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So I was flippin through my codex and saw that a Lord Commissar can buy a dedicated transport Chimera. Why?

So I thought, "Hey, if he joins a Grey Knight Terminator squad and they all get in his Chimera, and Creed lets them outflank..."

Then, I just about pooped my pants so I asked my FLGS dude that runs all our stuff if I could do it. He said no.

pp. 67 "The only limitation of a dedicated transport is that when it is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any independant characters)."

Logically, why the hell would I buy a chimera for a lone Commissar other than to allow a squad (such as ratlings, penal legions, etc.) to get a transport they would not normally have the chance for?


So, what I ask is "Does this rule go both ways, allowing independant characters (especially an influential commissar) to drag a unit into their dedicated transport?"

No, as the GK Terminators are not the unit the transport was bought for.

IIRC Terminators can't be transported by chimeras.

Nenya97 wrote:Logically, why the hell would I buy a chimera for a lone Commissar other than to allow a squad (such as ratlings, penal legions, etc.) to get a transport they would not normally have the chance for?

That's exactly why you would buy it. But they only have access to it once the game has started.

So, what I ask is "Does this rule go both ways, allowing independant characters (especially an influential commissar) to drag a unit into their dedicated transport?"

Nope. 'Fraid not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:IIRC Terminators can't be transported by chimeras.

Nope, no such restriction. Chimeras have always been able to transport models in Terminator armour.

And thus, I remain the local rules guru. Bwuahahaha!

So there is no purpose for the Lord Commissar having a dedicated transport because only he can start the game it, not him and his attatched unit.

Nenya97 wrote:So there is no purpose for the Lord Commissar having a dedicated transport because only he can start the game it, not him and his attatched unit.

Incorrect, just because they can't deploy in it, doesn't mean they can't hop into it on turn 1 & drive around.

Then, once the Commissar joins another unit, he is not the same unit that purchased the dedicated transport?

Nope. If he joins a unit, he becomes a part of that unit.

And thus the Chimera can not transport the unit it was selected for? It seems that is the point of a transport for an Independant character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot how cynical people were about RAI

Yes, it can transport the unit - the IC, by himself. Or, turn 1, the IC + unit (or any other unit) can embark on it.

Nenya97 wrote:And thus the Chimera can not transport the unit it was selected for? It seems that is the point of a transport for an Independant character.

The point of a transport for an IC is to
a) move him around the board faster
and
b) allow him to provide a taxi service for other units.

The Commissar can do both of these things. Other units are simply restricted from starting the game in the transport.

I forgot how cynical people were about RAI

There's nothing cynical about it. Someone was trying to find a way to allow Grey Knights (who were designed specifically to not use transport vehicles) to start the game in another unit's dedicated transport.

RAI, as near as I can divine it, is just as heavily against that idea as RAW is.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, it can transport the unit - the IC, by himself. Or, turn 1, the IC + unit (or any other unit) can embark on it.

This, i mean, so what if they dont start in it? small bump you gotta pay for not paying 250 points for a LR.

insaniak wrote:There's nothing cynical about it. Someone was trying to find a way to allow Grey Knights (who were designed specifically to not use transport vehicles) to start the game in another unit's dedicated transport.

RAI, as near as I can divine it, is just as heavily against that idea as RAW is.

Okay, so next time I start a thread I'll make sure to not mention any units to make sure that no one gets scared and makes a biased decision? Also, Grey Knights can, in fact, get transports but they are heavy support slots in the Daemonhunter book, AND you must take a grey knight hero to even have access to them. So I do not know where "who were designed specifically to not use transport vehicles" came from

Anyways,

It's not because I do not want to buy a 250 pt transport, it is because I can't buy a land raider in an imperial guard army that the termies can start in. I thought this might have been a way for units that do not have a transport option to get one. Not specifically for the termies but for others like techpriests, ratlings, penal legions, and other attatchments like heavy weapons teams.

I just do not see the purpose of giving an independent character a dedicated transport if they are literally the only model who can start in them, making the first turn having to be jumping into the vehicle is not much of a hassle but it is something that just restricts how far a transport (that is there to move men more quickly) has to limit its first turn movement because of a rule that does not go both ways.

I honestly think it is something they did not really expect to have be an issue, because how many other IC can buy a dedicated transport?

The RAW say "the unit and any attatched IC" but there is no reason this should not be interprated also as "IC and any attatched unit."

Because the subject of the sentence, *the unit*, is in fact the IC in this case - because that is the unit the transport was bought for.

So, if you substitute the IC in you get:

"the Lord Commissar and any attached IC" - so you could transport another IC in the vehicle from the start.

It doesn't slow down movement at all except in Dawn of War, and even then just barely. You're fully allowed to start out next to a transport, get in turn one and move the full 12". You just don't get to use a Dedicated Transport from one Codex to get a unit from another Codex to Outflank.

And you had no intention of using this for anything from the Guard book, I've never seen you ever field or talk about fielding one of those units you mentioned. You texted me bragging that you found a way to let Grey Knight Terminators Outflank in a Chimera. You don't ask a rules question, and then throw out snide insults like that RAI comment when people don't give you the answer you wanted them to.

Nope, I never seriously thought of using those units in transports. Maybe penal legions or maaaybe ratlings. So next time I will make sure to ask about a rules question and not a "Hey, can I do this?" So I can maybe get an honest answer.

I throw "snide insults" when I get a response based on "well, that would be cheesy so I'm gonna have to say 'no.'" and not a logical reason about something that seems to be odd.

I guess the most logical reason I saw against it has been nosferatu1001. Everything before that was just a "no" getting treated like an idiot.

Either way, why would this actually be done? You could put max 5 terminators in the chimera and thats wasting 370 pts (lord, captain, 4 dudes) while for just a little more points i can get 3 vendettas to have just about the same effect?

You were told No, which was the correct answer to your question, and then told why in the very first post with a simple matter of fact answer. It was repeated by someone else in the third post. You argued it, and was told again, it's a simple rule in the book that tells you you're not allowed to, which you then replied with your RAI remark.

No one treated you like an idiot except me, because I know you and you know I treat everyone like that in a good natured manner, and because your initial text to me was a bragging nature.

Again, just because you don't like the answer to the question you asked does not mean people were treating you like an idiot not give you right to toss insults at them.

Nenya97 wrote:Nope, I never seriously thought of using those units in transports. Maybe penal legions or maaaybe ratlings. So next time I will make sure to ask about a rules question and not a "Hey, can I do this?" So I can maybe get an honest answer.

You received an honest answer. Going by your response, it's not the answer you were looking for, but it would have been the same no matter which units you were talking about.

I throw "snide insults" when I get a response based on "well, that would be cheesy so I'm gonna have to say 'no.'" and not a logical reason about something that seems to be odd.

Nobody in this thread has said no on the grounds that it's cheesy. You've been given the RAW on the issue. You were the one who brought up RAI... my point about Grey Knights and transports was in response to that, not the original question.

I guess the most logical reason I saw against it has been nosferatu1001. Everything before that was just a "no" getting treated like an idiot.

I would recommend taking a step back and reading the posts again. You asked a question, and received an answer. I'm honestly not sure where you're getting the 'treated like an idiot' from.

Having played a pure GK army in the past I think you aren't doing yourself any favors by trying to outflank them anyway.

The points you spend on GKs both in PA and TA, are spent on what amounts to shooty units. GKs should not be assaulting anything until a little later in the game as their strength lies in using the shrouding to protect them while peppering the enemy at long range with psycannons and then outshooting the enemy at mid-range with storm bolters.