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HQ
Tyranid Prime with boneswords goes in hive guard.

elite
3 hive guard

3 hive guard

death leaper

troops
30 Termigaunts

pimped out Tervigon

30 Termigaunts

pimped out Tervigon


heavy
tyranofex w rupture cannon

tyranofex w rupture cannon

stats
anti horde: 2 x 30 supergaunts (assault), 2x tyranofex flamers.
anti terminator: 2x 30 super gaunts (assault),
anti nob: 2x 3 hive guard (12 strength 8 shots), 2x tyrano fex (4 strength 10 shots)
anti landraider/battlewagon: 2x Tryanofex (4 strength 10 shots + 4x strength 6 + 2d6 penetration in assault), 2x tervigon 4 strength 6 attacks on charge + 2d6 penetration)
long range transport kill: 2x 3 hive guard (12 strength 8 shots), 2x Tyranofex (4 strength 10 shots)
scoring units: 6+ 2x30 termagants, 2 tervigons and each tervigon gets at least 3d6 termagaunts for 2 more scoring units for 6+

Choice Explainations:
Tyranid Prime with boneswords. Cheap HQ he is decent combat and makes your Hiveguard take more wounds to kill and makes it so your hiveguard don't get stuck in combat.

2x3 Hiveguard: Each unit gets 6 Strength 8 shots at 24 inches which has a good shot at taking out a transport or at least stunning it.

Deathleaper: main reason to take him is he can give a psyker -d3 leadership so it is easier to get off your Catalyst through their psychic hoods and so the psyker isn't as effective in getting off certain nasty powers like Jaws of the Warp Wolf. He can pop up anywhere so can be used to pick of lone characters or to contest a corner. Has been somewhat lackluster when opponent does not have a psyker.

2x30 Termagaunts: you are required to take a brood to take a troops Tervigon. 30 might actually be too many as I found my deployment zone pretty cramped and they get hurt by templates. Maybe 2x20 is a better numaber. Although a large number is really good for overwelming terminators and marines.

pimped Tervigon: These guys get the works Adrenal Glands for furious charge, toxin sacs for poison, catalyst for giving out feels no pain (this can go to gaunts or it can go to hive guard or the terivgon depending on what type of fire power the opponent has), regeneration for staying alive cause these guys are scoring and if they hide behind hive guard they get a cover save and can get feels no pain. Crushing Claws probably can get cut. Really tough to kill execpt to Jaws and concentrated fire.

2 Tryanofex keep the opponents threatening vehicles shaken and hopefully kill them. Vendettas or Las cannon Predators are bad news the Tyranofex surpresses them just like the old Gunfex did. T-fex falls a bit short of the old gunfex because it costs more and lacks the barb strangler for anti horde or insta killing nob duty. Very expensive but no other way to keep Vendettas or predators from barbequing your Tervigons otherwise. Initiative really hurts vs

Considering Trying
Warriors - people been saying to try them but they are pretty pricey to get insta killed by strength 8 and the tervigon farm is very nice in most cases except against Mech Space Wolves. What armament should they get? I been seeing Deathspitters and strangler this might be decent for antihorde.

Biovores - need some more anti horde other then charging stuff with lots of gaunts since no longer have old gun fexes with barb stranglers.

Not included and Why

Hive Tyrant - so expensive to get that +1 reserves roll and Guard make him even more so. His old armament is gimped. The Heavy Venom Cannon is a bad worse then bs 3 las cannon with -1 to the damage table. MC Devourers don't seem worth it because you have to give up talons or bonesword which make you good in CC. Psyker powers are good like making enemy unit ws1 to assault them with super gaunts but range 12 so likely in Librarian hood range. Tried him and he did very little and so expensive for +1 rserves.

Swarmloard - haven't actually tried him but he seems really expensive. I seen him used and he can be good if there is a city scape to give him cover.

Zoanthropes - Tried them and not very effective between Mystics, Hoods, Runic Weapons and the fact that they often get dead after you trade them for a transport. Good trade vs a Land Raider bad trade vs cheap transports.

elite stealers - don't seem worth it next to Hive Guard, Deathleaper and then Zoanthropes.

Hormagaunts - haven't tried them but they get no bonus from Tervigons and are more expensive then termagaunts.

Genestealers - these need to make up their points in one round when they come in vs outflank because they probably will get shot after that. No flesh hooks means you need to run a bigger squad since you might lose some before swinging assaulting things in cover so drives cost up.

Warriors - people are saying to try these but they are expensive get insta killed by strength 8, maybe someone has had good experiences?

Gargoyles - might be worth trying because they are fast but are not scoring and don't get benefit from Tervigons.

Raveners - tried them but not very good the strength 8 insta kills hurt and they might not appear after the tunnel and not being able to assault the turn they pop up means they can get shot up before doinga nything.

Harpies - MC where Strength 10 insta kills them so they get smoked by Demolisher Cannons, Manticores, Tyranofexes. No thanks. Also the venom cannon is rather bad worse then bs 3 las cannon. 3 attacks is also sort of gimp.

The Try Gone (Trygon) pops up and Trys by shoots some strength 5 and stuns a rhino and then gets shot and gone. Bad in testing.

The More Luck (Mawloc) pops up and probably scatters off its target or is one strength 6 hit on a vehicle unless you are really lucky and then gets shot and gone. Bad in testing.

The screamer killer carnifex pods in and either stands around looking dumb as it gets shot to death and even if you don't get shot to death in one round vehicles can move faster then you.

The dakka fex pods in stuns or kills a vehicle and then get lit up.

Thoughts
I having a really hard time with vehicle spam Mech Space Wolves and Mech Guard although this doesn't do too badly against the regular marines lists I ran into. Horde Orks has given me issues as I need an answer for Lootas and if they waagh and charge my gaunts I have a huge problem as counter attack and furious charge don't stack. Maybe Biovores or warriors but warriors don't have the range. I want my old gunfexes back. Still need to test vs dual lash.

I think you really should give warriors a try. Yes the strength 8 instakill hurts but that is that many less heavy weapons to target your MCs. I would drop a tyranofex and add a squad of warrors to pump up your mid strength shooting. Screen them with the flood of guants your are making to give them a cover save. Your stance on zoanthropes is different but understandable. I still think that you will have trouble with multiple land raiders. I would also consider giving ravenors a try again. In your shooty style having a 24" threat range beasts that you can screen with gaunts until you get close is pretty nice. They munch troops in the open or cracked out of transports. They would also add more target saturation for heavy weapons to keep your shooters alive. Finally I think that giving a smallish group of hormagaunts a pod could really solve some problems for your list like those lootas.

In summary I would recommend you drop
1 t-fex
Death Leaper
cut down on upgrades for the tervigons

Add
1 squad of warriors/ravangers
hormagaunts in a pod

I'd drop the crushing claws, my tervigons have yet to make it into combat. a hive tyrant and gaunts do the heavy lifting in combat. drop some gaunts, claws, and the prime because his ability is sorta wasted without warriors and you might have room for a hive tyrant to make super gaunts into SUPER gaunts. course thats my opinion on HQs so if you like the prime well enough, keep him and get some outflankin genestealers with your extra points.

Glancing through your post i see that you have prettymuch avoided use of the monstrous creatures available to us in this new codex. I think the issue from your playtesting is using alternate means of deployment (deep strike, e.g.). More often than not the MCs will get shot to pieces in one turn if there are only one or two to pick from as targets. Maybe try doing a new nidzilla, but keep all your guys together, use the tervigons to give FNP and pay for regen on the 6W models. it is worth it and will totally increase their longevity.

my $0.02

Shep gave me a good idea in trying Venom thropes which I might try instead of death leaper.

razorlead
What should I be arming these warriors with? Deathspitters seem lackluster when I can just assault with super gaunts. Warriors can't get any good anti tank. Going with assault warriors with boneswords might be worth trying.

fuegan13
Considering cutting crushing claws and regeneration and some gaunts and the tyranid prime to try and fit in a tyrant for the ws1 power and maybe a stranglethorn cannon.

I was testing a hive tyrant but he costs a huge number of points when you add in guard to keep him alive and really wasn't that effective other then the ws1 trick to make your gaunts super in assault which can be negated by hood/runic weapon because of its short range. Might give him another shot but points is really tight.

tetrisphreak
I tried most of the mcs in earlier lists and found that they got shot to peices really fast if you deepstriked. In order to get everything in at once your looking at Swarmlord + Tyrant for the +2 to reserves which is a huge amount of points. The current list is actually pretty hardy with gaunts in front of hive guard and tervigons behind the hive guard for cover and FNP on my choice of gaunts, hive guard or tervigons depending on what fire power I face. Jaws does eat me alive though.

I believe that the Hive Guards are no longer a retiune, it state it as a shieldwall nothing else. Now the last Codex stated that the Hive Guards were a retiune only to a Hive Tyrant.

You could try dropping the claws/regen for a second tyranid prime with boneswords. With the 20 points left over give both primes toxin. If you drop 4 termagants then you can also give the primes either regen or adrenals. This way, you get a prime in both hive guard.

With the extra prime, you also add another nasty close combat element, as very few people want to tangle with 5 attacks that cause instant death at least half the time. You can use the primes to threaten other nid mc's, who will fear the instant death and poison. It also means there is less of a reason to run a warrior brood, as the prime does what a warrior brood would do.

All in all, not a bad foot slogging list, though I think dropping deathleaper for toxinthropes, zoanthropes or more hive guard (cutting a few more gants if necessary) will benefit you more, since the theme of the list is walking firepower, and deathleaper does not contribute to this.

Your list looks very similar to the one I plan to run at 2000 pts. I would drop the Deathleaper and pick up a Venomthrope. Hide it behind an MC wall and it lets them suck up an extra 8ish AP3 or better shots (6 wounds x 4 MCs x 1/3). It also makes your Gant screen more dangerous when assaulted (opponents have to take dangerous terrain tests), which is good, since your list is pretty weak in CC.


I'd consider cutting down on the size of your initial Gant screen. Even if you're pretty unlucky you should still get a couple dozen from your Tervigons. If you drop both squads to 15 you can do the following:

Pick up a squad of 5 dual bonesword warriors (w/ Toxin Sacs, 1 Venom Cannon) to help a bit with the CC weakness.
Drop the Crushing Claws on your Tervigons and add a Biovore for anti-horde duty.

If I've done my math right, that puts you at exactly 1850. I'd double-check it, though.

5 toxwin sword warriors run 225, cutting 30 gants only gives 150.

Are you also including the 80 points from swapping the 'leaper for a venomthrope? If so, would it be better to keep the venomthrope at 2 models strong?

mrblacksunshine_1978
Hive Guards are a totally new elite unit with Strength 8 24 inch range gun for anti transport. What you are thinking of is Tyrant Guard.

DevianID
I ended up dropping the Tyranid Prime in my up dated list for a Tyrant to complete the super gaunt package and Paroxysm to make things WS1 and BS1 is so good.

Actually dunno if I actually want bonesword warriors, they get owned by assault terminators and really only good vs nobs which I can shoot with hive guard +t-fexs and feed them super gaunts to kill them.

Hesperus
I been thinking about Venomthropes. I tried them in one game but you can get coversaves by having FNPed gaunts in front with hive guard behind them and then MCs behind them also.

This is my updated list.

HQ
Hive Tyrant
Old Adversary (prefered enemy)
Stranglethorn Cannon
Leech Essense
Paroxysm
1 Tyrant Guard
275 Pts

Elite
3 Hive Guard
150 Pts

3 Hive Guard
150 Pts

Death Leaper
140 Pts

Troops
22 Termagaunts
110 Pts

21 Termagaunts
105 Pts

Tervigon
Adrenal Glands
Toxin Sacs
Catalyst
Cluster Spines
195 Pts

Tervigon
Adrenal Glands
Toxin Sacs
Catalyst
Cluster Spines
195 Pts

Heavy Support
Tyranofex
Rupture cannon
Cluster Spines
265 Pts

Tyranofex
Rupture cannon
Cluster Spines
265 Pts

Total 1850


Stats
Anti Horde: Tyrant with Strangle thorn cannon (Strength 6 AP4 large blast)2 Tervigons with Cluster Spines (Str 5 large blaste), 2 Tyranofex with Cluster Spines (Strength 5 large blast), 22 & 21 Super Gaunts (assault)
anti nob: 2x 3 hive guard (12 strength 8 shots), 2x tyrano fex (4 strength 10 shots)
anti landraider/battlewagon: 2x Tryanofex (4 strength 10 shots + 4x strength 6 + 2d6 penetration in assault), 2x tervigon 4 strength 6 attacks on charge + 2d6 penetration)
long range transport kill: 2x 3 hive guard (12 strength 8 shots), 2x Tyranofex (4 strength 10 shots)
scoring units: 6+ 21 & 21 gaunts, 2 tervigons and each tervigon gets at least 3d6 termagaunts for 2 more scoring units for 6+

Choice Explainations:
HQ
Hive Tyrant: He gets Old Adversary to give prefered enemy and Paroxysm to give WS1 to complete the super gaunts package. Strangle thorn cannon for more anti horde. Tyrant Guard for some more survivability. Leech Essense to maybe get a wound back but Paroxysm seems like the prefered power. He is expensive but he completes the super gaunt package and helps with anti horde with the strangle thorn cannon.

2x3 Hiveguard: Each unit gets 6 Strength 8 shots at 24 inches which has a good shot at taking out a transport or at least stunning it. Hiveguard also provide cover for Tervigons.

Deathleaper: main reason to take him is he can give a psyker -d3 leadership so it is easier to get off your Catalyst through their psychic hoods and so the psyker isn't as effective in getting off certain nasty powers like Jaws of the Warp Wolf. He can pop up anywhere so can be used to pick of lone characters or to contest a corner. Has been somewhat lackluster when opponent does not have a psyker. Considering cutting him for 2 Venomthropes to give cover saves to monsterous creatures but hoods and psykers are a threat.

22 Termigaunts & 21 Termagaunts - you are required to take a brood to take a troops Tervigon. They serve as cover for Hive guard and you want a large number for overwelming terminators and marines.

2x Tervigon: These guys get the works Adrenal Glands for furious charge, toxin sacs for poison, catalyst for giving out feels no pain (this can go to gaunts or it can go to hive guard or the terivgon depending on what type of fire power the opponent has) to complete the super gaunt package. Cluster spines is taken for the large template vs hordes.

2 Tryanofex keep the opponents threatening vehicles shaken and hopefully kill them. Vendettas or Las cannon Predators are bad news the Tyranofex surpresses them just like the old Gunfex did. T-fex falls a bit short of the old gunfex because it costs more and lacks the barb strangler for insta killing nob duty. Very expensive but no other way to keep Vendettas or predators from barbequing your big bugs otherwise. Initiative 1 really hurts vs jaws of the warpwolf orin close combat. With Cluster spines has a large template and a flamer for anti horde work as well.


Match ups tested so far.
Orks (Horde backed by Lootas): This didn't go so well because of Lootas decimating my gaunts so I didn't have enough to deal with the mobs assaulting me after he Waaghed. Large blasts from the monsters helped somewhat but I still got overwelmed by Orks. Might need to add Biovores for a solution to Lootas.

Imperial Guard (Mech Vet Chimera, Vendetta, Manticore Spam): Lost this one. Manticores cleaned out my gaunt screen and did significant damage to my hive guard so they were picked apart by las cannons and plasmas exposing the monsterous creatures. This is the match up where I am considering Venomthropes since the Deathleaper does nothing here. He poped up and tried to damage a chimera and then got vaporized by a las cannon.

Space marines (vulkan mech 7 assault termies in crusader, tacs in rhinos multimelta flamer speeders)
He was able to tank shock and kill a tervigon but I mobbed his termies with super gaunts and killed them. Hive guard killed his speeders quickly and he didn't have enough firepower to kill the rest of my creatures.

Space Wolves (Razorback Rhino + Speeder Mech Spam with Rune Priest): This is nearly unwinable if they have Jaws of the Warp Wolf. Deathleaper helps a little but Priest can still get off Jaws especially if you only roll a 1 for the d3. Jaws kills your Tervigons and Tyranofexes with one power and the ridiculous firepower cleans everything else up. Only won 1 out of 3 games but game was kill points and I went first in that game and my opponent did not take Jaws of the Warpwolf.

Here's my thoughts:

On the whole I like the list and it sort of has all the bases covered except nothing to worry AV13-14 except CC. this is your main weakness.

Don't expect the Tyrannofexes to do much anything to AV13 in general. Both firing everything they have at AV13 has a granted 68% chance to penetrate. But less than a 30% chance of killing it with FIRING EVERYTHING at it! Not great against AV14 the situation just gets worse against Tau with DPs again the situation gets worse. The tyrannofex is essentially wasting it's fire power against AV over 12 unless you only wish to pause the tanks shooting... 530 points well spent? Trust me as a Tau player 1 S10 shot even at BS5 and AP1 isn't great anti-tank firepower. The Tyrannofex is just way too expensive to just sit there stunning 100 point vehicles...

I like Death leaper but I really can't see how you can afford to not take Zoanthropes to a tournament. Just counting on not facing any Landraiders seems a pretty flawed plan.

Jaws just stuffs the new 'Nid Dex in so many ways and your list in particular (and mine and...), SW just are superior to everything really. But still miles weaker than the auto-win button Wolves of 2nd Ed.

I'd have another look at the Trygons take them as Primes and in pairs and the 18" range allows you to DS out of the way and still get off a few shots. You need two though or they just get toasted the turn they arrive. They work well with Hive Commander especially in Pod and Stealer lists where you can have nearly everything arrive on Turn 2 for target saturation. Having one Trygon DS in on it's own, is about as sensible as having one dreadnought DS in on it's own. You'll notice no competitive SM players do this...

Though the rest of the list I like except crushing claws on the Tervigons seems a little pointless and over priced since you don't really want them in CC much.

I don't like the 2nd list as much as you have no delivery system for your 275 point Tyrant, no duel threat and no target saturation. He dies turn 1 then they concentrate on your Tervigons and if they are sensible they'll just ignore the non-threatening Tyrannofexes and then assault them when they get near.

Nice List,

I think you have a general idea about composing a list, and you put a lot of thought into reasoning, nice work.

I disagree about (one early reply) taking warriors as they are too mid point mid strength and most of what you want is available in larger nids, with much higher survivability. Or else in swarms of expendibles....

But you are losing most of your games.......

Why?

Cos you have such high points invested in 5 big MC that simply aren't giving you enough points back in clear kills.

You need to enhance your kill ouput/point.

Suggestion: Replacing first HQ slot of Hive Tyrant with Brood Lord. Hunted with hunter. Ability to attack where you want to is very useful. Tackle things of equal or less weight (biomass). The psychological edge of choosing your targets is great, and he is the perfect solution for devastators. broadsides, the rear armour of a Leman Russ, IG command squads, with or without chimeras....artillery...

Suggestion: Minimalise points and maximise numbers of MCs. General principle.

Even with the new codex improvements in some areas of shooting, you are better taking up the CC initiative.

Big guns sound good on paper, but no capable player is gonna offer easy line of sight to your big guns if they can help it. Less points on guns, and more points on bodies and claws!

And more means to get to the enemy and engage them in CC, cos when they are engaged they can no longer shoot you with their deffguns and melta guns, but instead they gotta CC with their weaker mellee stats, and their being outnumbered, and the danger of running.

You shouldn't base your army on the threat of landraiders, since they are statistically rare, and they can't themselves claim objectives.

You need fast ways to engage shooty things, enough guns to deal with transports, and fast ways of engaging with space marine commanders in CC and ripping them to pieces.

One Tervigon as a gaunt factory is enough. Convert the other one, one bunch of gaunts, 3 hive guard and the death leaper into a winged CC hive tyrant and about 10 tooled up CC Raveners. Speed and power to give you tactical control of where and when to fight. Or less raveners and whatever number of hormagaunts you are comfortable with. Same idea, different delivery system. The raveners cant beat the toughest CC units, but with the tyrant they can. And they are purpose built for taking on firesupport units like looters. Not all attacks are to kill. Sometimes it is as good to engage, even if you lose a combat after a couple of turns you have taken the danger out of play for a time, and given yourself a chance for your best units to earn their points back.

Dropping one Tyrannofex will trade in for 2 Biovores and 2 Zoantrophes 4 Bodies in four locations give many more firing angles on many more targets, and spore mines will be salutory vs ork, IG and other brat lists.

Keep one Tervigon, and one Terranofex and 3 Hive guard.

But use more mobile units to take the inititiative and give you more control of the flow of battle.

I also like FlingIts take about a POD list.

If I was asked to compose my own nid list examine the following principles:

(1) Entire army starts in reserve.
(2) majority arrives by pod or deep strike.
(3) Non pod-deepstriking units are fast.
(4) Few guns (excepting biovores and Zoantrophes)
(5) Numerous 6 point hormagaunts
(6) As many low point CC MCs as can pod in.
(7) small units of genestealers which operate in tandem with CC carnifexes. (cos Carnis can rip landraiders, but they aren't so good in non-vehicle CC)

The principle of starting off board and moving on fast is solid. By this means, a rather large army provides no target for enemy templates or vehicle heavy guns in the first round.

All the small and mid sized nids are simply decoys and helpers for your main power, which is in the CC MCs. (heavy, elite, HQ) You use deployment to concentrate the whole biomass at one point of the enemy line, with possible a couple of Zoantrophes wandering on the edge of the battle. Smash that point then move on.

In your present list it seems you plan to deploy, stand and shoot.

The problem with this is the other guy is given the initiative by your thinking to organise his way and time for attacking you.

Change to a blitz army and come in from off board, and you will deny the opponent the initiative.

Anyways, good luck with the list you have.

Hopefully some of this advice is useful.

OTG


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: There is no point in buffing 40 gaunts! They can be killed by two blasts of a Leman Russ battle cannon. Yes you can spawn more, and they will die in the same way. If you are gonna buff gaunts with a Hive Tyrant you are talking about an army with plenty more gaunts.... the best Tyrants aint the buffy shooty type, but the rippy throat cutting type.....backed up with three tyrant guard and a minimum squad of genestealers running cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As you found, dime a dozen lootas and IG can outshoot a shooty tyrant, which is embarrassing but true.

I haven't actually seen the Hive Guard model yet, and given that there isn't a model for Tervigons or Tyrannofeces, I didn't want to assume that Hive Guard could give them cover. If they can, you're right, you probably don't need the Venomthrope as much.

From the last few comments, I think a couple people might be missing the point of a list like this. This is an attrition list, pure and simple.

Gaunts screen the Hive Guard, Hive Guard screen the MCs. Everything walks to the center of the board. If the enemy has no heavy tanks, you can expect about 3 transports to pop per turn. If he does, about 2 per turn (from the Hive Guard; the Tyrannofeces just keep the heavy tanks from firing or, if they get lucky, blow one up). Tervigons grant FNP to your enemy's most likely targets. Once you're in midfield, you can start dropping Cluster Spines blasts on infantry, or shooting them down with Termagants.

And when you get to midfield, you should have most of your army intact.

Why? You have, going off the last list posted, 24 T6 wounds with a 3+ save or better, and another 12 with a 4+ save, all in 4+ cover (if Hive Guard aren't big enough to screen, take a Venomthrope so you get at least 5+ cover).

With that 4+ cover, it takes 12 lascannon WOUNDS, on average, to kill a Tervigon, or Tyrannofex, or the Tyrant. That's over 14 hits. That's over 21 lascannon shots. For one MC. How many armies can put out that kind of firepower? And if they injure but don't kill one of your MCs, you can easily hide it behind your other 4.

Meltagun spam could be a problem, but if they arrive via transport (ie not by deep strike), you should be able to knock enough of them out with your Hive Guard before they get in range. If they deep strike, you should be able to use screening units to keep them out of range. And you still have your 4+ save.

Your Termagants will get shot a lot, sure, but for the first few turns at least your Tervigons should do a fairly good job replacing your losses.

This army won't massacre the enemy. It just doesn't hit that hard. But by God it can take a punch, and at the end of the game I bet you have more left than the other guy.

Hesperus

It appears you've never heard of sternguard? LR spam will annihilate this list. Sternguard will annihilate this list. Tau should be able to throw out enough fire power in 2 turns of shooting to kill the Hive Tyrant and at least one Tervigon. Leman Russ spam will blow huge holes in this list with impunity until about turn 4.

Against Av13-14 heavy lists or in your face alphastrike lists I think this list will struggle. Alphastrike can be to an extent mitigated by deployment (though you are short on screens) but without Zoanthropes or fast MCs you'll really struggle against AV13-14.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

FlingitNow
T-fex does more then stun vehicles. It has a strength 5 large blast and a wound on 2's template for anti horde work. It is really expensive yes but what else will I run? The old gunfex only shook vehicles with its venom cannon and it was standard.

I haven't been to happy with Zoanthropes. They sound good on paper but you have about a 91% chance to pass psyker test on ld 10 Then you have to get past hood 60% of the time so your down to 55%. You hit 67% of the time so your now down to 37% you pen 67% of the time so your now down to 25%, you then get a kill half the time so 12% to kill a vehicle per zoanthrope. Gets worse at 6% if they have smoke launchers. You then have to invest in Hive Tyrants with Hive Commander for the bonus to reserves to pod in a timely manner. I tried them and they did rather poorly.

Nids just doesn't have a good answer for Land Raiders. Zoanthropes don't quite do it vs Land Raiders. Hive Guard are bad vs land raiders. Walking up and bashing with a MC when they move 12 or at least 6 isn't exactly a guarantee either.

I did try a drop list before this one and you have to go all in with drop for the +2 reserves and thats expensive and then the stuff that drops otherwise you arrive peice meal and get shot up.

Try-Gones aren't very good vs mech tourney lists. I played vs a 1850 drop nid list with 2 tyrants, drop zoanthropes, outflanking stealers, 2 trygons with my 1850 guard, on turn 6 all he had left was 2 units of gaunts.

I cut the crushing claws because your exactly right not worth the points and I don't want my tervigon in CC.

Tyrant gets a coversave from hiding behind hive guard so it takes 12 wounds to smoke him and his tyrant guard so thats about 18 las cannon/missle shots. If you have alot of missles and I think you will shoot him I can give him fnp. He doesn't need a delivery system cause he hangs out in cover and shoots his 36 inch range strangle thorn cannon at whatever falls out of the transport that the hive guard poped. He gives a prefered enemy bubble and when he gets close enough he uses his WS1 power for the gaunt assault.

Podding Sternguard what they wound on a 2+ and got combi meltas I still get an armor save vs the bolters and a cover save vs the meltas. So you smoke 1 MC with your sternguard. I'll smoke them right back when I assault them with super gaunts. Since sternguard are crazy expensive too we probably about even points wise.

I played this list against max firepower mech spam space wolves with no jaws and not only lived to tell about it but won. Tau puts out less firepower then that.

Land raider spam is a big problem. This list takes it in the chin to Land Raider Spam and Jaws of the Warp Wolf badly. I don't have a solution to either. Thats just my kryptonite. I'm not that scared of Leman Russ spam because I do get cover saves and that takes it in the chin to the same dual Raider Vulkan TH/SS Termi list I lose too, and loses hard to Alpha strikers.

Orc Town Grot
Brood Lord is an upgrade for Genestealers now, no longer the HQ choice of 4th edition.

imo you need big guns to reach out and putting results on vehicles. If they get to keep shooting and kill your mcs or move troops to objectives you lose. claws are largely worthless unless you deepstrike if you need to run there on legs which is too slow, besides vehicles are faster then you are moving 12 if they want to and you hit on 6's.

Pod list is a different animal and I don't want to play a pod list. Tried it and hate it. Rather just pass on 5th edition nids and play my IG, or Crimson Fists till 6th edition nids comes out.

CC Raveners are terrible, tried them they get insta killed by strength 8 when they can't assault when they show up and no grenades means marines hit you first and that powerfist is going to hurt. Maybe if you hide them behind a MC wall as a counter assault unit but they cost alot and still get owned by TH/SS termies. Raveners are terrible vs lootas, you drop in and lootas just shoot you and if raveners still not dead then lootas hit first when you assault cause you have no grenades and you die.

Hive guard serve two purposes, anti transport and to give your MCs cover. If I lose them I need Venomthropes and Zoanthropes.

I'd drop t-fexs if there was something else good you could take for anti tank but there isn't.

Hesperus
Your getting the right idea.

As Kirika said, Sternguard would damage but not destroy this list. For one, you still get armor saves against them, so it takes 36 wounds, on average, to kill a Tyrannofex. 18 for a Tervigon/Tyrant with guard, 12 for a squad of Hive Guard. If they're not podding in, you can Catalyst the MCs/Hive Guard in range of them. If they are, you can probably force them to deploy in a particular area anyway, and Catalyst the relevant squads.

Land Raider spam lists will be challenging, but far from a foregone conclusion. Your TFeces can reliably damage, if not destroy, a Raider per turn, and Raiders don't put out too much firepower either.

Of course, the problem is what comes out of the Raiders, but even there you can come out on top. Paroxysm + Old Adversary + 20 Supergants = about 6 dead Terminators or 12 dead Marines at Init 5. With 2 Tervigons there's a pretty good chance you'll have that on hand.

Okay, Jaws of the World Wolf straight-up destroys this army. You either kill the Rune Priest immediately or you lose. No getting around that.

It's not a perfect list, and not my top choice for a tournament simply because it doesn't do enough damage to get a lot of massacres, but it will win games.

FlingitNow wrote:Hesperus

It appears you've never heard of sternguard? LR spam will annihilate this list. Sternguard will annihilate this list. Tau should be able to throw out enough fire power in 2 turns of shooting to kill the Hive Tyrant and at least one Tervigon. Leman Russ spam will blow huge holes in this list with impunity until about turn 4.

Against Av13-14 heavy lists or in your face alphastrike lists I think this list will struggle. Alphastrike can be to an extent mitigated by deployment (though you are short on screens) but without Zoanthropes or fast MCs you'll really struggle against AV13-14.

The problem with zoans is without the deathleaper you will not get the shot off near enough. Every IG SM or SW player brings a hood and SW brings two hood affects. Zoans pop in or worse yet start on the table maybe kill one transport then die to instant death. Look at a group of three 1.5 of them will get the shot off versus a hood kill one transport maybe a LR then die. So you suggest taking what three units of them? so i kill three transports or even LR then my shooting is gone and don't even talk about podding them in. If they are your tankbusting then they are too important to leave to total chance you ever get them in.

T-fex does more then stun vehicles. It has a strength 5 large blast and a wound on 2's template for anti horde work. It is really expensive yes but what else will I run? The old gunfex only shook vehicles with its venom cannon and it was standard.

It wasn't 265 points though...

Yeah I see you points and largely agree. You're wrong on Sternguard though I doubt 3 units would only kill 1 MC more like 3. That would be the Tyrant and both Tervigons leaving you with mauled units of non-super gaunts to re-charge back. Or your Hive Guard and/or Deathleaper and/or the non-threatening points sink of Tyrannofex... None of which is really designed to take on 30 MEQs (with 3 attacks each when you charge them). Vulkan lists AND Pedro lists would be your Kryptonite. SWs are everyones Kryptonite and you'd get slaughtered by Mech spam wolves because I can't imagine why they wouldn't take at least 1 Jaws. Though in taking Deathleaper and 6 Hive Guard you've done the best you can against that.

But as I say on the whole I like it, just I don't rate the Tyrannofex at all. It is just far too expensive to sit there stunning vehicles.

Hesperus
Just curious whats your nid list look like?

FlingItnow
Guess 3 units of drop sternguard would be bad for me too then. Well I could reserve it all and let you pod in first.

I'm all ears if there is a good option for anti tank besides the tyranofex. 6 hive guard doesn't cut it alone. Other heavies just don't cut it. Zoanthropes just don't get the job done with Hoods and Runic Weapons and they don't come in till turn 2 at the earliest.

Well I could reserve it all and let you pod in first.

With no Hive Commander and few spods that could be the worst thing for you with this list...

I'm all ears if there is a good option for anti tank besides the tyranofex. 6 hive guard doesn't cut it alone. Other heavies just don't cut it. Zoanthropes just don't get the job done with Hoods and Runic Weapons and they don't come in till turn 2 at the earliest.

Fair enough I'd argue the Tyrannofex isn't a good option for anti-tank either... Certainly not at the points cost!

Maybe just roll over and die? The all spod/out flank list is looking more and more competitive if you ask me as the AT is provided by MC in CC then. But hey you still have to survive a turn of hiim shooting you in the face...

Maybe just concede that GW want the Cheese Wolves to win every tournament? Heck Deathleaper can shut down physchic hoods but is powerless against runic weapons... Just a coincidence that the SW have a totally different anti-psyker rule to all other marines that isn't damaged by the new 'Nid codex?

The Tyranofex isn't very good but its the least crappy option a lot like politics these days. the least crappy candidate gets in.

Friend told me to try this.

HQ
Tyranid Prime
Boneswords
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands
110 Pts

Elite
3 Hive Guard
150 Pts

3 Hive Guard
150 Pts

Doom of Malan'tai
Mycetic Spore
130 Pts


Troops
22 Termagaunts
110 Pts

21 Termagaunts
105 Pts

Tervigon
Adrenal Glands
Toxin Sacs
Catalyst
Cluster Spines
195 Pts

Tervigon
Adrenal Glands
Toxin Sacs
Catalyst
Cluster Spines
195 Pts

4 Warriors
Boneswords
Toxin Sacs
180 Pts

Heavy Support
Tyranofex
Rupture cannon
Cluster Spines
265 Pts

Tyranofex
Rupture cannon
Cluster Spines
265 Pts

Total 1850

Doom would provide a big distraction and maybe kill a bunch, Tyranid Prime + Bonesword Warriors would be more of an assault element that would supplement the super gaunts running up behind them for cover I do lose the Prefered enemy bubble and BS1 WS1 power of the Tyrant though.

The Roll over and finish up my Guard and repaint my Crimson Fists and Chaos marines option is sounding pretty good.

I heard rumors the Bull Angels will be even better then Cheese Wolves. Armywide feels no pain, some new flying transport you can fly 12 and assault out of with jump pack marines / death company for the 24 inch first turn charge.

I heard rumors the Bull Angels will be even better then Cheese Wolves. Armywide feels no pain, some new flying transport you can fly 12 and assault out of with jump pack marines / death company for the 24 inch first turn charge.

Vanilla marines already have units capable of a 45" first turn charge

I doubt GW would bring out any army better than the cheese wolves. Heck look at the 'Nids all their stuff gets pre-boned by the SWs. SWs are great for killing MCs now, oh look 'Nids got loads of MCs. SWs in cover throw out 3 attacks each when charged meaning they bone horde charges even with high I, oh look 'Nid list is based on horde charges with I5-6... Sws get a power that just massacres low I creatures, Oh look 'Nid MCs have I1. SWs rather randomnly have a totally different way of hulifying psychic powers instead of a psychic hood, oh look deathleaper helps 'Nids shut down marine anti-psker hoods...

Blood Angels may well be horrific but they won't beat cheese wolves that for sure