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hi all im new to the forums and I was wonder if you all could take a crack at my list!



Archon - punisher, t.helm , pg, SF, CD 137pts
incubi x5 - raider 180pts

wychesx8 - succubus, agoniser, wych weapon, pg, raider 195pts
wyches x8- succubus, agoniser, wych weapon, pg, raider 195pts

raider squad x6- SC, blaster, raider 118pts
raider squad x6- sc, blaster, raider 118pts
raider squad x5- sc, blaster, raider 110pts
warrior squad x10 - dark lances x2 100pts

ravager - x3 disintegrators 120pts
ravager- x3 disintegrators 120pts
talos - 100pts

1493 total

ok well talos is used for defense for my sniper squad and or assaulting basic infantry. I'm considering dropping it for a ravager with 3 dark lances because the talos can be so gimicky.

now i know for sure that an ork army will be in the tournament but I dont know how to fight orks especially horde orks. I've played against it already and i have no idea what to do. I cant touch him in assault and if the ravagers die then I have no way to kill his mobs.

a rough knowledge of the list

warboss with nobs and a pain boy with 3 power klaws and the rest uge choppas in a truck

90 choppa boys with 9 rokkit launchas
4 deff koptas with twin link rokkit lauchas and a power klaw

now i dont want to tailor my list to beat it but I highly doubt I could in the first place but I know that this army will either anhilate me or force a close draw (in his favor)

Hey welcome to Dakka!


I will be editing this post into a longish critique, so hang in there... while you are waiting take a look at Thors DE tactica. and listen to everything he has to say except when he lambastes warp beasts.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica

Archon - punisher, t.helm , pg, SF, CD 137pts
incubi x5 - raider 180pts

Not bad, I would drop an 2 incubi for 2 warrior to save some points and soak up a wound. Remember you don't want to kill they in one round and get shot to pieces on the opponents turn.

wychesx8 - succubus, agoniser, wych weapon, pg, raider 195pts
wyches x8- succubus, agoniser, wych weapon, pg, raider 195pts

Another good start, but I would run units of 6 instead, 8 is just a waste of points in 1500

raider squad x6- SC, blaster, raider 118pts
raider squad x6- sc, blaster, raider 118pts
raider squad x5- sc, blaster, raider 110pts

These are O.K but you need to drop the extra warriors, they are just bloat. If you have extra DL I would equip them instead of the SC, since the meta game has shifted to heavy mech and MC. The cannons just can't compete.

warrior squad x10 - dark lances x2 100pts

A great squad if you are short on raiders and/or troop slots. I would make this into a unit of 5 on a raider with 1 X DL, you lose 5 guys that wont be doing anything anyways and you gain mobility and a little more resilence.

ravager - x3 disintegrators 120pts
ravager- x3 disintegrators 120pts
talos - 100pts

I know some of us are not blessed with an abundance of boats, but if you have access to one drop the talos for another ravager. Because with the list you are running hes not going to see any action.


Here is the completed list:

1500 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster

1 Archon @ 258 pts (Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Punisher; Plasma Grenades)
1 Retinue
2 Warriors (Splinter Rifle x2)
3 Incubi (Tormentor Helm; Punisher x3)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 105 pts (Splinter Rifle x4; Dark Lance; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

1 Ravager @ 120 pts (Disentegrator x3)

1 Ravager @ 120 pts (Disentegrator x3)

1 Ravager @ 120 pts (Disentegrator x3)

5 Wyches @ 177 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad))
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Wyches @ 177 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad))
1 Raider (Dark Lance)


Total Roster Cost: 1497

now i know for sure that an ork army will be in the tournament but I dont know how to fight orks especially horde orks. I've played against it already and i have no idea what to do. I cant touch him in assault and if the ravagers die then I have no way to kill his mobs.

Thats not true. Use your wyches to tie up his power units, while the Archon works his way through the light stuff. Remember wyches get a 4+ invuln save in CC. Other than that just dodge him with your boats, and pick off any transports he might have, once all of his boyz are walking the game is an auto win.

warboss with nobs and a pain boy with 3 power klaws and the rest uge choppas in a truck

First thing is to take out his wheels. A couple of DL shots should do that easily. Next just pepper him with blasters and Spare DLs when they have nothing to shoot at. It will instant kill his nobs and generally piss him off. When he gets close enough let him fight it out with a unit of wyches for 3-4 turns (make sure when you charge you put the succubus in B2B with the boss so he can eat poisoned power weapons.)

90 choppa boys with 9 rokkit launchas

Well this is just a mob waiting to meet 9 plasma cannons. If he even gets into charge range with 1/4 of them intact I would be shocked.

4 deff koptas with twin link rokkit lauchas and a power klaw

hey thanks for the speedy reply!

I have been seeing a lot of lists taking the dark lance raider warriors, but isnt their a problem though? From my knowledge of the rules ( ive been on a roll of being wrong) you cant move and fire the lance because of it being heavy or is there a page number that states that it is different in transports? While I dont have as many dark lances I think I could defineatly see myself usesing more often in the future.

On wyches I understand dropping them to conserve costs but why pay for the blasters? If I'm not mistaken they would lose out on the wych weapon bonuses and the +1 A or is this not true?

On the Talos I agree wholeheartedly I was mainly using the 10 man warrior squad as a bait for my opponents and to send my talos after any who got close but it is so gimmicky that I would mainly roll 1s for his attacks and just generally not make his points back.

I have the Coffins it was just merely my bad on planning the list and wanting to try out the talos some more (I actually own about 5-6 ravagers and 7 raiders : P )

Yea I know a imperial guard player would have a fun day with his ork list but I dunno I've been so damn unlucky against him and hes been incredibly lucky. He can basically snipe with his rokkit lauchas and pass 5+ invulnerable saves like it was one of my shadow fields.

Thanks again for the reply!

I have been seeing a lot of lists taking the dark lance raider warriors, but isnt their a problem though? From my knowledge of the rules ( ive been on a roll of being wrong) you cant move and fire the lance because of it being heavy or is there a page number that states that it is different in transports? While I dont have as many dark lances I think I could defineatly see myself usesing more often in the future.

While they have to stand still to shoot this is not really a problem, since you measure shots from the crew from any point on the hull. I usually have 3-4 raiders hide behind one building and snipe tanks all game. If someone does get close to them, I would want to move them 24 inches anyway so losing the extra DL shot is not a huge issue.

On wyches I understand dropping them to conserve costs but why pay for the blasters? If I'm not mistaken they would lose out on the wych weapon bonuses and the +1 A or is this not true?

Yes you lose that attack but honestly the basic wyches are not going to kill anything anyways. With the blaster shots you can kill tanks or instant kill Nobs and the like before charging in. Once in combat you will find that combat will be determined by 1-2 wounds all caused by your succubus.

On the Talos I agree wholeheartedly I was mainly using the 10 man warrior squad as a bait for my opponents and to send my talos after any who got close but it is so gimmicky that I would mainly roll 1s for his attacks and just generally not make his points back.

In my opinion 1 talos is not going to do anything in combat with orks. It will lose combat, take fearless wounds, and die. For just a few more points you can add 3 plasma cannon shots a turn instead. I don't think you can even compare how much better that is.

I have the Coffins it was just merely my bad on planning the list and wanting to try out the talos some more (I actually own about 5-6 ravagers and 7 raiders : P )

Well if you ever want to get rid of some boats...

Yea I know a imperial guard player would have a fun day with his ork list but I dunno I've been so damn unlucky against him and hes been incredibly lucky. He can basically snipe with his rokkit lauchas and pass 5+ invulnerable saves like it was one of my shadow fields.

I have never been lucky with dice (hence why I play armies with paper armor), the best advice is to just have fun and don't worry about losses to lucky gits.

Clthomps wrote:

I have been seeing a lot of lists taking the dark lance raider warriors, but isnt their a problem though? From my knowledge of the rules ( ive been on a roll of being wrong) you cant move and fire the lance because of it being heavy or is there a page number that states that it is different in transports? While I dont have as many dark lances I think I could defineatly see myself usesing more often in the future.

While they have to stand still to shoot this is not really a problem, since you measure shots from the crew from any point on the hull. I usually have 3-4 raiders hide behind one building and snipe tanks all game. If someone does get close to them, I would want to move them 24 inches anyway so losing the extra DL shot is not a huge issue.

On wyches I understand dropping them to conserve costs but why pay for the blasters? If I'm not mistaken they would lose out on the wych weapon bonuses and the +1 A or is this not true?

Yes you lose that attack but honestly the basic wyches are not going to kill anything anyways. With the blaster shots you can kill tanks or instant kill Nobs and the like before charging in. Once in combat you will find that combat will be determined by 1-2 wounds all caused by your succubus.

On the Talos I agree wholeheartedly I was mainly using the 10 man warrior squad as a bait for my opponents and to send my talos after any who got close but it is so gimmicky that I would mainly roll 1s for his attacks and just generally not make his points back.

In my opinion 1 talos is not going to do anything in combat with orks. It will lose combat, take fearless wounds, and die. For just a few more points you can add 3 plasma cannon shots a turn instead. I don't think you can even compare how much better that is.

I have the Coffins it was just merely my bad on planning the list and wanting to try out the talos some more (I actually own about 5-6 ravagers and 7 raiders : P )

Well if you ever want to get rid of some boats...

Yea I know a imperial guard player would have a fun day with his ork list but I dunno I've been so damn unlucky against him and hes been incredibly lucky. He can basically snipe with his rokkit lauchas and pass 5+ invulnerable saves like it was one of my shadow fields.

I have never been lucky with dice (hence why I play armies with paper armor), the best advice is to just have fun and don't worry about losses to lucky gits.

yea I saw that in that article you linked me (it helped a lot btw thank you very much for linking it to me). See we've been playing a series of tournaments for a campaign basically starting from 500pts to apocalypse and I've won 2 of the tournies so far and the one I didnt go to everyone brought their anti DE list so I've been under some pressure to perform well so maybe thats why I've been doin so bad lately. Anyways thanks for the help and I'll definatly post the outcome!

Clthomps wrote:Hey welcome to Dakka!


I will be editing this post into a longish critique, so hang in there... while you are waiting take a look at Thors DE tactica. and listen to everything he has to say except when he lambastes warp beasts.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica

Your check's in the mail

I'll also say you can do a lot worse then listening to everything Clthomps said - but I saw one or two things I think are worth seeing a different perspective on and shall make notes of them below;

wychesx8 - succubus, agoniser, wych weapon, pg, raider 195pts
wyches x8- succubus, agoniser, wych weapon, pg, raider 195pts

Another good start, but I would run units of 6 instead, 8 is just a waste of points in 1500

Actually just calling this one out for how smart it is (he did note later you should have Blasters thank gawd) but he was very smart in his size conideration of 6 for Wyches of which I am more and more accepting as the true optimal number. The basic theory is an awareness of when you have problems with a squad - and that's 25% dead (morale check or run away) and under 50% original strength (no ability to regroup and a few other negative penalties from various armies special effects).

A squad number of 6 is in a sweet spot for these numbers because their 25% check comes if they lose 3+ models - that's the exact same number that a squad of 10 has to check at.
They go to the under 50% effect after they have lost 4 models - a number that you have to take 9+ members of the squad to do better than.
Both of those numbers are also much better then the 2 and 3 that a squad of 5 has. Plus, as discussed, Wyches are really about the Agoniser (and blasters) when it comes to killing.

raider squad x6- SC, blaster, raider 118pts
raider squad x6- sc, blaster, raider 118pts
raider squad x5- sc, blaster, raider 110pts

These are O.K but you need to drop the extra warriors, they are just bloat. If you have extra DL I would equip them instead of the SC, since the meta game has shifted to heavy mech and MC. The cannons just can't compete.

I disagree with Clthomps about gunboats and do believe the mobility of the gunboat build is still very viable. I don't disagree that DL Raider squads are good, they're just different. The question really becomes based on your attitude towards target saturation and what range you want to fight your opponent at, and how much you like moving your Raiders around the map. The two different types of Raiders call for different strategies for the army, but both armies can be successful.

With your army as it currently is I would want to drop the Talos and lower the Wyche squads to 6 so as to afford an all lance Ravager, mech up your DL squad as Clthomps suggested and some more blasters. Your list would then be very similar to what I run at 1500 and it is a list that can deal with many different varieties of army.

now i know for sure that an ork army will be in the tournament but I dont know how to fight orks especially horde orks. I've played against it already and i have no idea what to do. I cant touch him in assault and if the ravagers die then I have no way to kill his mobs.

Thats not true. Use your wyches to tie up his power units, while the Archon works his way through the light stuff. Remember wyches get a 4+ invuln save in CC. Other than that just dodge him with your boats, and pick off any transports he might have, once all of his boyz are walking the game is an auto win.

Dealing with Orks is about using Wyches to lock down power units, using lances to pop transports, and using mobility to avoid mobs. You don't want Wyches trying to fight a boyz mob (and though I don't think Clthomps suggested this quite how I'm reading it) you also don't want to engage a mob with your Archon without softening it up first. Charging a 30 boyz mob alone = death for Wyches or Incubi. But charging a mob that just ate 6 Dissie blasts and a salvo of gunboat fire? That's a different story.

The basic concept for DE vs. Orks is to kill Lootas with a wave of Dissie fire and to kill transports with a wave of Lance fire. Your goal is to be fighting a bunch of footsloggin boyz who you'll be infinitely faster then so they can never catch you.

4 deff koptas with twin link rokkit lauchas and a power klaw

If these are giving you trouble just direct 5-6 DL in there direction and they will go away. If not ignore them.

I actually consider the Deffkoptas to be the scariest thing Orks can do versus DE after Lootas (accursed, accursed Lootas...). They are fast, mobile, are able to rip open a Raider very easily, and have the ability to do so at both a decent range or in assault. My optimal solutions are, as Clthomps noted, to pop them with some Lances or my other method is to hit them with a squad of Wyches (basically depending on what else you're fighting, as you may need the lances elsewhere, but you can't ignore deffkoptas in my opinion.

now i dont want to tailor my list to beat it but I highly doubt I could in the first place but I know that this army will either anhilate me or force a close draw (in his favor)

The list I posted will take on every army fairly well, the only problems you might encounter are with mech vet since 10 units with armor 12 is really tough for DE to crack.

I agree here. Orks are actually a pretty good matchup for us as few Ork players field them with the shooting range they need to catch the Raiders - so we can usually dance on the edges of the green tide till they're more of a green puddle.

On wyches I understand dropping them to conserve costs but why pay for the blasters? If I'm not mistaken they would lose out on the wych weapon bonuses and the +1 A or is this not true?

Clthomps is right about blasters. You are correct that they lose out on the additional attack the splinter pistol/CCW combo grants them. CLthomps is correct in noting it doesn't matter because the Blaster is better anyway. They do not lose out on Wych Weapons because Wych Weapons are a piece of wargear, not an actual weapon, so they still have all effects from that.

hey thanks guys well I finally got done with the tournament won two out of three games. Ironically I didn't play against the ork list but I lost to a imp guard list with mass infantry and tanks, I did well but it was a customized mission so like it had both KPs and objectives so I kinda fought an uphill battle. The rest of my games were against space marines which are almost easily my best match up other than the space marine codex wackyness.

What problems did you have with the IG?

I find mech vets to be a boring pain in the ass. Its refreshing to hear of someone using infantry.

Clthomps wrote:What problems did you have with the IG?

I find mech vets to be a boring pain in the ass. Its refreshing to hear of someone using infantry.

it wasnt more of problems with the list but problems with the player and mission like I could have gotten a draw but he had unknown to him placed his basilisk on top of a marker and i flew my only troop choice on that side to a different area and I couldnt kill enough guard to out kp him even though I had him down to three squads (not platoons). But it was fine my dark lances just hate me I need to perform some kind of ritual to prevent them from rolling ones!