Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This list is the result of several games with this having the most potential to win in most scenarios.
I may be wrong. We'll see.

1500 points

Tyrant - Wings - Hive Commander (to deepstrike)

Warriors X5 Deathspitters (reserved)
Warriors X5 Deathspitters (reserved)
Warriors X5 Rending - Scythes - Adrenal (to outflank as per Hive Commander rule)
Genestealers X10 - Toxin Sacs (outflanking)
Genestealers X10 - Toxin Sacs (outflanking)
Genestealers X10 - Toxin Sacs (outflanking)

Trygon - Adrenal (to deepstrike)

To bump up to 2K add:-

Trygon - Adrenal (to deepstrike)

Carnifex - Drop Spore (to deepstrike)

Alpha Warrior - Adrenal (to be added to outflanking unit)

The basic idea behind the army is that the first go is totally useless for the opponent.
The entire army deepstrikes at the heart of where it's needed. Hence the Hive Commander to add +1 to the reserves. Nothing will get shot in the first go.
Loads of stuff to deal with when it appears that will all be on top of you.
All of which will mash something up if you don't deal with it!
Also, the majority of the army doesn't require 'Synapse' or if it does will charge at the closest thing to fight it... which is what I want it to do!

C&C welcome!
Cheers.

You have to remember that you cant assault on the turn you deepstrike, have practically no shooting to speak of and no ranged anti-tank what-so-ever. This means that on the turn you start come in the enemy will get a free turn of blasting you before you can do anything. Then if you opponents are in transports they will get two free turns of blasting you as you try and hack your way through their vehicles. To make a list like this work you need zoanthropes in spores to crack the tanks and give you something to do when you come onto the table.

Also

Wings dont give tyrants the ability to DS

Anything with rending should have toxin sacs as standard and warriors are better off with boneswords even then.

Warriors are too slow to risk outflanking. They will have to trek accross the battlefield and will probably do little.

A trygon means that if you get bad reserve rolls your entire battle plan is screwed.

Everything appart from the tyrant and the trygon has poor armour and will probably get shot to pieces on the turn it comes in.

Honestly I dont think this is a very good list.

I don't think this list is horrible but it does lack some serious anti armor. Load some Zoanthropes into spores, I like the idea of all outflanking stealers but I think the army needs some ground and pound to be viable.

Klueless wrote:This list is the result of several games with this having the most potential to win in most scenarios.
I may be wrong. We'll see.

1500 points

Tyrant - Wings - Hive Commander (to deepstrike)

Warriors X5 Deathspitters (reserved)
Warriors X5 Deathspitters (reserved)
Warriors X5 Rending - Scythes (to outflank as per Hive Commander rule)
Genestealers X10 - Toxin Sacs (outflanking)
Genestealers X10 - Toxin Sacs (outflanking)
Genestealers X10 - Toxin Sacs (outflanking)

Trygon - Adrenal (to deepstrike)

To bump up to 2K add:-

Trygon - Adrenal (to deepstrike)

Carnifex - Drop Spore (to deepstrike)

Alpha Warrior - Adrenal (to be added to outflanking unit)

The basic idea behind the army is that the first go is totally useless for the opponent.
The entire army deepstrikes at the heart of where it's needed. Hence the Hive Commander to add +1 to the reserves. Nothing will get shot in the first go.
Loads of stuff to deal with when it appears that will all be on top of you.
All of which will mash something up if you don't deal with it!
Also, the majority of the army doesn't require 'Synapse' or if it does will charge at the closest thing to fight it... which is what I want it to do!

C&C welcome!
Cheers.

Similar list wo what I want to run.

Same comments as the above tho.
- Maybe switch the Hive tyrant for a Alpha Warrior
- Spod up the warriors

Regwon wrote:You have to remember that you cant assault on the turn you deepstrike, have practically no shooting to speak of and no ranged anti-tank what-so-ever. This means that on the turn you start come in the enemy will get a free turn of blasting you before you can do anything. Then if you opponents are in transports they will get two free turns of blasting you as you try and hack your way through their vehicles. To make a list like this work you need zoanthropes in spores to crack the tanks and give you something to do when you come onto the table.

Also

Wings dont give tyrants the ability to DS

Anything with rending should have toxin sacs as standard and warriors are better off with boneswords even then.

Warriors are too slow to risk outflanking. They will have to trek accross the battlefield and will probably do little.

A trygon means that if you get bad reserve rolls your entire battle plan is screwed.

Everything appart from the tyrant and the trygon has poor armour and will probably get shot to pieces on the turn it comes in.

Honestly I dont think this is a very good list.

Well thanks for your input.
Point #1 - Tyrants with wings become jump infantry. Jump infantry can Deepstrike.
Point #2 - Zoanthropes have not really worked that well for me in the last X3 games I have played.

Granted it may not be the best list. Lacking in tank busting shooting etc. However, I do think the whole codex lacks in ranged tank killing units. Most of the guns I've looked at are S5, which isn't even hurting a Chimera's front armour! The other guns (the obvious tank killers) seem to have totally flopped in the games I've used them too, BS3 seems a bit weak. Perhaps I'm just unlucky. Combat units seem to be the way forward.
The age old Tyrand tactic of appear, charge & destroy.

This list is just an attempt to throw a load of stuff at the enemy & take out what I can.
I think it's got just as good a chance as any other.
Cheers.

I'd put the non-outflanking Warriors in spores too as otherwise they'll be walking on from your edge miles away from the fight.

With Trygons I'd take 2 or none, one just says shoot me in the face please too much. Though in this list it could work with the Tyrant offering the other threat. I'd be tempted to give the Tyrant some sort of gun for that turn you arrive.

I'd also concur with others that you'll really struggle against mech particularly fast mech who'll just run away from you whilst blasting and laughing (yes I'm thinking Eldar). Hive Guard are great for this so I'd probably try to fin a way for at least one squad of them in the list if you don't rate the Zoanthropes.

Wings dont give tyrants the ability to DS

Point #1 - Tyrants with wings become jump infantry. Jump infantry can Deepstrike.

You're actually both wrong though Klueless is nearer. Wings make you move like Jump Infantry not become jump infantry. Fortunately DS is a type of moving as detailed in the BRB page 95. Essentially move like jump infantry means you use all the rules for jump infantry under the header movement (not too difficult to understand is it). The last sentence of that section says "All jump infantry units may enter the battle by deep strike"...

So... Did I get it wrong? Can a winged Tyrant DS?
I'm really confused now!
I wrote this list to kinda deal with mech armies to be honest. I played a game vs a mech guard list last night & just couldn't do anything to crack the tanks.... Yet again my Zoanthropes failed to wreck any tanks. The only punch I seemed to have was my MC's, which is kinda why I wrote this list..... Maybe it does suck... I'm not sure. All I know is that if your running a swarm army against tanks you aren't doing jack the whole game apart from being melted.
I'm quite happy with the troop section & as most of them have rends at least they can damage a tank. As for the HQ & Heavy. Maybe if I loose a troop choice I can add some more punch.
Perhaps I'm just getting bad luck with the Zoanthropes.

Yes a Winged Tyrant can deep strike.

I don't see how your Zoanthropes are failing they penetrate anything on at worst a 3+ and then destroy on a 4+. They have the best AT weapon in the game it is actually better than half distance melta against Av14 (58% chance to penetrate versus 67%)! To me that seems more like bad luck than anything, the only thing that should be shutting down your Zoanthropes is psychic hoods. They should make mince meat out of armour particularly IG tank armies.

Granted MCs will also wreck tanks but getting them there can be the issue the Flyrant should be fine though. This army should do well against static tank armies with everything attacking in CC but against fast tank armies where you're only hitting on 6s if you can even make contact and you're out of luck whilst they laugh and shoot at you.

I guess it's just bad luck then. In the 3 games I've played the Zoanthropes have fluffed every time. I have immobilized a vindicator & taken off X2 weapons on X2 Demolishers.... Weak. It's the rolls to hit that seem to mess me up. 4+ after the psychic test... Booo.
I'll see how the list works.

It's the rolls to hit that seem to mess me up. 4+ after the psychic test... Booo.

They are BS4 now so it is 3+ to hit maybe that is where you've been going wrong?

D'OH!

Dude have you thought of a lictor if your deep striking the tyrant? Reason would be so the tyrant doesn't scatter as anything which deep strikes within 6" of a lictor doesn't scatter. The thing I don't like about the tyrant is he's on his tod. Now I know you used to use him as bait or to sucker me in, but with it costing 250 points ish thats a lot of points to be using just for bait. So I'd give him some gargoyles. Two units of 10 would only set you back 120 points

Though, personaly, after our game last night I'd say drop the hive tyrant all together. It doesn't have much place in the list as a unit and only serves to give outflanking, which your only benefiting from one troop choice.

I mostly found impressive the warrior units with tyranid primes buffing them. Very annoying.

I'd stick two trygons in at 1,500 points as the one last night got took down pretty easily.

And Flingit is right bud, Zoans are BS4 so you hit on 3's not on 4's like you did last night! lol. I'm glad Flingit pointed that out to me just as well as I was seriously having thoughts about them from last nights game.

Yeah 3+ should make a huge difference! I know statistically it is only one extra hit per 6 shots (or 2 turns of shooting) but with 3s you get much less variance than 4s where you'll more often miss with all 3 with hitting on 3s you'll normally hit at least one even if you roll bad. But you should more often than not get 2 hits.

1/2^3 = 1 in 8 times you'll totally miss

1/3^3 = 1 in 27 times you'll totally miss!!!

Where as all 3 hitting:

1/2^3 = 1 in 8 again

2/3^3 = 8 in 27 or just under 1 in 3

That is a huge difference!

I think the plan is to use the Tyrant as the 2nd Trygon and vise versa I presume? So the enemy has the choice to take out the Tyrant and let the Trygon run rampant or take out the Trygon and let the Tyrant have its fun. It is duel threat but split between 2 different MCs rather than 2 the same? Is that right?

I think the DS winged hive tyrant question should be put into FAQ, I can not say he can do that or he can not now.

I think the DS winged hive tyrant question should be put into FAQ, I can not say he can do that or he can not now.

I think RaI is pretty obvious that you can DS and RAW is conclusive on this too. Unless they FAQ the other way you can certainly DS with a Flyrant as the rules stand.

I have no problem to believe that a winged tyrant or a harpy is capable of flying into battle from sky , hope that's GW's intention too.

Why does it need a FAQ for? The rules are very crystal clear and do not need a FAQ at all.

P84 Tyranid codex says models with wings are treated as jump infantry.

P52 of the rule book says all jump infantry can enter deep strike.

Why do you need a FAQ so see if a winged tyrand can deep strike for? Its in the rule book. Am I missing something?

Mercer -Gotta point out dude that your 'cover save' on the Chimera you pulled twice shouldn't have happened. The rule says that if your not sure if the tank is 50% covered or not then you get a 5+ cover save. The first time you claimed it I had two warriors beside it, but could clearly see 75% of it. The next time you had X2 Guardsmen beside it & I could clearly see about 95% of it. Not that it would have made much difference in the end. Might have helped if I'd have noticed the BS4 on the Zoanthropes though! D'oh!

Anyone know if spore mines count as kill points? Not sure myself.

Anyone know if spore mines count as kill points? Not sure myself.

Not anymore they fixed that in the codex.

Klueless wrote:Mercer -Gotta point out dude that your 'cover save' on the Chimera you pulled twice shouldn't have happened. The rule says that if your not sure if the tank is 50% covered or not then you get a 5+ cover save. The first time you claimed it I had two warriors beside it, but could clearly see 75% of it. The next time you had X2 Guardsmen beside it & I could clearly see about 95% of it. Not that it would have made much difference in the end. Might have helped if I'd have noticed the BS4 on the Zoanthropes though! D'oh!

Anyone know if spore mines count as kill points? Not sure myself.

Yeah I read the rule book when I got home. It says that if 50% is covered you get 4+ cover save. It says if you cannot decided whether 50% is cover then -1 to the save. Which is what I was saying. 50% wasn't covered, about 25% was, the book says if you cannot decide it 50% then -1 cover save. I took a 5+ cover save the first time from the warriors, which was right.

Yeah would have helped! lol. Every day is a school day. I'm glad I found that out

Read it again & look at the picture next to it.