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Hive Tyrant- Heavy Venom Cannon, Leech Essence, Paroxysm

Hive Tyrant- Heavy Venom Cannon, Leech Essence, Paroxysm

Troop
10xTermagaunts

10xTermagaunts

Tervigon- Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Cluster Spines

Tervigon- Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Cluster Spines

Elite
3xHive Guard

3xHive Guard

3xHive Guard

Heavy Support
Carnifex- Bio-Plasma, Heavy Venom Cannon, Frag Spines

Carnifex- Bio-Plasma, Heavy Venom Cannon, Frag Spines

I have playtested in several games and this is the best list I can come up with. As an IG player it is taking me longer then expected to understand the strengths of nids, but I am starting to see a few of them.

One of the strengths of Nids is actually their shooting! I know but unlike a vehicle you cannot shake the hive guard meaning that unless you kill the unit it will be able to fight back. The same applies to the carnifex and hive tyrant which is why those units have heavy venom cannons. I dont care about the -1, if it can prevent a tank from shooting at me it has done its job.

The plan is to glance(maybe destroy) enough vehicles so that the hive tyrant and the carnifexes can get close enough to start taking out units in cc. The hive guard will have a 4+ save from the gaunts providing cover, the hive tyrant will have a 4+ save from feel no pain from the tervigon, the carnifex will have a 4+ cover save with the tervigon and hive tyrant providing cover. Considering these units already have a toughness of 6 and several wounds I will be able to maintain my fire power compared to vehicles that will be at a minimum glanced.

This list should be able to win the glance game against mech armies long enough for the carnifexes and hive tyrant to get close enough to where they can do some serious damage in cc. The list can also do super gaunts as the 2 tervigons will be pumping out termagaunts and giving them counter-attack, posion, and furious charge.

What do you guys think?

I think that's pretty good.
I'm still feeling my way around the codex at this point, so I'm far from an expert.

Looking at what you've got lined up for assaulting, I think you may be unpleasantly surprised by an Ork player with hidden Nob Klaws.

In that same line of thought, someone with a list centered on assaulting you, could cause some mayhem.

I think you've got the light transport spam lists figured out pretty well, and other shooty vehicle lists will be pretty 'stunned' (he ha ha) as well.

The thing to do with a list this refined, (imo of course) is to take it to the table, and find out what you like in it, and what you more or less of.

In my test games with this codex, I felt like I had too many points invested in small units of powerful creatures. I tried to spread the points more, through warriors and genestealers, and less on Tyrants and Fexi. Ymmv.

Praise to the great devourer!

Good luck...

I think the gaunt squads are kind of low. They will die pretty quickly.

I would swap out one squad of hive gaurd for some zoans in a spore, encase you encounter armor 14.

Iboshi2 wrote:I think that's pretty good.
I'm still feeling my way around the codex at this point, so I'm far from an expert.

Looking at what you've got lined up for assaulting, I think you may be unpleasantly surprised by an Ork player with hidden Nob Klaws.

In that same line of thought, someone with a list centered on assaulting you, could cause some mayhem.

I think you've got the light transport spam lists figured out pretty well, and other shooty vehicle lists will be pretty 'stunned' (he ha ha) as well.

The thing to do with a list this refined, (imo of course) is to take it to the table, and find out what you like in it, and what you more or less of.

In my test games with this codex, I felt like I had too many points invested in small units of powerful creatures. I tried to spread the points more, through warriors and genestealers, and less on Tyrants and Fexi. Ymmv.

Praise to the great devourer!

Good luck...

The funny thing about anti-infantry in this list is that I rely on the gaunts! Str 4 ap 5 shooting can take out horde units, and in cc counter-attack and posion or furious charge and poison they can hit pretty hard. I also forgot to mention that the tervigons replace their salvos for cluster spines, which gives me two str 5 large templates that can be used aswell. This list has several blast templates and alot of str 4 ap 5 shots that it can handle hordes.

I think this army will do pretty well against rhino rush marines. Unfortunately thats about it.

Horde orks would probably just overwhelm you, as would multi raider armies.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Horde orks would probably just overwhelm you, as would multi raider armies.

It will be an up hill battle against those list but I have some things that I can use to help me win. Against orks my shooting which has several blast templates should be able to help thin out their numbers, and in cc the carnifex str 9 and the tyrants boneswords can instant kill stuff, I just have to play well to win.

CKO wrote:The funny thing about anti-infantry in this list is that I rely on the gaunts! Str 4 ap 5 shooting can take out horde units, and in cc counter-attack and posion or furious charge and poison they can hit pretty hard. I also forgot to mention that the tervigons replace their salvos for cluster spines, which gives me two str 5 large templates that can be used aswell. This list has several blast templates and alot of str 4 ap 5 shots that it can handle hordes.

40 Gaunts and 2 Large Blasts is not going to stop its points worth of Orks at all. That might stop 300 points of orks. Unfortunetly, you've got about 450-500 points doing that.

I agree with the other posters who added comments to your list.

I admit I have not seen an ork horde on the table. What does a ork horde list usually look like?

Generally, from my experience, ork hordes have a couple 30 boy mobz with hidden powerfists. This really hurt your nids, so you need critters that hit them first and hit them hard. Therefore, I will be running a single large brood of genestealers with a broodlord in every game I play. The high initiative (as long as you don't try to assault through cover) ensures that you always strike first, and rending helps cut through heavier-armored mobz like hard boyz. Of course, this is just my preference (I'm trying to stay off the tervigon bandwagon) and your mileage may vary.

All I do know that in my last game against orks, my genestealer brood of 20 stealers + broodlord killed a 30-boyz squad, a burna/scorcha mob, and 2 killa kans before finally going down to a charge from mega-nobz.

Also, 3 squads of 3 hive gaurd seems a bit excessive. Why not mix it up and put some zoeys in there for the really big tanks? Trust me, battlewagons with deffrollas are nasty, and you don't want to rely on CC units to take it down. You'll want to put it down outside of its squishing range. Of course, your venom cannons might do that, but I'm just saying. It never hurts to have extra synapse either.

I think your army suffers from over optimization. Its completely kitted out to butcher rhino rush marines to the exclusion of both heavy armor and horde. Drop 2 squads of hive guard and a tyrant. add in a squad of zoanthropes and add in either some gargoyloes, stealers, or trygon.

In addition the fexs you have are absolute poop. I recommend going tyrannofex for shooting or run something like this.
Devourers, crushing claws, bio plasma in a spod.

I wouldn't call it over-optimization, I would just say that it is easy to get stuck in the old way of list building, where you find units that do good and take multiples of it. You need a variety of units to have an effective force in this new codex, in my opinion.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:I wouldn't call it over-optimization, I would just say that it is easy to get stuck in the old way of list building, where you find units that do good and take multiples of it. You need a variety of units to have an effective force in this new codex, in my opinion.

I agree with this.

I also use a big squad of stealers with a broodlord when faced with orks.

How was the performance of Vemoncannon in the field? with mathhammer it can only hit on about 50% each shot, is four of them can do some really hurt to the mech army? If that's ture I may consider adding Harpy in my list.

Hi CKO,

I have a few questions. How do you do in kill point missions?

How do you deal with strong assaulting units? For example, terminators in land raiders. They can tank shock through your gants and get a charge on your monstrous creatures.

Is your shooting reliable to stop a land raider?

Thanks

HVC's are pretty worthless even vs rhinos.

They have about a 50% chance to hit.

They have a 67% chance to pen.

They have a 33% chance to destroy or immobilize a rhino.

An 11% chance per shot to stop a rhino? Without cover?

Hive guard and tfex's are where it's at. Zoans work, but it's nice to have death leaper to deal with hood.

A true Ork Horde list looks something like this.

HQ:
Ghazzy

KFF Mech

Troops:
30x Slugga Boyz
1 Nob w/PK

30x Slugga Boyz
1 Nob w/PK

30x Slugga Boyz
1 Nob w/PK

30x Slugga Boyz
1 Nob w/PK

30x Slugga Boyz
1 Nob w/PK

30x Slugga Boyz
1 Nob w/PK

Elite:
4x Mega Nobz

Total:
1760

the hive tyrant will have a 4+ save from feel no pain from the tervigon, the carnifex will have a 4+ cover save with the tervigon and hive tyrant providing cover.

FnP won't help the Tyrant as 90% of what will be firing at him will ignore FnP. The Tervigon will be a higher priority target than the Carnifex, kill those 2 things and you'll have no scoring units left (after the 2 x 3d6 S3 hits on all your gant units).

So I disagree with this idea.

I also don't like the Heavy Venom Cannon what is it good for? No good against Vehicles as not enough shots or accuracy, AP4 means it is no good against heavy Infantry. So again I ask what is it good against swap them out for Stranglethorne Cannons to give you some horde control.

I like the 3 x 3 Hive guard great for dealing with Mech. But you have very little to worry serious armour until the shooty Fexes make combat. I'd probabaly just take them as standard rather than giving them guns so they can run into combat as soon as possible.

You have no where near enough troops for 1750 points. small gaunt broods are paper light particularly if you take out the Tervigons and cause 3d6 S3 hits on them. And I can concentrate my fire on them early on knowing your Tyrants and Carnifex are moving at just 6" a turn whilst firing totally ineffective firerpower...

Like most people on here I concur you'll do well against Mech, but even then I doubt you'd do too well against the contents, unless of course it is a score upgrade vehicle list.

A Landraider would just cruise straight up to you and unload Hammernator death into your face. In fact I'd fancy Hammernators to just be able to walk across the board relatively un harmed and hit you in the face as you have nothing to worry them at range or in CC.

You've spent ALOT of points in the Tyrants and Carnifexes with no way of delivering them instead you seem to have kitted them out for totally ineffective fire support. You've spent a total of 810 points on 4 Heavy Venom Cannon shots??!?!? You could have got 3 Tyrannofexes for 6 S10 shots for less than that and Tyrannofexes are massively points inefficient.

I'd drop at least one Tyrant, spore up the Carnifexes and strip down their biomorphs and give the Tyrant Hive Commander instead of the HVC. Upgrade him to wings so the enemy sees him as more of a threat than you Tervigons and swap out a Hive Guard unit for a squad of Zoanthropes in a spore to take out Land Raiders and the like or don't take the spore and hide them behind your Tervigons to act as a deterent to a LR Hammernator charge.

imweasel wrote:HVC's are pretty worthless even vs rhinos.

They have about a 50% chance to hit.

The rupture cannon has a 50% chance to hit.

imweasel wrote:They have a 67% chance to pen.

is that not good.

imweasel wrote:They have a 33% chance to destroy or immobilize a rhino.

An 11% chance per shot to stop a rhino? Without cover?

Why does it have to be a rhino? It can be a razorback with lascannons or it can be a vendetta, the point is this your opponent has a total of 6 fast attack choices and heavy support choices. I have enough units to alter my opponents shooting phase, if my 4 venom cannons can keep 2 vendettas from shooting they have done their job.

imweasel wrote:Hive guard and tfex's are where it's at. Zoans work, but it's nice to have death leaper to deal with hood.

The t-fex is 265 for two bs 3 str 10 shots, its not worth that, as an anti-infantry unit it is great. No list is perfect but I think this list is very good against the current metagame you can make some changes to adjust to your local metagame. If there is alot of raiders swap out a hive guard for zoanthroapes, if you have alot of hordes swap out venom cannons for some stranglethorns.

CKO wrote: Why does it have to be a rhino? It can be a razorback with lascannons or it can be a vendetta, the point is this your opponent has a total of 6 fast attack choices and heavy support choices. I have enough units to alter my opponents shooting phase, if my 4 venom cannons can keep 2 vendettas from shooting they have done their job.

Because that's the best percentages you can get? They don't get any better with better armor. Firing ALL of your long range anti-tank gives you less than a 50% chance of stopping a very common vehicle you are going to see on the field? I just don't see hvc even outperforming the hive guard, which is a very solid choice in your list or any nid list for that matter.

Now if the hvc had two shots like the rupture cannon, this would be a different story.

CKO wrote:The t-fex is 265 for two bs 3 str 10 shots, its not worth that, as an anti-infantry unit it is great. No list is perfect but I think this list is very good against the current metagame you can make some changes to adjust to your local metagame. If there is alot of raiders swap out a hive guard for zoanthroapes, if you have alot of hordes swap out venom cannons for some stranglethorns.

Is the carny or the tyrant that much cheaper than the tfex? You get 2 less wounds, one less shot and have a 3+ armor save instead of a 2+. That's HUGE.

Not to mention the fact that you can possibly fire 3 weapons on the tfex. Rupture cannon, 2+ armor, 6 wounds, 18" str5 large blast and a template weapon that wounds on a 2+. I don't think that's a bad price to pay for 265pts at all.

imweasel wrote:Now if the hvc had two shots like the rupture cannon, this would be a different story.

The heavy venom cannon is str 9 while the rupture cannon is str 10, both have a 50% chance of hitting but the cannon has 2 shots and is more likely to hit, but the venom cannon is a template and has a better chance of hitting larger vehicles such as vendettas and land raiders. Is that 1 extra str worth 60 points?

imweasel wrote:Is the carny or the tyrant that much cheaper than the tfex? You get 2 less wounds, one less shot and have a 3+ armor save instead of a 2+. That's HUGE.

If I gave the tyrant 95 points of upgrades it will be more of a factor then 2 bs 3 str 10 shots.

imweasel wrote:Not to mention the fact that you can possibly fire 3 weapons on the tfex. Rupture cannon, 2+ armor, 6 wounds, 18" str5 large blast and a template weapon that wounds on a 2+. I don't think that's a bad price to pay for 265pts at all.

Thats why I said it is a good anti-infantry unit.

heavy VC is surely bad than the Tyrannofex S10 fire ,when I said it's a 50% hit ,it's already including the consideration that it's a blast, on a landraider it will have a slightly better performance of hit,but that's an AV14 we are talking about ,and everyone knows what's the difference between S10 and S9 on AV14, so this situation only makes the heavy VC even worse, not to mention the -1 to damage roll.

For anti tank the Tyrannofex is a clear winner ,it's just in some list you want to field a Walking Tyrant and dont have enough point for Tyrannofex,then a VC maybe the better shooting weapon compare to other options ,it at least is a long range vehicle stopping fire.

What Im thinking is a mobile list with lots fly units, unit like Tyrannofex can not be taken ,the army will finally deal the vehicles in turn 2 or 3 with CC,but before that some Heavy Vemoncannon fire from winged tyrant or a Harpy could save lots models or protect the tyrant from shot to death.

An interesting situation is that when I use some gargoyles to block exits of a transport ,the -1 damage roll on Vemoncannon really is an advantage that will not trigger exploison ,which could takes away the whole gargoyles brood.

CKO wrote:The heavy venom cannon is str 9 while the rupture cannon is str 10, both have a 50% chance of hitting but the cannon has 2 shots and is more likely to hit, but the venom cannon is a template and has a better chance of hitting larger vehicles such as vendettas and land raiders. Is that 1 extra str worth 60 points?

With more weapons? With a 2+ save? With 6 wounds? You seem to like to miss all the other 'extras' while talking about something...

CKO wrote:If I gave the tyrant 95 points of upgrades it will be more of a factor then 2 bs 3 str 10 shots.

But it's more than 2 bs3 str10 shots, isn't it? The tyrant will be a solid choice, but kitting it out for anti-tank? I suppose. I personally would prefer alpha warriors or tervigons in that slot. Swarm lord doesn't suck either, but he is pricey as well.

But carnie's? Really?

CKO wrote:Thats why I said it is a good anti-infantry unit.

It excels at BOTH. Duality in an expensive unit cannot be downplayed.

I feel like in objective matches, you lack staying power. Tervigons can run out, and when they do, you don't have much to hold down the fort really. Personally, I would choose to go for one Tervigon, or at least add more troops in exchange for one of those Tyrants, if only because of the lack of anti-horde going on here.

I think this list will have some major issues with AV14 and objective missions, also it seems you have a lot of "easy" kill points that can be picked off by a squad or two while the rest of the army hides denying you the chance to catch up KP wise. I do like the tyrants but not the venom cannons. Go with the tyrannofex if you are insistent on that sort of fire power, also Zoanthropes are your only viable option against AV 14.