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I was wondering if there was any glaring weaknesses that could be tweaked within this list...
My list summed up is...

Ghazghkull
Grotsnik
8 Mega Nobz (Cybork Body)
In a Battlewagon

x2
20 Boyz & Nob w/ Powerklaw & Bosspole
In a Battlewagon

x4
12 Boyz & Nob w/ Powerklaw & Bosspole
In a Trukk

Battlewagons are armed with: Big Shoota, Grabbin KLaw, Boarding Plank
Trukks are armed with: Boarding Planks

This leaves 12 points to give 2 Battlewagons Reinforced Rams (The Ones without Ghazghkull in it)

yeah, no long range firepower watsoever. eldar and dark eldar can run circles around this list without even trying to hard and certain mech lists will just play the water warrior game with you. find someway to add some accurate long range(24+) anti-tank to at least slow the stupid vehicles down so your nobs/boyz can catch the and make them pay for running away like a coward.

To be fair, an Ork list of this nature is never going to have any accurate long range firepower, and will struggle against those lists regardless.

It's a decent looking list. Some minor changes I would make is to replace the MANS with a regular complex Nob squad, and perhaps drop one of the Trukk mobs for some Deffkoptas with TL/Rokkits. Also, what does Grotsnik give your Nobs that a regular Painboy doesn't?

The only thing I would keep in mind is that your vehicles are twice as likely to be destroyed as they would be with a KFF. The odds are still relatively slim given that you are really looking for a turn 2 assault, but if you aren't getting enemies out of their vehicles and exposed quickly, you will see significantly higher attrition on your vehicles than you would with a cookie cutter KoS list.

That and that not putting a ram on Thraka's wagon makes it 6 times more likely to be immobilized. That can mitigated in most games as you can find a clear path for 1 vehicle out of your 7, but is a substantial risk worth mentioning.

List looks awesome. The only thing i would think about changing would be as follows.

Drop the one squad of 20 boyz in the wagon and get some more Nobz for the other BW. This gives you 2 units that can rip armor apart instead of just 1. You have more than enough boyz in a Mech army list IMO. Even if you dont want to dish out the points (or cash) for more Nobz, you could easily drop the squads down to 4 or 5 in each wagon and be FINE. You will find that 8 MANZ with Ghazzy is OVERKILL.

Also, Deff Rollas, Deff Rollas, Deff Rollas. This helps me out a lot....given that you can use it against vehicles =)

Also, drop grotsnik for a KFF Mech and throw him inside one of the wagons. I cant stress enough as to how important that stupid KFF model really is. It saved my ass so many times its not even funny.

All in all, its an extremely solid list.

@Fuegan17
I would love to see an eldar army dance around this list. Orks always lack ranged Fire support, but adding that support means your only going to use it on turn 1 and on turn 2 LoS becomes a huge issue as well as units that are already tied up. Considering his orks are going to hit the lines on turn 2, its pointless to drop points into something that wont do a damn thing passed turn 1.

If he needs some anti armor fire support, the ONLY option that i see working would be a couple small units of deff koptas. Scout them and pop armor on turn 1.

Grotsnik grants MANS the ability to take a 5++ save and charge things that have power weapons or S8 attacks...

MANS give me 32 S9 attacks that ignore armor saves...

Even though Ghaz is scary in hand to hand, I have seen people ignore him because it is easier to kill T4 and W2 with 3-4 extra S9 attacks then T5 and W4 with eternal warrior with only 5-7 S10 attacks...

The only problem with taking the KFF means that I would have to drop Grotsnik or Ghazghkull.... both are vital...

Grotsnik makes the MANS worth taking because a unit of power weapons (IE: the opposing army's "Super unit") does not just wipe them out... Dropping Grotsnik means Dropping Mans thus freeing up 520 points...

Ghazghkull grants me the 12" charge with a full 6" run and fleet. He is also the scariest thing on the board... Dropping the big guy means adding red paint to everything so I can me the T2 assault... 225-35=190 points freed up...

With the 520 points freed up I could purchase a squad of complex Nobz for 406 but they could not truly assault something like assault terminators because they have no invulnerable save... The Kff will bring my surplus of points from 104 to 19, allowing me to give Ghaz a Reinforced Ram in addition to 2 other items for the other battlewagons...

With the 190 points freed up I could buy a Kff and 2 Deffkoptas with rokkits leaves my surplus of points to a measly 15 points... enough to get each of the Battlewagons an additional item like grot riggers and a reinforced Ram...

@Bad_Sheep37: Ghaz's unit is overkill only if you hit a single unit at a time... but with a 6+2d6 (commonly 10)" assault range, a 2" for getting out of the vehicle means I have a 12" threat bubble. I can spread as far as 20" for unit coherency, and thanks to the terminator bases a little bit more. Grotsnik make a single Manz able to stand up to an entire TAC squad as it take 48 nonpower S4 attacks to wound one and 6 powered S4 attacks to wound one. When Ghaz Charges he charges either the enemies army minus their super squad or their super squad...

A Painboy can give regular Nobs cybork bodies for the same price Grotsnik does.

For the price of those MANS + Grotsnik you could fit in a squad of complex nobs (3 PK, 2 BC, 3 C-Skorchas, W.banner, Painboy) all with 'eavy armour and cybork bodies, plus a Big Mek with a KFF and Power Klaw. All with 25 points leftover. It might not hit as hard, but this unit lets you play the wound allocation game that you cannot do with the MANS, and gives you 3D6 movement with Ghaz rather than 2D6. Just something to think about.

Re-inforced rams on ALL vehicles. Find ze points (drop a meganob or something)!!

number9dream wrote:Re-inforced rams on ALL vehicles. Find ze points (drop a meganob or something)!!

and substitute those rams for Deff Rollas on the wagons if you can find the points.

With the 520 points freed up I could purchase a squad of complex Nobz for 406 but they could not truly assault something like assault terminators because they have no invulnerable save... The Kff will bring my surplus of points from 104 to 19, allowing me to give Ghaz a Reinforced Ram in addition to 2 other items for the other battlewagons...

A regular painboy can purchase the whole squad cybork bodies for 5 pts per model thus giving them the same invul save thus allowing them to assault anything they want with 2 wounds a piece.


From my experience, mega nobs are not the way to go. They are too slow, too many points, and always attack last in close combat. From my experience it's better to have a mix of power klaws and big choppas so that on the charge you will likely strike first and kill the bulk of the unit so you have less saves to roll when they attack you. Also having big choppas is nice because it grants STR 7 on the charge giving you 2+ to wound on most units in 40k. Grotsnik is not always the best choice but I like to play with him from time to time. If you are facing a good opponent he will mess with you because he knows that One Scalpel Short of a Medpack makes you move towards the nearest enemy as fast as you can. Trust me, it sucks HAVING to move towards gun drones or pathfinders instead of the easy to kill crisis suits or broadsides.

I usually run a list with 8 nobs w/ heavy armor (4 w/ claws, 4 with big choppas, 1 with waaagh banner), 1 painboy w/ heavy armor and grot orderly, and a warboss with big choppa and heavy armor and attk squig. On top of that I give them all cybork bodies. I start them in an open topped trukk with red paint job and strategically put it behind cover if I deploy last. If I deploy first I put it out in the open because I rarely lose to "seize the initiative". Then I move it 19 inches straight towards the heart of the enemy. I don't care if the trukk dies, it's purpose is to get the nobs as close to the enemy in turn 1 so I will likely assault turn 2.

Granted I still have the same 10 models left in my nob squad I would normally attack with warboss first and maybe big choppa nobz first giving me 24 attacks on the charge rolling 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound.
Then painboy with 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound.
They attack me maybe killing 1 nob or wounding 1 big choppa that already attack.
Then I get 16 attack at 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound with no armor saves allowed and insta kills all units with multiple wounds except monstrous creatures.
Roll D6 to consolidate.

Sure meganobz get 2+ sv with 5+ invul but essentially they are all the same. So when rolling your saves you have to roll them as a bunch and start removing whole models first. If you have a complex unit like mine, you essentially have 5 units within 1 unit therefore making it much much easier to split up the wounds to whomever you see fit, following the rules on pg 25-26 of the main rulebook of course. IMO it's better to be able to fail 1 wound (non-instant death and after FNP) for power klaws group, 1 wound for big choppa group and still have all 8 nobs left instead of rolling 2 dice for a meganobz unit and failing both having to remove 1 whole model.

My only concern is, without spending an additional 50 points on an invulnerable save... the unit cannot stand up to assault terminators...

If they do fight something similar to assault terminators with 5++ saves instead of Eavy armor then I am relying on a 5++ save and a 4+ FNP save for regular troops...

In addition, how often do Nobz go first? How often do they swing at the same time?

Without this unit in my army... I feel that enemy "super squads" will just wipe my Nobz regardless of how complex they are....

The squad accompanying Ghaz is meant to hit 2-4 units of infantry... I am not confident in a 5++ and 4+ FNP over 2+ and 4+ FNP to protect against a horde of nonpower attacks...

While complex units may keep the unit alive... it loses it effectiveness as Nobz take only 1 wound...

So spend the 40 points and give them an invulnerable save? Even with 'Eavy armour and Cybork bodies the complex Nob squad still ends up cheaper than the MANS.

Against TH/SS Assault Terminators the two squads have the exact same defensive capabilities. Thunder Hammers are still going to ID your MegaNobs regardless of their armour save. Lightning Claws are still going to ignore your armour save, but at least with a complex Nob unit you can spread the wounds around.

My only concern is, without spending an additional 50 points on an invulnerable save... the unit cannot stand up to assault terminators...

If you go with my squad from previous posting.
8 Nobs, 4 pk and 4 big choppa, 1 waaagh banner, 8 heavy armor, 8 cybork bodies
1 painboy, heavy armor and grot orderly
1 warboss, big choppa, heavy armor, cybork, and attack squig
total points - 535 pts

Your squad of ghaz, grotsnik, and 8 mega nobz is 745 pts.

That's a HUGE difference.

Mine will attack assault terminators first with 22 big choppa attacks with the warboss's 6 attacks inflicting instadeath on the charge for unsaved armor wounds (it so happens you can fail 2+ armor saves). Along with the painboy's 4 attacks that wound on a 4+. Being WS 5, for your entire NOB squad (waagh banner) you hit on 3+ wounding on 2+. This will take out a few terminators if they are all armed with TH/SS. I have never seen any SM players pay 400 points for a 10 man Assault Terminator squad, that's just utterly ridiculous.

Then it's time for instadeath weapons.
Terminators w/ TH/SS will go at same time as Power klaws.
16 Terminator attacks at 4+ hit and 2+ wound VS
16 Nob attacks at 3+ hit and 2+ wound
You get 5+ invul and 4+ FNP (which is exactly the same crap you get in mega armor w/ cybork only you're paying ALOT less in points with my list)
They get 3+ invul.

Most likely you will win because of the big choppa attacks.

Then the PK and the Terminators will go at the same time, more than likely resulting in Terminators losing.

This all will happen if you assault first. With 10 nobs vs 10 assault terminators using my setup.

In addition, how often do Nobz go first? How often do they swing at the same time?

Orks usually go first in my experience if they assault first because of furious charge USR.

Without this unit in my army... I feel that enemy "super squads" will just wipe my Nobz regardless of how complex they are....

They can't wipe them if they are in locked in CC (ie doing their job), there are few squads in the game that can take on a complex squad of Nobs....especially if the nobs are on warbikes but that's another discussion.

The squad accompanying Ghaz is meant to hit 2-4 units of infantry... I am not confident in a 5++ and 4+ FNP over 2+ and 4+ FNP to protect against a horde of nonpower attacks...

2-4 units?!?!? So you plan to use it against IG that don't deepstrike, or another horde ork army? It is very rare to assault more than 2 units in the same turn because normally players spread the units about to avoid blast templates, and multiple assaults.



I never said to give them either cybork or heavy armor...give them BOTH every single time with a regular painboy. You get 4+ armor then 4+ FNP, or a 5+ invul then a 4+ FNP. Just because it goes through your armor doesn't mean it insta kills you. You have 2 wounds per model!!! The only thing that will insta death you are str 8 weapons which are AP 1 or AP 2 anyways so even meganobz will die from it without FNP because FNP can't be used against AP1 or AP2 weapons. I hope you're not confused because power weapons don't confer insta death, they just ignore armor saves and will attack before your meganobz because they are penalized like power fists and power klaws. So you meganobz 745 point 2+ armor save is absolutely worthless.


Take it from me man, having to roll difficult terrain every movement phase is not a fair trade for 2+ armor save and it surely isn't worth the extra 20 points per nob model without a painboy so making you buy grotsnik at 160 pts and having to buy cybork anyways at the same price...also no waaagh banner for 1+ WS to almost always hit on 3+ in CC!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also with my list I can start turn 1 by moving 19 inches in a trukk with red paint job, move 13 inches in turn 2, if trukk is still alive disembark then run d6 and assault 6. That's 12 inches away from table edge from deployment + 19 inches flat out + 13 inches cruising speed + d6 + assault 6 = 51 inches to 56 inches turn 2 assault.
Even if trukk doesn't make it to turn 2, I will immediately disembark from a destroyed vehicle, then move 6, run d6 and assault 6 turn 2. This gives me 44 to 49 inches from my table edge to assault something.

Trukk w/ red paint job, stikkbomb, and reinforced ram costs me 50 pts.

FNP doesn't help vs Instant Death, so you only get a 5+ invu vs TH/SS Termies.

As far as I can tell, the greatest advantage meganobz have, is that they can be effective even in extremely small squads (3-4 models).

recently played another game against Eldar... This presented their biggest strength and weakness...

Strength: with Ghazghkull I was able to move 6+2" out of my transport and assault his entire frontline... on the second turn... This meant blowing up all of his wave serpents and killing all his Wraithguard...

Weakness: With only a 5++ save the entire team went down to 2 6 man squads of Shining Spears... Those spears did their job and made me roll a lot of 5++ save which I failed... In addition the S8 "Sergeant" killed a Meganob with a single failed save...

Conclusion... By relying on my MANS with Ghazghlull and Grotsnik,I have to hit my opponent's front line and destroy a lot of transports and MC or hit tie up the entire army so boyz can join the fight or claim objectives...

I would like to point out that while I prefer MANS as the core of my army, I think complex nobz are great.
My argument is about throwing on Invulnerable saves and call them better than MANS because they are "complex" yet cost 100 points more, and +1 Ws...

My only concern is, without spending an additional 50 points on an invulnerable save... the unit cannot stand up to assault terminators...

You made a lot of points, I'll try to cover what I can.

QuietOrkmi wrote:8 Nobs, 4 pk and 4 big choppa, 1 waaagh banner, 8 heavy armor, 8 cybork bodies
1 painboy, heavy armor and grot orderly
1 warboss, big choppa, heavy armor, cybork, and attack squig
total points - 535 pts

Not sure who posted this particular combination of wargear, but it sucks. It's not complex at all! Look at the wargear combination I posted above, you get a 4+/5++, FNP, and the entire squad is complex. It also comes out at more than 100 points cheaper than your MANS, which you can then use to buy a KFF Mek that Mech lists need so badly.

Also not sure why anyone would suggest or consider adding a Warboss into this unit when Ghazghull is already there.

Personally, I'd rather have a 5++ rather than a 4+. Being a Complex squad and with FNP they're already tough as hell against small arms fire, so if you're looking to shed points I would drop the 'eavy armour.

I have never seen someone take Assault terminators that take all TH/SS, I see an 4/1 split between Lighting claws (4+ reroll to wound, Hitting on 4+)... If you get the assault on them they will swing with 3 attacks each...

Do you mean 4 x TH/SS and 1 x TLC? Or the other way around?

Yes, You only need 1 MANS to touch 1 Marine to bring in the Squad...

Correct. However the entire squad must retain coherency, and you must get into base contact with as many models as possible. All this with only 8 models and generally less than 6" assault move. If you're regularly multi-assaulting 3-4 units at time you may be doing it wrong, unless you're opponents bunch their units together like crazy.

In the end it's your call of course. The only reason I am harping on about these Nobs is I keep hearing things like "but complex Nobs are too expensive" or "regular Nobs don't have invulnerable saves" from you which simply isn't true. More things to consider.

Do you mean 4 x TH/SS and 1 x TLC? Or the other way around?

I meant for 4 lightning claws for every 1 Thunderhammer & Storm Shield. So a total of 8 lightning claws and 2 Thunderhammer & Storm Shield.

Correct. However the entire squad must retain coherency, and you must get into base contact with as many models as possible. All this with only 8 models and generally less than 6" assault move. If you're regularly multi-assaulting 3-4 units at time you may be doing it wrong, unless you're opponents bunch their units together like crazy.

Just a small corrections, there are 10 models in the unit, you forgot Grotsnik and Ghazghkull.

Personally, I'd rather have a 5++ rather than a 4+. Being a Complex squad and with FNP they're already tough as hell against small arms fire, so if you're looking to shed points I would drop the 'eavy armour.

The 5++ save is only superior only when fighting a unit filled with power weapons or S8 attacks. Otherwise it may never see any action. If the mentioned unit is avoided, then the ~50 points shed should be the Cybork bodies.

Remember: Your Nobz are in a Battlewagon and therefore not being fired at with AP4 shots. If the Battlewagon is destroyed, the Nobz benefit from a 4+ cover save from being in area terrain.

However the point of this unit was to go up against "super units" and super units are defined as having lots of attacks, at a high initiative, may insta-kill T4 models, and ignore FNP along with armor saves. In addition, the "Super Unit" typically has a 2+ to a 3+ armor save and is backed by a 3++ or 4++ save.

My only argument for the MANS over the complex Nobz is that every model left standing is another 3 to 4 S8 attacks while in complex Nobz, this is not completely the case. The WS5 does even out the amount of attacks vs amount that hit for the first round, however once the Complexity of the unit has been chewed threw I fear that the advantage will shift back to the MANS.

Another difference is the presence of Grotsnik, as he makes the unit fearless. Being fearless is not a pain when you have a 2+ armor save backed by FNP.

In the end it's your call of course. The only reason I am harping on about these Nobs is I keep hearing things like "but complex Nobs are too expensive" or "regular Nobs don't have invulnerable saves" from you which simply isn't true. More things to consider.

In my opinion the complex Nobz are the right price... you drop Grotsnik and the Manz for the Complex Nobz (taking Cybork bodies instead of 'Eavy armor) and throw in a Mek with a KFF. The bill comes down to 520 for grotsnik and MANS against 491 for Complex Nobz and KFF.

With the 29 points freed up, I could see everyone getting the reinforced ram they need. With 4 points left I could just give Ghazghkull an ammo runt...