Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What is YMDC point of view on questionable movements?

My main reason for asking is because lately i have seen some rather dodgy work in movements. A friend of mine plays tyranids and on every movement was mimimum 1 or 2 inches over. In the long run of the game, over moving can make a big impact on overall game outcomes. Especially since tyranids are close combat orientated, over movements can be a big deal.

Now i dont mean for this to be a bitching session. I am just wondering what to do in this situation. I understand how this game is imperfect and movements are not precise. I play to have fun, thats my main policy and that why it really doesnt bother me. Im sure on multiple occasions i could be accused of making improper movements, but i get a bit irritated when its a constant thing.

So what do you do? People are offended easily and im sure it would cause debate.

In my situation, my opponent was a long time friend and if i was truly bothered all i would have to do was politely mention it, but what about other people?

Lets discuss.



**Also, if this doesnt belong in YMDC please move to whever appropriate.

Best thing to do is goto Gale Force 9 and order one of their movement devices. This is a measuring device that is 6" on one end, 2" on one end, and 4" on the other end. Tell your opponent to use this and make him place it on the table BEFORE moving. This way he can not over move.

The YMTC point of view is "Follow the rules", which would be, errm, measure, I guess.

Hack one of the 18" red range-rulers into a 6" and a 12" and, as the previous poster mentioned, lay them on the table during movement. 6" & 12" are common measurements so it works out well. Your opponent shouldn't be able to radically over-move using this method.

It depends on your relationship I guess - amongst my friends it'd be a case of yelling "Oy! Move that back you cheeky b**tard!", but each to their own

I suppose, i should mention i dont play tournaments and never have. So i wouldnt know how its officially done. I play casually and wondering if anyone else has had problems.

Obviously measure is the solution, but people generally dont take kindly to "Your doing it wrong"

I was at a tournament at GW HQ last weekend and people generally took a casual view to most things - I was pleasantly surprised actually, it was my first tournament and I was expecting some bad attitudes and a host of rules-lawyers.

We were playing Tyranids and had a lot of figures to move every turn, typically we'd measure the first figure accurately and then move the rest of the unit roughly along side. I didn't have a complaint all day.

mrwittwer wrote:

Obviously measure is the solution, but people generally dont take kindly to "Your doing it wrong"

If they are worth knowing/playing they do. people make mistakes, but the rules on movement are surprisingly clear. Have a range rule/tape measure handy and get them to use it.

I know this is a couple days old, sorry.

I just wanted to say that I have called people out for this before. When they move the first model more than 6 inches, I just tell them "that looked like more than 6 inches". They put the model back to its original spot and then remeasure. I have yet to see someone over move the second time. And the rest of the game goes smoothly.

I have not had any bad responses to it, but I do try to be polite. I don't call them names or wait till the whole unit is moved. If you catch them on the first time, then I find that players tend to be more careful after that. YMMV.

People do fudge. I don't mean "cheat" in the evil sense but just kind of fudging forward a touch. I usually watch how the player moves carefully the first turn. If they are using the measuring stick or similar and their squad ends up about the same shape I don't worry too much. But if they are a fudger (and it is usually clear right from the get go) I immediately say something. I try to smile and act casual but it is usually pretty easy to clear things up. If the deployment called for max 12" from the edge, the deployed infantry cannot be 19" from the edge at the end of their movement phase (at least for units I can recall). If you nip it in the bud they will usually be more careful.

If you question someone's move and they go angry marine and bust your chops right away this is usually a good indicator that they are indeed cheating. When this happens I just change my game plan. I stop worrying about it. Play out the game and don't take the result to heart. If somebody needs their little victory that bad it isn't worth your trouble.

I once had an eldar player doing the tons of dice rolling and picking up the "hits" faster than you could see the dice. I had to ask him to pick up the "misses" because "I" couldn't keep track. He blustered a bit and proceeded to fudge every aspect of the game. I hung in there and, thanks to awesomesauce on some rolls for saves got a draw on the objectives and won on points. Very satisfying. Even though he was fudging I did learn more about the eldar so there was some value. I will never play him again. At the shop I go to he can rarely get a game as no one else cares to play him either. He isn't a jerk or anything but the game is really all about community and he is losing that big time.

As to the idea of "put the model back to its original spot and then remeasure" more carefully – it doesn't always work. The other day I played a kid and he has his Vindicator shoot at my Rhino. He almost laid the tape down but I asked quickly are you shooting this Rhino. After confirmation he drops the tape and it is 26" away. So next turn I move (through difficult terrain and fortunately do not role a 1) 6" away from his Vindi. He moves and declares that he wants to shoot my Rhino again – but he is now measuring 23" away. I didn't jump down his throat but I had to call him on it. So he moves it "back" and then "remeasures." Still about 23." So I tried to nicely explain that I don't care where he started from, if both vehicles moved 6," 26 plus 6 minus six still equals 26. So I just asked him to accept another miss or to move his vindi to 26" away from my Rhino and start his move over.

Tantras wrote:I was at a tournament at GW HQ last weekend and people generally took a casual view to most things - I was pleasantly surprised actually, it was my first tournament and I was expecting some bad attitudes and a host of rules-lawyers.

We were playing Tyranids and had a lot of figures to move every turn, typically we'd measure the first figure accurately and then move the rest of the unit roughly along side. I didn't have a complaint all day.

A little off-topic here, but I'm very glad to read this, and it needs to be said more. I see the same thing from some of my friends who don't go to tournaments very often, but read sites like this. They get this impression that tournaments are made up entirely of TFG and WAAC and rules lawyers and all the other crap, everyone models for advantage, every minute little thing must be WYSIWYG (even things that aren't optional, like bolt pistols on marines that also have bolters). The truth is that the vast majority of people at tournaments are just as laid back as people in casual games. And even the ones that are serious about winning are still nice, make at least an attempt at being friendly, and don't actively try to make dick moves. At most, they'll bring cutthroat armies and play hard, but not attempt to exploit or do other stuff.

If a person's only experience of tournaments is reading about the dreaded "tournament player" on the internet (where the term is almost synonymous with TFG), I think they're really being done a disservice, as I've been to a huge variety of tournaments and almost every single game and opponent was very enjoyable. (Yes, I said almost, but the same could be said of any random pick-up game with someone you don't know.)

Glad to hear you enjoyed yourself at the tourney...hope it'll be a regular thing.

Happens alot, i plan ahead usually and move only enough so that i'm still out of charge range. Deploy 11" on and move forward 3, so i should be 22 inches away. Then i get charged by orks (12 inch move + 1 for RPJ +2 disembark +6 assault = 21) who should still be 1" away. The look on some peoples faces when i explain this to them is priceless. But i often find its the younger players who are more prone to "fudging" dice rolls or moving a little further.

dayve110 wrote:Happens alot, i plan ahead usually and move only enough so that i'm still out of charge range. Deploy 11" on and move forward 3, so i should be 22 inches away. Then i get charged by orks (12 inch move + 1 for RPJ +2 disembark +6 assault = 21) who should still be 1" away. The look on some peoples faces when i explain this to them is priceless. But i often find its the younger players who are more prone to "fudging" dice rolls or moving a little further.

(12 inch move + 1 for RPJ +2 disembark +1 for the width of the base because only a sliver of it has to be within 2" of the vehicle +6 assault = 22)

Um, no, it would be 21.9999999999999999999". Yes, only a sliver must be with 2", but that sliver MUST be with 2".

Also, the base isn't 1" across, it's slightly less.

In the scenario dayve110 presents, it would be impossible for the orcs to make an assault without a Waagh.

*gives saldiven a cookie*

Saw more of things like this happening today. You notice it all the time when your looking for it. An extra inch here and there isn't so bad and most people let it slide but people get real picky when the enemy is nearing charge range.

I agree with the red measure stick chop jobs. It works great, BUT measure with a tape measure first, as the measurements on the red sticks are actually off.

Also, tell your friend (specially with hordes) to measure and move the front line of a unit. Then just pile the rest in, saves a boat load of time.

But you HAVE to be watchful for moving violations, because as you said, 1 turn isnt much, but at the end of the game, hey hey Im in assault range some how, and btw I play Orks lol. If someone makes a movement mistake, just politely correct them. "hey measure from the front of the base, and the front of the base goes to the measure mark, not the back of the base. " Easy fix. If someone gets all uppety about it, then they are clearly TFG and just wants to win win win, because they cant possibly accept another loss. If it gets heated, call a redshirt over, or if your at someones group, call another person over and explain. Simple way to get the game going again

Saldiven wrote:Um, no, it would be 21.9999999999999999999". Yes, only a sliver must be with 2", but that sliver MUST be with 2".

Also, the base isn't 1" across, it's slightly less.

In the scenario dayve110 presents, it would be impossible for the orcs to make an assault without a Waagh.

Who's to say he didn't move his models .0000000000001" too far forward? If someone wants to be that anal and place their units a hundredth of a milimeter out of range and then rage about cheating when their opponent in a friendly game makes what to them appear to me completely legitimate moves then it's not entirely the assaulting players fault.
We don't play with laser micrometers, leave a solid inch and avoid the entire issue altogether rather than creating a situation to enable it.

dayve110 wrote:Happens alot, i plan ahead usually and move only enough so that i'm still out of charge range. Deploy 11" on

I hope you don't mean you measure how far you are placing them at the start. But then how else would you know for sure that you placed them exactly 11" on?

The rules state on p.3 that "players are not allowed to measure any distance except when the rules call for it."

So you can measure out your deployment zone and mark the boundaries on the board somehow, but you CAN'T simply measure how far on the board each model is - the rules never tell you to do so.

Dracos wrote:

dayve110 wrote:Happens alot, i plan ahead usually and move only enough so that i'm still out of charge range. Deploy 11" on

I hope you don't mean you measure how far you are placing them at the start. But then how else would you know for sure that you placed them exactly 11" on?

The rules state on p.3 that "players are not allowed to measure any distance except when the rules call for it."

So you can measure out your deployment zone and mark the boundaries on the board somehow, but you CAN'T simply measure how far on the board each model is - the rules never tell you to do so.

If the deployment zone is 12" on... its not hard to deploy 11" on without measuring... or are you trying to look for an argument?

I think this thread has run it's course now. There's nothing left to see here, folks.

dayve110 wrote:If the deployment zone is 12" on... its not hard to deploy 11" on without measuring... or are you trying to look for an argument?

They were arguing that they knew they were exactly 11" as in, the dude said he should be 21.99999999. How would you know that without measuring?

1" can be approximated, but to state with cetainty that someone should be .00000001 inch short would require measuring and is not allowed. That is what I'm saying.

I just look at them questioningly when they over move and say "oh, I thought they only moved 6inches"

The opponent is called out for their shoddy movement without you actually saying or implying openly that they are cheating. Most players would proberly be embarassed and ensure they move properly. And also it shouldn't cause any friction between gamers.

I do this with my opponents and the worst I've had is a grumpy gamer for the rest of the battle *shrugs*

If its a regular I know well then I take the michael something rotten and we both laugh about it.

Something I notice a ton in 5e, is how oddly people interpret the scatter die. I can't tell if it's a perspective thing or something, one side of the table sees it differently than the other, but I see a lot of strange interpretation of the angle on the scatter die, so that the pie plate happens to miss that big cluster of Kroot.

It's especially strange, because it seems like even otherwise honest people will just totally warp the scatter by 20 degrees.

They either just hold the tape up not at all parallel and then act like they're eyeballing it as even, or they do the thing where they put the tape right over the scatter die, then as it flies over to the actual models in question, it drifts to a nice happy angle that doesn't hit their models (or scatter the DS off the table, etc. etc.).

One other thing... From time to time, I'll be playing somebody that strikes me as casual or shady with their measuring, and at the start of their turn I'll say "ok, is that Dread gonna assault my Rhino?" "Oh yeah!" "Ok, then measure that 12" right now." None of this 7.5" move that ends up 5.98" away BS. If it's 12" before you move, then you can assault. One less chance to cheat.

Phryxis wrote:
It's especially strange, because it seems like even otherwise honest people will just totally warp the scatter by 20 degrees.

Tiredness. I got up at 4am to get to work at 6am then worked to 4pm and hung in my FLGS until 10pm... My scatter interpretations were way off that my opponent had to point out that i did in fact hit his models when i though i had not and vice versa... I actually did a double take on some because i swear the die changed since i looked at it 3 seconds ago... Don't game if your tired, or have a friend help you

But certain people will always misinterpret any dice roll to affect the maximum amount of death (or avoid it)

i've found that having a third party watching the game and pointing out the movement irregularities tends to go alonG way towards stopping it.
if it's a regular occurance with someone you play, have someone else hang out. it sounds like they'd notice it quickly. once they're called on it i find
that they rarely repeat offend.

dayve110 wrote:I actually did a double take on some because i swear the die changed since i looked at it 3 seconds ago...

There's the possibility that you were playing a stage magician deft in the art of misdirection and sleight of hand. Did your opponent have a cape and top hat?

You call them out.. but not in a judgemental way.

Like hey man thats not 6 inches.. in a clam voice rather then...

What the hell! Your a cheater etc.

Shaman wrote:You call them out.. but not in a judgemental way.

Like hey man thats not 6 inches.. in a clam voice rather then...

What the hell! Your a cheater etc.

I find your attitude a bit shellfish. BADUM BISH!


Seriously though, if I had a unit of outflanking stealers running at an important squad I would, with the opponents permission, measure their distance from the board and work out they need, for example, 3+ on the fleet to assault. Saves massive arguments on game-turning situations.