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Alright so my friend and I have been playing for 8 years together now. He has stayed faithful to the Emperor all these long years and still to this day has trouble not getting routed or tabled. I'm really trying to help him out with building his lists, and he takes the advise well. So this is his most recent list that he has sent me, now I have my issues with it and he knows what they are, but I wanted to bring it here to here what suggestions you all have, anything from tactics to overall changes. Also note that he plays against Chaos, Tau, Eldar, Tyranids, IG, and other SM.

HQ 505
Vulcan 190
Honor Guard 115 + 2 relic weapons 145
Drop pod 35
Chaplin 100 + Bike 35 135

Troop 645
Tactical squad 1 170+plasma gun+Missile Launcher 180
Tactical squad 2 170+flamer+strom bolter+power weapon+Rhino 230
Tactical squad 3 170 +melta gun+combi-melta+power weapon+rhino 235

Elite 410
Iron clad dread w/ heavy flamer in drop pod 180
dread with assault cannon 115
dread with assault cannon 115

Fast attack 310
Bikes with flamer, melta gun, power weapon, attack bike w/ heavy bolter 160
Attack bikes with 3 multi-meltas 150

Heavy support 130
Predator with twin-linked lascannons and heavy bolter sponsons 130


Any help means alot to me, and I thank you in advance. I wanna help my buddy win a game on his own for once!

I'm new at this so take my advice with a grain of salt, but he should utilize Vulkan's global buffs more. He makes all flamers, heavy flamers, meltas, and multi-meltas twin-linked while also making all thunder hammers master-crafted, so his army should reflect those buffs and go heavy on those weapons. Also Vulkan can't take an Honour Guard with him, he actually can't even take a command squad with him unfortunately.

Yeah, this list pretty much ignores the advantages that vulkan grants... It's not a BAD list (well, it has problems) it just isn't written to efficiently use Vulkan. Tell your friend to try again.

I remember writing a vulkan list with

vulkan
2 x 5 x assault termies
3 x 5 x scouts
3 x 2 x mm attack bikes.

Kind of a glass tiger but still it scared the crap outta people inordinately.

ender502

Billie_Joe wrote:Vulcan 190

Love Vulcan. He is probably the best Special Character option in the Marine Codex. But he needs to play his army as a reflection of Vulcan, so as to get the most out of him. Vulcan can literally earn all his points back first turn.

Billie_Joe wrote:Honor Guard 115 + 2 relic weapons 145
Drop pod 35

Can't take these with Vulcan, so don't worry about em. He just saved 180 points that can be used elsewhere.

Billie_Joe wrote:Chaplin 100 + Bike 35 135

This will go great with your squads. Love it. I would only add that he should take a PF on the Chaplain.

Billie_Joe wrote:Tactical squad 1 170+plasma gun+Missile Launcher 180

Switch this to Flamer/MM+PF=195

Billie_Joe wrote:Tactical squad 2 170+flamer+strom bolter+power weapon+Rhino 230

Melta/HB+PF+Rhino=235. That is a much better load out. Power fists are almost a must in in Tact. Squads.

Billie_Joe wrote:Tactical squad 3 170 +melta gun+combi-melta+power weapon+rhino 235

Flamer/MM+PF+Rhino=230

Billie_Joe wrote:Iron clad dread w/ heavy flamer in drop pod 180

Billie_Joe wrote:dread with assault cannon 115

Nope, don't take another dread. If he takes just the Iron dread that saves him 230 pts. Right there he has a TH/SS+Dual LCs Assault Termie squad.

Billie_Joe wrote:Bikes with flamer, melta gun, power weapon, attack bike w/ heavy bolter 160

If he gives his Chappy a PF, it will compliment this squad very, very well.

Billie_Joe wrote:Attack bikes with 3 multi-meltas 150

I would say to take 2 Land Speeders of the MM/HF variant instead.

Billie_Joe wrote:Predator with twin-linked lascannons and heavy bolter sponsons 130

I love the Pred, but it should be all las or all dakka. I suggest going with the all Dakka version since he has plenty of anti-tank.

If he takes my suggestions his list will look like this:

HQ
Vulcan - 190
Chaplain+Bike+PF=150

Elites:
Ironclad Dread+HF+Drop=180

Troops:
Tact Squad
Flamer/MM+PF=195

Tact Squad
Melta/HB+PF+Rhino=235

Tact Squad
Flamer/MM+PF+Rhino=230

Fast Attack:
Bike Squad
Flamer/Melta, HB Att. Bike, PW=160

2xLand Speeder
HF/MM=140

Heavy Support:
Dakka Pred=85

Total=1565

With 400+ pts to play around with I say add this in:
Assault Termies
4xTH/SS, 1xDual LCs

Land Raider Reedemer+MM=250

This adds a punch to his list, and it brings the total to 2015. He could easily trim some fat off this list to bring it down to 2000, and that will leave him with a dead killy army.

Thanks so far guys! Anyone else?

With regards to the biker chappy, let him keep his power weapon and hide the power fist with the sergeant you are going to attach him to, the sarge can hide his I1 in the squad, the chaplain can't.

HQ
Vulkan
190pts

HQ Master of the Forge
Power Sword 15pts
115pts

Squad A
Melta Gun
Free Heavy weapon of choice(would advice Missile or Multi Melta)
+5x Marines
Power Fist
200pts

Squad B
Flamer
Free Heavy Weapon of Choice(Same as Above)
+5x Marines
Power Fist
195pts

Tactical Squad C
Melta Gun
Free Heavy Weapon of Choice (S.A.A)
+5x Marines
Power Fist
200pts

Squad D
Flamer
Free Heavy Weapon of Choice(Same as Above)
+5x Marines
Power Fist
195pts

Razorback A
Extra Armor
Dozer Blade
TL Plasma/Las Cannon
95pts

Razorback B
Extra Armor
Dozer Blade
TL Plasma/Las Cannon
95pts

Razorback C
Extra Armor
Dozer Blade
TL Plasma/Las Cannon
95pts

Razorback D
Extra Armor
Dozer Blade
TL Plasma/Las Cannon
95pts




Heavy Support
Ironclad Dreadnought
Heavy Flamer
Ironclad Assault Launchers
160pts

Heavy Support
Dreadnought
Hvy Flamer
Extra Armor
130pts

Heavy Support
Dreadnought
Hvy Flamer
Extra Armor
130pts

Drop Pod
35pts

Drops Pod
35pts

Drop Pod
35pts

this list should be 2k on the button, giving you the ability to hit home hard with the drop pods, or if the guy wants to reserve everything you can roll forward for a turn or two unmolested. this should keep your friend moblie enough to keep up with the other armies he is facing, though of course depending on the tables in your area(or how much faith he has in his dices), he could shave some points by dropping the Dozer Blades and Extra Armor(another 80pts) and place the points else where(for ex. Multi Melta Attack Bike, and Combi weapons for three of the Sgts).

JEB_Stuart wrote:

Billie_Joe wrote:Vulcan 190

Love Vulcan. He is probably the best Special Character option in the Marine Codex. But he needs to play his army as a reflection of Vulcan, so as to get the most out of him. Vulcan can literally earn all his points back first turn.

Billie_Joe wrote:Honor Guard 115 + 2 relic weapons 145
Drop pod 35

Can't take these with Vulcan, so don't worry about em. He just saved 180 points that can be used elsewhere.

Agreed and they're not very good either, Vulkan needs to be in a shooty list with Hammernators providing the assault.

Billie_Joe wrote:Chaplin 100 + Bike 35 135

This will go great with your squads. Love it. I would only add that he should take a PF on the Chaplain.

I wouldn't bother in a Vulkan list as the only assault element you should be taking will re-roll anyway due to master crafted...

Billie_Joe wrote:Tactical squad 1 170+plasma gun+Missile Launcher 180

Switch this to Flamer/MM+PF=195

Also put it in a transport.

Billie_Joe wrote:Tactical squad 2 170+flamer+strom bolter+power weapon+Rhino 230

Melta/HB+PF+Rhino=235. That is a much better load out. Power fists are almost a must in in Tact. Squads.

agreed, not a fan of the heavy bolter though.

Billie_Joe wrote:Tactical squad 3 170 +melta gun+combi-melta+power weapon+rhino 235

Flamer/MM+PF+Rhino=230

Agreed

Billie_Joe wrote:Iron clad dread w/ heavy flamer in drop pod 180

This is fine, though not sure it is necessary. Hammernators would be better in a Vulkan list.

Billie_Joe wrote:dread with assault cannon 115

Nope, don't take another dread. If he takes just the Iron dread that saves him 230 pts. Right there he has a TH/SS+Dual LCs Assault Termie squad.

Never take any LCs in a Terminator assault squad even if Vulkan isn't in the list I'd drop either this pair of dreads or the Iron clad for Hammernators not fussed which.

Billie_Joe wrote:Bikes with flamer, melta gun, power weapon, attack bike w/ heavy bolter 160

If he gives his Chappy a PF, it will compliment this squad very, very well.

Agreed, still not convinced this squad is necessary.

Billie_Joe wrote:Attack bikes with 3 multi-meltas 150

I would say to take 2 Land Speeders of the MM/HF variant instead.

Either way is fine Landspeeders can be easier to take out due to being harder to hide with TLoS, but they give you a more varied threat 2 MMs in a Vulkan list should be enough an 3 is a tad overkill.

Billie_Joe wrote:Predator with twin-linked lascannons and heavy bolter sponsons 130

I love the Pred, but it should be all las or all dakka. I suggest going with the all Dakka version since he has plenty of anti-tank.

Never EVER EVER take the TL Lascannon Turret! 60 points for 1 lascannon shot?!??! No thanks. Take the heavy bolter or Lascannon sponsons but always keep the autocannon turret. Lascannon sponson Pred is by far the most efficient load out I'd advise this for some long ranged anti-transport fire.