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I've been playing and collecting 40k stuff for a long time. Not RT era long time, but the mid 90s. I'm also one of those vets that has been steadily disappointed with every new rules release from GW since then. It was only when I started playing Warmachine that I figured out what the problem is: Rule should make models feel valuable, not reduce their value so you need to buy more and more of them.

GW's plastic models have gotten better and better (with the notable exception of the new WFB beasts perhaps?). When I started my tyranids during 2nd edition, a Tyranid Warrior was $16 in the local currency and was a pretty ugly metal model. The current Tyranid Warriors are amazing miniatures that are $14 each. There are lots of examples where the combination of currency conversion changes and the switch to plastics amounts to better models for less money.

During GW's most rapid growth from a smaller UK based company into an international giant, their rules required a lower model count and each model did more. 2nd edition 40k and 4th edition WFB were far from perfect though-- that's the era that the term "HeroHammer" comes from. Right now Privateer Press is going through record growth using the same model GW did-- rules where individual models feel valuable while units of troopers are still viable as well. And they're doing it without falling into the "HeroHammer" trap. So I'm covered for fantasy. Lots of GW's plastics are very suitable for use in Warmachine given the right equipment. For mass battle games, GW figures work fine for excellent rules like Hordes of the Things, Fantasy Rules! TCE and others.

But what about the awesome fictional world that is the 41st Millennium?

I'm going to start testing out different miniature rules. The game will be focused on smaller forces with each model in the force doing more. A tank showing up should be a big deal. Monstrous creatures should be rightly feared. The genetically engineered supersoldiers that make up the Adeptus Astartes should feel like they do in the stories. Psykers and Sorcerers should be able to bend reality through their access to the warp.

How will this impact my spending? I'm likely going to be buying more stuff. It won't be a huge investment to buy into a new army. So instead of spending 400+ on a single army, I can buy 3 or 4 armies. The armies will also be a lot more story based. Individual troopers will earn their glory and be remembered.

My prime directive for miniature wargaming has always been to Use the miniatures you want, with the rules you want.. I think I've finally figured out what I want out of a game set in the 40k universe.

Rules to be tested out:

Pinnacle Entertainment Group's Savage Worlds Showdown - An adaptation of their Savage Worlds RPG system to miniature gaming. Also integrates really well into more story based play as you can use their RPG material. Has a customizable troop/army building system: Free PDF:
http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/Showdown/Showdown.pdf
http://www.peginc.com/downloads.html

5150 from Twohourwargames.com - An excellent sci-fi adaptation of THW's Origins Award winning reaction system. Also available for free as Chain Reaction 3.0. Also very story based.
http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/free.html
http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/CR3.0.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/5150.htm

Check out Combatzone as well. Quick playing and easy to adapt to whatever setting you choose. Not as much geared toward vehicles and heroes, but every figure counts, and shooting is realistically deadly.

Check out Warengine as well. It's the engine that was used for shockforce, is well regarded, and is available free online. It has a unit builder rubric for building appropriate stats for anything. Many 40k armies already have stats created, but you can modify them to get the feel you are looking for.

Lastly, the InquisMunda ( =I=Munda) threads here give alot of insight on using necro rules as the basis for true skirmish level narrative gaming.

I would recomend trying the original Rogue Trader, it will fit your bill and there's still some of us out there who still play it...
Mick

Rogue trader is an option. It comes up often enough on eBay and PDFs of discontinued games abound on the internet if you know where to look. I'm not really expecting RT to be better than 5150/CR3 though because Twohourwargames.com stuff is amazing for skirmish play. Twohourwargames' stuff also has excellent rules for forces not controlled by a player.

I found another thing that makes this level of gaming work really, really well. Online bitz sellers. Between Hoard O Bits and Blackdagger Games (both on eBay-- change the .com to .ca or .co.uk or whatever is appropriate for your locale), I can get most plastic miniatures and parts. Blackdagger even sells single miniatures from most of the plastic kits. So if I'm doing a skirmish game where I don't need 20 guardsmen, I can buy two or three and arm them appropriately.

As much as the old RT era models have nostalgia value, I think the newer stuff is a lot better. And easier to get.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eilif wrote:Lastly, the InquisMunda ( =I=Munda) threads here give alot of insight on using necro rules as the basis for true skirmish level narrative gaming.

I started reading the relevant threads here and elsewhere on the net about this. Interesting stuff. Might be a good way to go.

I contacted some friends and after our next gaming night, I'm going to have access to ALL of the Rogue Trader era stuff as well as the 1st through 3rd editions of Warhammer Fantasy. I have all the 2nd ed stuff. So I'm going to have plenty of resources for figuring out this high value skirmish gaming thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another rules Candidate:

SuperSystem 3rd Edition by Four Color Figs/Bluemoon. -- It's a highly detailed skirmish game meant for playing Super Hero miniature games. Between it's henchmen rules and the toolkit approach where you can build literally anything, it's a prime candidate for wargaming in the 41st Millenium with a lower figure count. I bought the 3rd edition PDF from Sabersedge.com

This has a ton of potential.