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This has been discussed a bit in response to my last batrep, but I'm interested in what folks had to say. Here's the setup that took place


X ( ::::: Y Y )

X is vampire lord on abyssal terror (a large target)
each dot is a quarreler, each Y is a bolt thrower.
the ( ) represent that the Quarrelers and Bolt Throwers are on a hill.

There were various things in between, but no other large targets or anything to block LOS from a hill.

The question is: Can the bolt throwers, see the vampire lord to shoot at him? If they were on flat ground and the vamp lord was too, they could see the vamp because he's a large target and they can ignore anything in the way. If the lord were not a large target, they could not see to shoot him because their LOS is blocked by the quarrelers, which are also on a hill and able to block them. However, which is more important in this case... the lord's large-target-ness or the fact that the BTs are blocked by the quarrelers (and the right-hand one is blocked by another BT)

If you've read my report, you know that we decided to play it that the monster could be shot, after which my ninja bolt thrower crews sniped his lord right off the terror and won me the game. I'm interested in how others have played similar situations and what you think.

Thanks!

I do not think the bolt thrower is blocked at all by the quarrelers.

The ruling is that even a 2nd rank of archers/gunners can fire when shooting from a hill (even at normal targets).

The abstract being that a hill is not entirely flat, and you could easily take up positions that would give you line of sight
to targets below.

The counter to this is that being on a hill means you also are able to be shot at by most things.

They cannot see it. The ruling for archers on a hill is due to them taking up a proper firing position amongst each other.

Hills and woods are infinitely tall and cannot be seen over.

If you have 2 units on a hill, the unit in the rear cannot see anything beyond the backside of the forward unit. To that same end the large target cannot see them.

Hills do not grant you Large Target LoS. If they did it would be specified in the BRB.

That makes more sense then what I had said.

I say go with what he says

Have to disagree.

1. The rules for terrain and LOS in the rulebook are not very clear, at best. If you actually read them, the implication most of them is True LOS, believe it or not. There are a few specifically stated abstractions, such as the rules for seeing in, out, and across woods, and the rule that a unit on a hill (or “elevated ground”) can see and be seen over units not on a hill. Also the rules for Large Target LOS (to and from). Nowhere in the rules are hills or woods specifically defined as being infinitely tall, though it is a nearly-universal convention, accepted by almost all WH players the world ‘round, for simplicity and because it allows us to model flat, physically-low hills which are easier to use with ranked units of miniatures.
2. Because of the above, the exact interaction of the Large Target LOS rules with hills and woods is not explicitly defined in the rules. However, because of the near-universal convention that hills and woods are infinitely tall, in nearly every place you play, you will find that you are forbidden from drawing LOS to any unit on ground level, including a Large Target, across a hill, from another unit on the ground. So if the bolt throwers had been on the ground, they would have had no shot, the way nearly every WH player I’ve ever met or talked to plays it.
3. Getting to the main question, the Large Target rules DO specifically state that you may draw LOS to and from them over other units. Nothing in the hill rules suggests that being on a hill interferes with the LOS of a unit. So for purposes of three normal-sized units on a hill drawing LOS to a Large Target not on the hill, there should be no problem, unless a different hill or wood is between them and their intended target.

Though I can understand other playing conventions, unless specifically worked out prior to the game, I believe Mannahin has it correct.

RZ