals are great in higher point games after you have the max amount of destroyers already as destroyers are far superior in both movement and firepower allowing you to have more reliable AT firepower and the Deceiver is just a godly counter assault unit ignoring all saves forcing LD tests and allowing redeployment of your army which synergizes very well with the quick and mobile fire platforms that are the destroyers.

Ostrakon wrote:Okay, I do in fact have a warrior-minimal list, which is fine because nobody at my LGS plays anything but Annihilation or some kind of Victory Point game. I typically play them at 1000,1500,2000, and 2250. My most common opponents are various Marine chapters and CSM, IG,, and Tau. Every once in a while an Ork player shows up.

Normally, objective games are 2/3 of all the games played. If your FLGS only plays for VP missions that does change the overall strategy greatly. You should note that if you start heading to a different store, you will find that 2/3 of the games are very different.

My first advise to you to try and ignore the termies. If you have a lot of destroyers you can maneuver around them. Drop monoliths in front of the termies/LR so they have to move around the thing. If you can make him spend 5 turns trying to get the termies into assault, thier overall impact on the game is lessened.

Look, AV 14 is hard to crack. You can fire heavy gauss cannons into it all game and not immobolize/destroy it. Those shots will generate more VPs for you if you spend them cracking open his smaller units, like landspeeders, bikes, rhinos, etc.... Your playing for VPs, thats it. Just make sure you generate more than he does.

I don't play necrons so this is more of a question than an answer..but would scarabs be a cheap alternative to tie up the termies?
Can they delay a full complament of terminators for a couple of turns to let you manuever your forces to a safe distance so you can unload into them the next turns?

Holy~Heretic wrote:Can they delay a full complament of terminators for a couple of turns to let you manuever your forces to a safe distance so you can unload into them the next turns?

Power fists, thunder hammers, or chainfists all instant kill scarab swarms. As each terminator has 2 attacks, or 3 when charging, the odds don't look good for scarabs.

labmouse42 wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Okay, I do in fact have a warrior-minimal list, which is fine because nobody at my LGS plays anything but Annihilation or some kind of Victory Point game. I typically play them at 1000,1500,2000, and 2250. My most common opponents are various Marine chapters and CSM, IG,, and Tau. Every once in a while an Ork player shows up.

Normally, objective games are 2/3 of all the games played. If your FLGS only plays for VP missions that does change the overall strategy greatly. You should note that if you start heading to a different store, you will find that 2/3 of the games are very different.

My first advise to you to try and ignore the termies. If you have a lot of destroyers you can maneuver around them. Drop monoliths in front of the termies/LR so they have to move around the thing. If you can make him spend 5 turns trying to get the termies into assault, thier overall impact on the game is lessened.

Look, AV 14 is hard to crack. You can fire heavy gauss cannons into it all game and not immobolize/destroy it. Those shots will generate more VPs for you if you spend them cracking open his smaller units, like landspeeders, bikes, rhinos, etc.... Your playing for VPs, thats it. Just make sure you generate more than he does.

Yeah, I have a different "general" list for people who actually roll for game type. But thanks for the caveat anyway.

In all honesty your list is not that bad, some improvements that you could make to it though are dropping both of your Necron lords as well as the immortals and substitute in a Deceiver and fill the rest with more destroyers.

Immortals are great in higher point games after you have the max amount of destroyers already as destroyers are far superior in both movement and firepower allowing you to have more reliable AT firepower and the Deceiver is just a godly counter assault unit ignoring all saves forcing LD tests and allowing redeployment of your army which synergizes very well with the quick and mobile fire platforms that are the destroyers.

I was really considering the deciever but every time I try to proxy him I end up disappointed. Is he considered a better strategic asset overall, and the types of opponents I'm playing just aren't the kinds that he would normally excel against? A lot of the people I play against are fairly new too.

Generally speaking the deceiver is IMHO the best thing going for the necron HQ slot, but one thing to keep in mind is that yes he is tricky to get the hang of sometimes and will be considered "cheese" by anyone that throws his ultimate uber unit at him only to have him chew them up.

A few things on his use:

Pick your fights! The Deceiver can literally choose whether he wants to fight in close combat or not so use this to its maximum advantage. Getting charged by a unit of TH/SS? Screw that step back and let them face a round of gauss fire before assaulting them again on your turn and wiping out the unit.

Keep him hidden! With T8 and a 4++ save yes he can take some punishment but that dose not mean that he has to, in my experience he draws fire like crazy and if you opponent has lots of assault canons or massed high str firepower he wont last long. So keep him behind a monolith until hes close enough to pop out and ruin somebody's day. If possible its always a good idea to give him line of sight to an infantry unit that's in range to fire off his LD check while still keeping a monolith between him and those nasty st6+ massed fire

The Deceiver's favorite food are smaller elite units that can threaten your warriors (termies and such) and MEQ units are great targets of opportunity as well. In a pinch you can use him to grab a swarm if its threatening your line but its best to avoid doing that as the swarm, while cannot it hurt him will keep him tied down and out of the game .

Hope that helps some! And im glad to see new players keeping the necron spirit alive and continuing the red harvest!

She fields Logan Grimnar, and takes pretty much nothing but 10-man Wolfguard Termies and an LR.

A Termie heavy force is a nemesis army for Necrons.

I'm going to agree with the other guy on this thread and tell you to SPAM warriors. Take squads of 15 warriors so you don't get wiped out in 1 assault. Take 2 Monoliths to bring you out of CC, and take 3 small squads of scarabs. This list is incredibly powerful. You can glance the hell out of the Land raiders, and just tear the army down piece by piece. If they get into assault range of your warriors, your scarabs are there to take the first assault. Once the scarabs are gone, everything is in rapid fire range so you can take a lot of stuff down with sheer volume.

I have seen this list and have watched it tear down Mech orks, as well as mech tau. Its def an awesome list.