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I'm gearing up for a 2v2 game where I will be playing half of a WAAAGH! against a combined force of IG and SW. I figure I'll need something that can cross the table quickly and tie up units to give da boyz time to close the gap and krump some 'eads. So I'm curious what any other ork players think is a suitable unit to get the job done. Da warboss is countin' on you lads!

Stormboyz can get that job done, a little on the expensive side though. DeffKoptas are always a good choice (all TL Rokkits, witha Buzzsaw or 2), good for Anti tank. not sure how they would fair trying to tie up a unit.

Bikers and deffkoptas are always a good choice. Koptas will draw fire and tough to kill as are bikers. It reaaly depends on the setup of your list. Never really seen anyone use stormboyz so cant comment on them.

Kaltak wrote:Stormboyz can get that job done, a little on the expensive side though. DeffKoptas are always a good choice (all TL Rokkits, witha Buzzsaw or 2), good for Anti tank. not sure how they would fair trying to tie up a unit.

Koptas sound good. I know the IG player I'm going against is a fiend for artillery. The koptas will definitely help reduce the rain of template hits that would otherwise cause many un-orky tears from the boyz.

As far as mixing it up with the shooty infantry on the other team would I be better off saving a few points on Stormboyz and using infiltrated Kommandos instead? Or is it best to just save a -load of points and send some grots up front to bullet sponge?

Bullet sponge. Better to run a screen then have something come in late in the game.

Deffkopta w/ rokkits and buzzsaw makes for a nasty early game surprise for tanks. Can also tarpit a shooty unit for a turn or two as well (don't forget it has Hit & Run if you want to withdraw, shoot, and charge again). Has turboboost (works with scout), T5, 2 wounds, 4+ armor, 4+ cover save. Great unit all around.

Warbuggies are fragile, but cheap. I haven't had much success with them as yet, but a 3-buggy unit with TL Rokkits is only 105 points (120 for skorchas). Not much of a gamble, either.

Stormboyz can be good, if you give them some cover, to make a quick assault, but really, not much better than trukk boyz at that job, if at all.

Warbikes are expensive, but the T5 from the bike, plus the 4+ armor and 4+ cover save gives them some decent survivability. Turbo boost gives you lots of speed (and 3+ cover save, though IG & SM both have options that eliminate the speed-based cover save). They shoot quite well once in range and are competent in melee.

Overall, I'd rank them:

Deffkoptas
Warbikes
Stormboyz
Warbuggies

As far as Snikrot/Kommandos go, they can be a fun surprise to sneak in on your opponent's back table edge. He can rip rear armor fairly well, or they can burna a couple IG heavy weapon teams, or assault some devastators... Lots of uses for him, plus he forces your enemies to deploy away from the table edge for fear of his carnage. Not a FA, but serves a similar purpose.

Good luck, my green brotha.

LeperMessiah wrote:...Has turboboost (works with scout), T5, 2 wounds, 4+ armor, 4+ cover save. Great unit all around.

4+ cover save? How? Bikes have the Exhaust Cloud special rule, but Deffkoptas do not.

I believe the turn they turboboost is when they get a cover save.

I'd go for Deff Koptas and Stormboyz, if for no other reason than they look cool.

Thanks for all the advice. Deffkoptas are sounding like the best option all around. I think I'll focus my fast attack strategy on them. I may also throw in a squad of Stormboyz or Kommandos if I have the points just because I've never used them before and I'd like to see how they operate.

I'd say that Deffkoptas are good, but not great.
Given the Errata/FAQ ruling, if you get to go first, then they have a 42" charge range, can shoot TL rokkits, and benefit from a 3+ cover save from your opponent's next shooting.

The problem is that they can't really tie up anything serious. You can take a max of 5 of them in a unit, and they're just regular orks on the charge. Which means they're best for popping light to mid vehicles. Even with Buzzsaws (which are expensive) they're only STR 7 which isn't great anti-vehicle. They have leadership problems. All in all they're mainly just a fire and forget unit, or a hard to pin down TL rokkit unit. And for anti-light vehicle you're probably better off taking equal points in Lootas (though, they're the opposite of fast. )

If you just want the TL Rokkits, taking naked Warbuggies with them is probably your cheapest option.

While I'd love to field Storm Boyz, they are the second most expensive of the boyz, and the least shooty.

I'm tempted to put some Warbikers in, since I just recently found out that they are errata'd to have TL Dakkaguns, but they are by far the most expensive.

Since you want them to tarpit a unit until the rest of your army footslogs it there, then you want a unit that can stick around, and take a few hits. Sounds like the warbikers might be your best bet. Also, they are the most expensive. :/

D'Ork wrote:

LeperMessiah wrote:...Has turboboost (works with scout), T5, 2 wounds, 4+ armor, 4+ cover save. Great unit all around.

4+ cover save? How? Bikes have the Exhaust Cloud special rule, but Deffkoptas do not.

You're right, my bad. They just have the 3+ turboboost save. Still, unless they are shooting, they are turboboosting when I use 'em.

I'm gonna throw in a vote for Warbikes here. In my opinion, they are an excellent choice. You are basically buying, for 25 points, an 'Ard Slugga Boy with a TL Heavy Bolter, that gets to move 12" every turn and assault after firing. Sounds pretty damn good to me!

Here's a list of assets;

-T5, 4+ save almost all the time. This makes them extremely difficult to kill with anything other than ordnance, and if they're absorbing ordnance then your vehicles and boyz aren't.

-TL Assault 3 S5 guns. This works out to about 1.5 hits per turn per bike, with a 30" effective range. This means a six-man Warbike squad will, on average, land 9 S5 hits per turn, making them excellent infantry hunters.

-Can take a PK/BP Nob. This makes them very resilient morale-wise, which would otherwise be a problem with the small squad size of Warbikers, and gives them AT capacity.

Here's the squad I would recommend;

6 Warbikes
-PK/BP Nob

Comes to only 190 points. You get 18 TL S5 shots with effective range 30", 20 S4 WS 4 attacks and 4 S9 PK attacks on the charge, and you will ALWAYS get the charge because you are moving 12" per turn. This unit is perfectly capable of massacring infantry, assassinating characters and smashing tanks. Because it's so tough and gets to re-roll morale, it also makes a wonderful bullet sponge.

Alternatively, you can take a squad of three with a PK/BP Nob (115 pts) and use it as a suicide anti-tank squad, or go the opposite route, take a full-size squad (340 pts) and use it as a line-breaker. A twelve-man squad of Warbikers will be able to shoot forward on turn 1 and claim a 3+ cover save, then on turn two close in, blast their target with a hurricane of TL S5 shots, and crash into assault with up to 48 attacks. THe only thing that can reliably survive that kind of assault is a Land Raider.

Bikes are sounding better and better to me

I am actually considering an all-bike army. This is the list I'm thinking of;

HQ

Wazdakka Gutsmek

Elites

4x Nob Bikers
2x PK
1x Big Choppa
Waagh! Banner
Painboy
4x Cybork Bodies

Troops

12x Warbikers
Nob w/ BC, Bosspole

12x Warbikers, BC/BP

8x Warbikers, PK/BP

8x Warbikers, PK/BP

8x Warbikers, PK/BP


That comes out to exactly 1850 points. Here's my thinking;

Wazdakka and the Nob Bikers deploy together. They're a pretty tough unit; all T5 (except Wazdakka, he's T6), Invulnerable save, cover save, FNP, fairly lethal at range and even better in close combat. They are essentially Land Raider hunters, able to drop 13 S9 PK attacks on the charge; and since they're big models that have a long movement range, I can probably arrange them to surround the Raider and use placement rules to kill off what's inside at the same time.

The 12-man Warbiker squads are my infantry hunters. They are designed to target the enemy troops and kill them, but against mech they're still marginally useful because they can drop S7 Big Choppa hits on rear armor. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

The 8-man squads are used to target anything else. They can kill infantry or tanks, and move to support either the Nob Bikers or the beefier troop-killing squads.

Wazdakka is S4 base, so unfortunately he only gets a S9 PK.

Don't really see the point of using big choppas instead of PKs on th e two nobs :s

D'oh! You're right. Still, that's 13 S9 PK attacks, nothing to sneeze at.

The Big Choppas are purely a point-saving measure; PKs would put me at 1890 points, which is in the awkward place where dropping a pair of Bikers leaves me 10 points under, and I have nothing to substitute. So I just took the Big Choppas; they work just fine for anti-infantry, they just don't have the same utility against Termies and vehicles. I shall simply keep my larger squads away from such things.

I'm a big fan of bikes. They are far from the best unit in the codex but they are pretty nasty, flexible and useful for any ork tactician. In fact they are one of the units i can point to in my list and state with conviction that they won me a game.

In fact in one case a tournament game, well not win but one lone bike who refused to run and passed many, many cover saves after pretty much an entire blood angel army shot him was literally one of only 2 models left in my army, contesting an objective and turned what would have been a massacre for my opponent into a minor victory (and had my nobz maddok not legged it, a draw).

Sadly my local gaming group absolutely despises them. From situations like the above and the number of times they have done something horrible, unexpected and damaging the local players here have made them priority number one. So now they tend to get shot at, a lot, in turn 1 then turn around and leg it and never re-group.

Leadership is easily their biggest issue, along with being bogged down. Attaching a biker boss can help a lot with both.

I use them primarily to go eat vehicles, go eat rearguard shooting units or to support a charge with another unit. Charging on their own is fine against a lot of things but 10 man marine squads and anything decent in combat will bog them down so you need to use them in combined charges most of the time.

Their guns are fantastic too and really surprise people.




For the OP if you want a fast unit to tie up the enemy in the first few turns then either trukkboyz or bikes are probably best. Koptaz are great but their suicide units and should be used mainly to buzzsaw a tank turn 1. Stormboyz do what trukk boyz do but worse for more pts. Kommandos with snikrot are awesome but might not make it their quickly.

But the grot screen will keep your advancing boyz alive better than any of these options.

After reading this thread, Im now tempted to try out a 6-boy Biker squad with PK/BP nob. Especially since with my list gunline IG armies are one of my biggest weaknesses.

Well after the thorough arguments from BeRzErKeR and bravelybravesirrobin I think I may have to lean towards the bikers. The reduced points compared to koptas paired with the constant exhaust cloud save makes me think they should be great options for wreaking havoc on the IG lines while my grot shielded boyz can close ranks.

From a Guard player's perspective, the bikers are the scarier option. Deffkoptas are a LOT easier to pop with Chimera- and squad-based heavy weapons, whereas Bikers are fast, tough to kill, and a major threat in CC. The Bikers are far more likely to tie up an army as they sweat over how to deal with them.

When I first read this thread I was going to write "Deffkoptas, hands down" but after reading the posts here I´m definately trying out warbikers!

With that said, I like what the Deffkoptas do for my army. They create a distraction that my opponent has to deal with, which results in fewer shots going into my boyz, and can take out tanks real quick to boot! They ensure that I have constant pressure on my opponent from turn 1. First the Deffkoptas go in, then comes the Trukks and Battlewagons, and last the big throng of boyz sloggin it across the field. It has worked for me every time.

Deffkoptas, Warbikers and Snikrot-led Kommandos are all good against IG, so go with what you like the most

Personally I much prefer warbikers over deffkoptas, but typically I don't field anything from the Ork fast attack section in my footslogger lists. Deffkoptas are easy KP. Warbikers are fun to use but actually somewhat fragile due to morale. Stormboyz are cool but again fragile. Warbuggies are easy KP.

As far as fast options go, the competitive ways to incorporate speed is with battlewagons or nob bikers.

Koptas are suicide units - they'll zoom in, hopefully blow something up (worth more than their own points cost) and probably die in your opponent's next round of shooting. So long as you play them accordingly, they're fine.

No one above seems too keen on buggies, but don't write them off - they are a bit more survivable than koptas, and twin-linked big shootas provide some nice mobile long range shooting that's difficult to find elsewhere in the list. If you can keep them in cover, they can provide a nice harassment unit and make their points back. Depends on how crowded your gaming tables tend to be, i guess...

Regarding the title of this thread rather than the OP I figured I'd do a quick run down of the pros and cons of each choice

Buggies with big shoota

Pros: cheap, good range, manouverable, useful for moving away from the enem and putting out hurt,
Cons: fragile, easy KP, extra anti-infantry isn't something orks need particularly

Buggies with rokkits

Pros: cheap, manouverable, more accurate than most rokkits in the list, can easily get side/rear shots to help improve chances
Cons: Fragile, easy KP, just 1 str 8 shot doesn't guarantee much

Skorchas

Pros: cheap, manouverable, very fast, heavy flamer has ap and ignores cover making it a very useful tool for clearing units out of cover and dealing with 4+ save units both things orks could do with a hand in
Cons: fragile, easy KP, short range means it is easy to kill before it does anything, while useful more anti-infantry tools are not that essential

Deffkoptaz

Pros: cheap (relative to other units in the codex), packs impressive firepower regardless of the gun they are equipped with, scout + turboboost allows for 1st turn charges, outflank, turboboost for last turn objective grabs, buzzsaws make great tankbusters, big bombs for infantry clearing, can be equipped to be multi-purpose, assault allows it to tie up backfield units, hit and run lets it be really annoying, manouverable, can easily get side/rear shots to help with tankbusting, ignore terrain
Cons: Fragile, possibly more fragile than the buggies vs high str weapons, in groups bigger than 1 ld is a serious issue, buzzsaw is expensive and only str 6/7, expensive relaive to other options in fast attack and for the fragility, hit and run doesn't really work due to low init, reliant on luck (either first turn or getting the right outflank roll), harder to hide than buggies

Bikes

Pros: a bargain for their statline, guns are awesome at infantry killing, decent in cc, p-klaw at str 9 is an excellent tankbuster, always on cover save + turboboost, + t5 + av4 makes them amongst the most survivable units in the codex, turboboost for last turn objective grabs, fast speed almost guarantees a turn 2 charge, will win cc against most backfield threats, access to a bosspole, can bodyguard a biker boss for improved ld, cc power and tankbusting power, guns make them a good harrassment unit, the fastest assault unit for redploying due to turboboost, flexibility to take on infantry and tanks in assault or shooting.

Cons: bad ld (although not as bad as the koptas), small size makes them vulnerable to being bogged down, very vulnerable to heavy flamers, middling pts cost for offensive output, although good for their pts they don't excel in any one clear role and other units in the codex are more pts efficient at a defined role


Stormboyz

Pros: Very, very fast gaining a potential 1st turn charge and a virtually guaranteed 2nd turn charge, hit like slugga boyz, big squad size means they can be fearless, nob is good for tank hunting, able to pick combats and likely to win against most opponents, ignore terrain.
Cons: very expensive for their offensive output (2 x a boyz cost), very expensive for their defensive ability (no better than a slugga for twice the pts) outside of a lucky 1st turn charge they're not really faster than trukkboyz for a high pts premium, hard to hide to gain cover




None of these are really bad but they all have very different uses. IMHO their main roles are

rokkit buggy - drive around trying to pop vehicles, last turn objective dash

skorcha - drive forward, burn fragile things, scare things out of cover, hide behind trukks and emerge to support a trukk boy charge, last turn objective dash

deffkopta - buzzsaw in a unit of 1 1st turn charge and kill a tank before going in flames, alternatively 1st turn charge a shooty squad to tie them up, try and hit and run and charge them again. If you want them for the rokkits go with the cheaper buggy.

stormboyz - if running horde and you want a fast unit to do the same job as trukk boyz (but you don't want trukks) then these are your lads, get them stuck in asap and repeat until they fade away.

Big Shoota buggies are for orks who want to pretend to be eldar and spend the game moving away from their opponent and firing.

Bikers have a less defined role than the others. Because they're flexible you can always find them some kind of job to do, go tank hunting, support another unit with guns and a charge, last turn objective grabs, tying up shooty units for the rest of the orks on the way, reserve counter-charge unit. They'll do all of these things reasonably well.




Also although I'm glad I inspired some people to try bikers I should stress that I think they're far from an uber choice. There are beither a unit that is so good at what they do that you have to have them (i.e. nobz) or a unit that is really pts efficient for a specific role (battlewagon, boyz). Rather they're pretty good at a lot of things and so you can usually find something they can do to enhance your army.

Just to add a little bit about the Kommandos, since you mentioned that you were considering them as well: they make a terrific threat if you play them up a bit.

What I mean by that is that a squad of kommandos with snikrot can be a very good psycholigical weapon. Make sure you layout his squad early; maybe place it on their side of the table and casually examine the table from your opponents side. One of your opponents is IG ... make sure you ask him about the rear AV on all of his artillery. Once he has his artillery on the table, go and look closely again at the table from his side. You dont need to say anything (unless he asks), just make sure that he sees you lining up your kommando atttack. Sometimes you can get a player to completely redo his deployment just trying to avoid your kommandos. Ideally he will move away from his back table edge -- and move closer to your incoming boyz horde.


Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:Just to add a little bit about the Kommandos, since you mentioned that you were considering them as well: they make a terrific threat if you play them up a bit.

What I mean by that is that a squad of kommandos with snikrot can be a very good psycholigical weapon. Make sure you layout his squad early; maybe place it on their side of the table and casually examine the table from your opponents side. One of your opponents is IG ... make sure you ask him about the rear AV on all of his artillery. Once he has his artillery on the table, go and look closely again at the table from his side. You dont need to say anything (unless he asks), just make sure that he sees you lining up your kommando atttack. Sometimes you can get a player to completely redo his deployment just trying to avoid your kommandos. Ideally he will move away from his back table edge -- and move closer to your incoming boyz horde.


Sliggoth

You sir are a twisted deviant. I like the way you think.

Personally Im not a big fan of stormboyz. They are too easy to get to far ahead and then get crunched.
The army Id be worrying about is the SW. Those guys have a nasty habit of just popping up, and they are really good in CC.
Deffkoptas are always rockin IMO. use the twin linked rokkits to your advantage, they can really throw some fire power at your enemy, and being as fast as they are, AND scouting, they can hurt things and scare your opponents.
And kommandos are a GREAT unit. So using the scouting deffkoptas, along with the kommandos just showing up to say hey, will really mess with your opponents.

Id agree on taking out the artillery possibly first. Or try and keep your boyz in CC so those artillery guns arnt shooting at you, but that could also work against you.