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Hey all,

I am putting together a unit of bikers at the moment, and have always planned to have 2 units of 6, each with a power klaw nob.

The more I think about it though I am considering just having 1 massive squad of 12 bikers with a nob, and sticking a warboss in there too.

What would people advise with regards to 1 large squad or 2 medium ones?

2 Units of biker's is better, cause you can bring more claws on the table, and you may charge 2 units at once, regardless of only one.

also i will better recommend you to have 1 6mans+painboy squad of Nob biker's with Warboss then 20 normal biker's

Bikers are quite a bit more expensive than their stat line deserves. You are paying double the cost of a stormboy for +1 toughness, 4+ saves, more susceptibility to terrain, and a shorter assault range. I honestly doubt that you'll ever see a group of warbikers perform as well as 4x as many regular boyz, which is exactly what you are sacrificing to float the bill on the bikers. If I had to rate your options for assault squads amongst your regular Str 4 assaults with a single imbedded klaw, it would be something like:

1. Boyz (particularly in a vehicle)
2. Stormboyz
3. Anything else
17. Warbikers

It's a risk/reward situation for sure. Bikers will not get the Fearless rule unless you're full size, but that won't last too long, so go you're better off keeping the squads smaller to minimize run-off when you get whittled down. This gets you more PKs and also lets you shoot more targets. People forget how awesome the twin-linked dakkaguns can be in conjunction with an assault. If a unit's too large, sometimes the shooting can be TOO good and a smart player will take enough front casualties to remove you from charge range.

I cannot emphasize enough how incredibly devastating the full nob biker squad can be. 10-man squad w/ diversified wargear, joined by a biker boss, can annihilate entire armies by themselves. There is no better combination of high toughness, cover saves, speed, lots of wounds, power klaw attacks, and good shooting out there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Carnuss wrote:Bikers are quite a bit more expensive than their stat line deserves. You are paying double the cost of a stormboy for +1 toughness, 4+ saves, more susceptibility to terrain, and a shorter assault range. I honestly doubt that you'll ever see a group of warbikers perform as well as 4x as many regular boyz, which is exactly what you are sacrificing to float the bill on the bikers. If I had to rate your options for assault squads amongst your regular Str 4 assaults with a single imbedded klaw, it would be something like:

1. Boyz (particularly in a vehicle)
2. Stormboyz
3. Anything else
17. Warbikers

Bikers are taken for theme, for sure, not points effectiveness. But don't underestimate a 4+ cover save (3+ when turboboosting), 4+ armor save, the turboboost mobility, and the fact that every one of them has a twin-linked big shoota to fire on the way in. They won't match up in pure assault with the boyz, but they have their own versatility and their best use is rushing stuff like devastators and tanks hidden deep in the enemy deployment zone.

In an assault, 6 bikers w/ Nob (PK, BP) match up pretty well with a trukk mob (PK, BP, trukk w/ AP, RPJ, Ram) and don't cost much more points (190 vs 160). If they both charge a 10-man tac squad...

Bikers shoot: 18 TL S5, AP5 shots... 10 hits... 6.7 wounds... 2.25 dead marines
Biker assault: 8 marine attacks (2 dead)... 4 hits... 1.33 wounds vs. T5... .667 dead bikers
Biker assault: [take the wound on the nob, so still full strength] 20 slugga/choppa attacks... 10 hits... 5 wounds... 1.665 dead marines... 4 PK attacks... 2 hits... 1.67 dead marines
Net: 1 wound on bikers, 5.6 dead marines

Trukk mob shoot: 12 sluggas... 4 hits... 2 wounds... 0.67 marines dead
Trukk assault: [marines first, assume 1 dead] 9 attack, 4.5 hit, 2.25 wound, 1.875 dead orks. Hit back... 36 choppa attacks, 18 hits, 9 wounds, 3 dead. PK (4/2/1.67)
Net: 2 dead orks, 5.34 dead marines

Basically the same, maybe the bikers have a slight chance to kill 6 marines. Orks win the combat, but if the marines don't run, the bikers have better survival with their T5 and 4+ armor.

My point is that bikers compare reasonably with a trukk mob, but obviously cannot compete against the 30-man horde. If you're going to run Speed Freeks, bikes are not as bad as some would say. It's just that they run a fragile line on leadership and on any day when the 4+ cover save is not going your way, you will have numbers problems.

Carnuss wrote:Bikers are quite a bit more expensive than their stat line deserves. You are paying double the cost of a stormboy for +1 toughness, 4+ saves, more susceptibility to terrain, and a shorter assault range.

You're thinking about it the wrong way. When you buy Warbikers, you are not buying Stormboyz +. You are buying 'Ard Boyz with TL Big Shootas that move 12" per turn. You really cannot underestimate the gun, as it's an important part of the way Warbikers work. A full-size Warbiker squad will land 20 S5 hits per turn, on average (36 * 0.55). That, followed up by an assault, is enough to smash anything but a true deathstar unit.

In addition, the morale issue is not nearly as bad as people think. Just give the Nob a bosspole and you get a reroll, and half the time you don't even take the wound, because you get a 4+ armor save. Rerollable Ld 7 is just as good as Ld 9, so those Warbikers are not likely to run off even when they can't claim the Ork Ld bonus.

I hear you, but at close to 350 points, that's two groups of 20+ boyz w/ nobz and klaws exchanged for what I would argue is an overpriced unit.

If those two groups of boyz were to meander into assault range of the same group of bikes, they could dish out 5 to 6 wounds with shooting and wipe the group in the assault without taking a wound more likely than not.

44 shootaz (no nobz since they swing last) = 132 attacks
66 hits
22 wounds
11 unsaved
Dead group of bikes placed back in container

You could instead argue that you are giving up two groups of trukk boyz, which would also not only handily beat 12 bikes w/ nob, but would do so with the assurance of an almost guaranteed assault bonus (much greater assault range, and near immunity to bikes while mounted), and would again, more likely than not pummel the bikes to the point of their counter attack being irrelevent.

24 shots
8 hits
2.666 wounds
1.333 bikers dead

6 heavy shoota shots
2 hit
1 wound
0.5 bikers dead

22 sluggaz = 88 attacks
44 hits
14.666 wounds
7.333 dead bikers after saves

The bikers fire back, and between the two boyz and the nob, they are only killing ~2 boyz. The boyz nob hits and kills two more bikers.

Bikers lose combat, and the nob now needs to pass a leadership check on a 2 to stick around for another round, which he will assuredly die in.

I hear what you are saying about them having a viable 24" range of delivering tons of str 5 shots. My statement would be that they don't do it at an affordable rate, and their resilience is dreadful for the point cost in comparison with the 'more boyz' philosophy.

On other threads on this board, you can read tyranid players complaining that they were gimped by the Carnifex being bumped up to 170 points, which they consider completely unreasonable for what he delivers. Even at his gimped stat line/cost, 2 of those would outperform bikerz in the two scenarios above by a landslide.

If you like them, field them. They aren't rock solid, aren't the most efficient point for point unit in the codex, and they aren't guaranteed to perform well against equal point cost groups, but they can add flavor if flavor is what you are writing your list for.

Carnuss wrote:I hear you, but at close to 350 points, that's two groups of 20+ boyz w/ nobz and klaws exchanged for what I would argue is an overpriced unit.

If those two groups of boyz were to meander into assault range of the same group of bikes, they could dish out 5 to 6 wounds with shooting and wipe the group in the assault without taking a wound more likely than not.

44 shootaz (no nobz since they swing last) = 132 attacks
66 hits
22 wounds
11 unsaved
Dead group of bikes placed back in container

True, but a well-used squad of Warbikers will 1) Get the first and only shooting phase of the match-up, and 2) Get the charge, not be charged.

With those assumptions, you're looking at a different situation.

First the shooting;

36 Dakkagunz
20 hits
13 wounds
13 dead Orks

That's most of one squad wiped already. Then the Warbikes charge;

11 Warbikers
44 attacks
22 hits
11 wounds
9 wounds through

That mob is massacred. The Warbikers then consolidate somewhere. Where? Doesn't really matter, the other footslogger mob will get a charge if they're within mutual support distance. The Bikers might be able tog et far enough away that the shootas will have to Waagh! to get them, but let's assume not.

First they shoot;

38 shoota shots
13 hits
4.2 wounds
2 dead Warbikers

Then they charge;
57 attacks
29 hits (rounding up from 48.5)
9 wounds (rounding down from 9.5)
5 unsaved wounds (rounding up from 4.5); the Bikers take one wound on the Nob, so 4 die.

5 Warbikers =
15 attacks
8 hits (rounding up from 7.5)
2.7 wounds
2-3 Orks dead

PK Nob
4 attacks
2 hits
1.7 wounds
2 more Warbikers die

PK Biker Nob
4 attacks
2 hits
2 Boyz die

Combat resolution; Warbikers have scored 4-5 wounds, Orks have scored 7. Warbikers almost certainly fall back.

However, the TOTAL kill-count is Warbikers 24, Footsloggers 7. And the first assault was finished off with NO Warbiker casualties at all.

Advantage; Warbikes

Carnuss wrote:



You could instead argue that you are giving up two groups of trukk boyz, which would also not only handily beat 12 bikes w/ nob, but would do so with the assurance of an almost guaranteed assault bonus (much greater assault range, and near immunity to bikes while mounted), and would again, more likely than not pummel the bikes to the point of their counter attack being irrelevent.

24 shots
8 hits
2.666 wounds
1.333 bikers dead

6 heavy shoota shots
2 hit
1 wound
0.5 bikers dead

22 sluggaz = 88 attacks
44 hits
14.666 wounds
7.333 dead bikers after saves

The bikers fire back, and between the two boyz and the nob, they are only killing ~2 boyz. The boyz nob hits and kills two more bikers.

Bikers lose combat, and the nob now needs to pass a leadership check on a 2 to stick around for another round, which he will assuredly die in.

Once again, you are giving a false representation. Trukks by no means have "near immunity" to Bikes. All those S5 shots will deal handily with Av 10. Yes, the Trukkers have a 27" assault range; but the Warbikers have a 30" firing range, and GW has specifically stated that you are allowed to assault dismounted passengers after you destroy their vehicle. If the Warbikers can get within assault range before firing, they will; if not, they will either turbo-boost away or tear the Trukk apart from 18" out. So try it like this;

Warbikers move into assault range, fire at one Trukk.

20 S5 hits, needing a 5 to glance and a 6 to pen = 3 glances and 3 pens. The Trukk is open-topped; it almost certainly is destroyed. Trukk Boyz fall out; we will ignore possible Explosion wounds.

The Warbikers then get to assault the dismounted Trukk Boyz

44 attacks
22 hits
11 wounds
9 dead Boyz

One Boy strikes back, doing no damage, then the PK Nob kills two Warbikers and the Biker Nob gibs him. Alternatively, if you have taken a Big Choppa Nob, the footslogger Nob has about an even chance to die before he gets to strike back.

Carnuss wrote:
I hear what you are saying about them having a viable 24" range of delivering tons of str 5 shots. My statement would be that they don't do it at an affordable rate, and their resilience is dreadful for the point cost in comparison with the 'more boyz' philosophy.

On other threads on this board, you can read tyranid players complaining that they were gimped by the Carnifex being bumped up to 170 points, which they consider completely unreasonable for what he delivers. Even at his gimped stat line/cost, 2 of those would outperform bikerz in the two scenarios above by a landslide.

That is because you are ignoring shooting. Bikes pump out a LOT more fire than Carnifexes. In fact, I would back a 5-man Biker squad with a PK Nob (165 points) against a Carnifex, for precisely that reason.

Bikers actually have a 30" effective range, not 24"; 12" move + 18" guns. However, funnily enough I partially agree with you; Bikes are not terribly efficient at anti-horde work. They work, but there are other options that are more efficient. Where they really shine is in smaller squads, against mech armies.

Why? Because they can turbo-boost, and they come with tons of S5 shots, to which you can add a S9 PK.

Turn 1; 6-8 man Warbike squads turbo-boost up the flanks and laugh at enemy fire with their T5, 3+ cover save. If the other guy devotes a TON of fire to killing them, he will; but that means he's not shooting at your other stuff, which means the rest of the horde will give him a solid kicking.

Turn 2; The bikes swing in behind your opponents transports and rip them up with fire; a 6-strong squad will get 3 damage results on average, because rear armor is almost always 10 for transports. Then you charge the dismounted infantry. Other fast units also arrive in combat this turn, causing general havoc and dismay.

Turn 3; The rest of the army arrives just as your opponent is starting to clean up the Warbikes, and hopefully kicks his ass up between his ears.

Meh... I can't argue anyone into hating a unit they love. I would stand by my statement, which I've placed below for convenience.

"My statement would be that they don't do it at an affordable rate, and their resilience is dreadful for the point cost in comparison with the 'more boyz' philosophy."

I do not field warbikers, so all I can offer is the math above for why I don't. I realized as I was writing it that arguing over who is going to win a fight when you are talking about units with furious charge tends to amount to "who ever shot then assaulted won", and can therefore be posed back and forth as hypotheticals argued either way. I can say that if you turbo boosted up the field with a biker list on turn 1 as you describe against a mech ork list, the bikers would be isolated, and probably targeted and killed by vehicle drop off assaults on your opponent's turn 1. Could that be avoided? With 24" turbo boost, I guess you could move wherever you wanted to avoid it. Other options are out there as well.

My bikers from my battleforce sets have a couple of places of honor, as they were used as painting practice prior to me taking a stab at painting my Warboss on a bike, and several bikes were plopped under nobz to make nob bikers. I typically don't field either of those units anymore either, so they are all in a battleforce box sitting neatly on a shelf somewhere in the basement (I think it's the guest room, but who knows...). It's too bad, too, because the Forge World biker boss looks awesome!

I played around with warbikers for awhile. They're a solid, fun unit to use but aren't as competitive as other options, especially in 5th edition where regular boyz can run. Warbikers do shoot incredibly well though and if you skirt them around the sides of an opponent's flank with your assault units coming up the middle they make for great skirmishers. They aren't good enough to make it into my competitve lists but I field them often in casual games just because they're fun.

As far as setup goes, I like the 12 warbikers for the resilience. Running less works well with a warboss joined to the squad to keep their morale in line, but running squads of 6 means that you're rolling a 50/50 chance morale check from someone rolling good with a couple heavy bolters. Thing is, warbikers are really more of a shooting unit that can assault while the warboss is an assault unit that can shoot. Taking the warboss instead of more bikers makes the unit less resilient but better at morale and much worse at shooting.

Still, when I field warbikers they tend to handle themselves reasonably well.

Thanks all, I am gonna go with 9 bikers for now I think and get a squad of NobBikers in a bit.

What do people reccomend with reards to squad size and how to arm them? I was thinking 6 of them, 3 with PK, 2 Big Chopp and 1 normal.

mikeyboyj wrote:Thanks all, I am gonna go with 9 bikers for now I think and get a squad of NobBikers in a bit.

What do people reccomend with reards to squad size and how to arm them? I was thinking 6 of them, 3 with PK, 2 Big Chopp and 1 normal.

I'd say give the normal one a Big Choppa, it makes him better against the kind of hard targets you'll be throwing Nob Bikers at. Also, make sure that you have a Painboy and a Waagh! Banner in that lot. FNP can save your bacon, and WS5 (6 for the Warboss) makes your Nobz hit on 3s against MEQs, which is extremely valuable.