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As the title says if a walker gets immobilized can it still pivot to face an enemy behind it to shoot it?

I would think the answer is yes as you can physically move the upper torso of a walker , however i want to clear this up since my friends are playing a game and the issue came up. I want to make sure i have the proper ruling

Conservatively speaking, no, they can't because pivoting is part of movement. There's also a line about immobilized vehicles not being able to turn in place on the damage chart.

It's worth noting that not all walkers would necessarily have the ability to twist at the waist. Depending on the model, Imperial sentinels don't have a pivot point, and I think the same is true for Eldar war walkers. For that matter, it's even a bit questionable on the old Rogue Trader dreadnoughts.

The BRB says that a vehicle cannot pivot if it is immobilized.

The Walkers rules says that the walker pivots when it..pivots..to fire.

So no. You can't pivot to fire.

The guns are considered hull mounted so have a 45 degree firing arc but other than that, the walker is a sitting duck.

Interesting. Is the Defilers battle cannon also bound by this?

unbeliever87 wrote:Interesting. Is the Defilers battle cannon also bound by this?

I would think so. Why wouldn't it be?

Marshal_Gus wrote:

unbeliever87 wrote:Interesting. Is the Defilers battle cannon also bound by this?

I would think so. Why wouldn't it be?

My group has always assumed that the battle cannon was turret mounted, which I'd never thought to question. I guess my mates Defiler got a little less dangerous! Cheers for that!

The walker swivels to fire(at least some of them that can). So depending on the one in question I would say you may swivel at the joint if you have one to fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After reading more further I guess the Immobilised walker may only "swivel" 45 degrees to fire. So pivoting all around is not allowed

No, it cannot Pivot. What you "think" is irrelevant.

unbeliever87 wrote:My group has always assumed that the battle cannon was turret mounted, which I'd never thought to question. I guess my mates Defiler got a little less dangerous! Cheers for that!

As a clarification on that, the Defiler's BC is never defined as turret mounted, and the rulebook lists a specific fire arc for walker weapons on page 72 ("Walkers Shooting", third paragraph). ALL weapons mounted on a walker have a 45 degree arc.

So even if it was mounted on a turret, it would still only have a 45 degree arc.

Right. If the weapon isn't specifically defined as turret-mounted, it can't be used as such when the walker is immobilized.

The "walkers pivoting at the waist" thing has no backing in the rules at all. I don't know why people continue to bring this up...

willydstyle wrote:The "walkers pivoting at the waist" thing has no backing in the rules at all. I don't know why people continue to bring this up...

QFT

The walker cannot pivot (or "swivel") at all if immobilised. Regardless of modeling all walker weapons fire in the 45 degree frontal arc. There's not much leeway here.

willydstyle wrote:The "walkers pivoting at the waist" thing has no backing in the rules at all. I don't know why people continue to bring this up...

That would be because it was how it worked last edition. And because Space Marine Dreadnoughts are the most common (often the only) walker that people see on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Owain wrote:Right. If the weapon isn't specifically defined as turret-mounted, it can't be used as such when the walker is immobilized.

Not quite. My point was that even if the weapon was defined as turret mounted it would only have a 45 degree arc, as the rulebook states that all walker weapons have a 45 degree arc.

Eh, in the last edition walkers had a front 180. I could be wrong, but I don't remember them being able to rotate all the way around if they were immobilized.

I may actually be remembering 3rd edition... getting too old to tell them apart

But at some point in the dim mists of history, walkers (or at the very least dreadnoughts) had the option to still pivot at the waist on their first immobilised result, with a further immobilisation locking the waist as well.

insaniak wrote:As a clarification on that, the Defiler's BC is never defined as turret mounted

I hope that is not the criteria for defining what is or is not 'turret mounted'.

There are very few, if any, explicitly, outright 'defined turrets' or 'turret mounted weapons'.

Other than going by how it is modeled, many vehicles would not have 'turrets'.

It should be, but no, GW aren't consistent enough with their labelling to go by whether or not it's actually called a turret.

insaniak wrote:It should be, but no, GW aren't consistent enough with their labelling to go by whether or not it's actually called a turret.

So is it possible that the bc on a defiler could be a turret?

Or are turrets just an impossibility on walkers?

As I mentioned before, it doesn't make any difference. Even if it is a turret, ALL weapons on walkers have a 45 degree arc. That's stated very specifically in the Walker rules.

What happens when firing at a valid target with an Immobilised walker?

I believe the Walker rules state that when choosing a target, the walker is pivoted to directly face the unit it is firing at for the purposes of determining facing in later phases of the game.

So if a Walker is Immobilised, and he has a valid target 45 degrees to his right, what would happen?

He shoots at the target without pivoting, because he cannot pivot. It's not rocket science.

Thanks, Gwar.

I was going to agree.... but then I wanted to verify in the BRB (page 72) that I was reading the rules right...

It actually seems to indicate that the pivoting associated with shooting a walker does not count as moving. So, when shooting the walker with an immobilised status, you can pivot it to face the unit it is shooting at for the purposes of determining facing in the later phases of the game.


If I'm interpreting it correctly...

No. the arc of fire is 45 degrees. the target is within the arc, you simply roll your dice for shooting at it. the model cannot move, pivot, swivel, dance, or anything else that involves manipulating the plastic with your hands. What. so. ever.

So are we saying that the Immobilised's "May not move the rest of the game" > Walker Shooting's "This pivoting in the Shooting phase does not count as moving..."?

a-ha! the point in question here is does the walker *need* to pivot to fire? the answer is no, it's LoS is 45 degrees from each gun. If the walker can "see" the target it can shoot. If it cannot, it does not shoot. If it is not shooting, it is not pivoting either.

True. I can see your point.... but the Walker Shooting rules state that "when firing the walker's weapons, pivot the walker on the spot so the guns are aimed at the target."

I guess the interpretation of "guns are aimed at the target" is what would be misleading to everyone.

Cause technically, since the gun can swivel 45 degrees, it could be pointed at a target without the walker pivoting to directly face the unit it is firing at.

I guess this gets chalked up to the slightly ambiguous wording and there would be no definitive answer though the concensus is "No moving of the walker at all".

Works for me.


***edited for spelling and clarification of wording

If the guns are within a 45 degree arc, they ARE aimed at the target unit.

Pivoting does not count as movement for *any* vehicle, not just for walkers. However, the section on vehicles' movement is very clear, it says something along the tune of "pivoting does not count as movement (note that an immobilised vehicle may not even pivot)."

This realtes quite nicely into the Fire Frenzy thread. Can a dread pivot at all? or is it bound by the 45 degree fire arc?

Praxiss wrote:This realtes quite nicely into the Fire Frenzy thread. Can a dread pivot at all? or is it bound by the 45 degree fire arc?

If a [Vehicle (Walker)], does not have a status of being Immobilized, then the [Vehicle (Walker)] should be pivoted on the spot (this pivot specifically during the Shooting phase does not count as Movement) so that the unit it has declared to be a target during the Shooting phase is within the 45 degree front arc of its weapons.

If a [Vehicle (Walker)], does have a status of being Immobilized, then the [Vehicle (Walker)] cannot be pivoted at all. Any unit it has declared to be a target during the Shooting phase must be within the 45 degree front arc of its weapons with the facing it had when it received its Immobilized status.

This seems to be the concensus on how this should be played.

*** Edited for emphasis with underlines and some clarification