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This is a question about another new Nidz character that can effect units in vehicles that are tying to outflank. Now what happen when a unit in a vehicle outflanks and loses a quater of your unit and they failed their morale test.

1 Does the unit in the vehicle are unaffected by this ability?
2 Does the unit in the vehicle are affect and as to fall back?

There is no RaW answer.

Gwar! wrote:There is no RaW answer.

? really gwar ... Raw would be they suffer a morral test and fall back. (since the transport has move) they would just dissembark and fall back the next movement phase as normal ... unless you feel that falling back ovrides the transport rules then 2d6" as normal.

Because falling back does not let you disembark from vehicles. It's the same situation as the PlasmaGunner causing the unit to fall back is it not?

From memory anyway, am at work and don't have the rules to hand

The thing is since it only effects a single model in the outflanking unit how are you losing 25%? What unit can outflank in a transport and be 4 models or less? Probably why there is no answer for this since I'm pretty sure it can't happen.

Gwar! wrote:Because falling back does not let you disembark from vehicles. It's the same situation as the PlasmaGunner causing the unit to fall back is it not?

From memory anyway, am at work and don't have the rules to hand

Well my point of view is that the rules are clear ...

if a unit loose 25% of its models then it takes a morral test.
if it fails it must move 2D6" towards their board edge
though not clearly marked as movement embarking and disembarking are done in the movement phase and models doing count as moving. Now you can argue that it isn't movment and the game stops working or you can say "hay this is games work shop" and count it as moving and the game keeps working.

Hulksmash wrote:The thing is since it only effects a single model in the outflanking unit how are you losing 25%? What unit can outflank in a transport and be 4 models or less? Probably why there is no answer for this since I'm pretty sure it can't happen.

An elite inquisitor ally with 3 vet warriors in a vendetta/valk.

@imweasel

you win. that's one of the only unit I can think of it working on

Also 3 SM scout bikers

scout bikers in transports? awesome!

you win. that's one of the only unit I can think of it working on

3-4 Honour guard in a razorback...

I don't see why a unit falling back isn't forced to disembark? I'm with Tri the unit has to take a test and if it fails it falls back and disembarking i sthe first part of that fallback. I'd say they still move 2d6" as that move ignores previous movement.

Scout Bikers wouldn't be in a transport...

insaniak wrote:Scout Bikers wouldn't be in a transport...

unless we're playing apoclipse ... then a thunder hawk could have 3 units of 3 scout bike ...each unit taking a test as they arrive.

but any way normally only infantry can ride in transports

FlingitNow wrote:I don't see why a unit falling back isn't forced to disembark? I'm with Tri the unit has to take a test and if it fails it falls back and disembarking i sthe first part of that fallback. I'd say they still move 2d6" as that move ignores previous movement.

I thought the rules state the only time you can disembark outside of the movement phase is if the vehicle is destroyed?

Did I miss something?

I thought the rules state the only time you can disembark outside of the movement phase is if the vehicle is destroyed?

Where? I haven't seen that rule. the rules do not specifically state that you can disembark at other times but it doesn't limit it to those 2 examples. Fall back is an involuntary move an dfollows all the normal movement rules/restrictions (with exceptions) disembarking is part of that. I don't see anything disallowing it.

FlingitNow wrote:I don't see anything disallowing it.

I don't see anything disallowing the use of a hammer against your fingers whenever I fail a save either.

It doesn't say I can't is not how 40k works. The fall back rules would have to specifically say they are permitted to disembark. Otherwise, they may not.

imweasel wrote:

FlingitNow wrote:I don't see why a unit falling back isn't forced to disembark? I'm with Tri the unit has to take a test and if it fails it falls back and disembarking i sthe first part of that fallback. I'd say they still move 2d6" as that move ignores previous movement.

I thought the rules state the only time you can disembark outside of the movement phase is if the vehicle is destroyed?

Did I miss something?

Two things ... 1) this is happening in the movement phase so it doesn't matter 2)modes may only voluntarily embark/diebark in the movemnt phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:

FlingitNow wrote:I don't see anything disallowing it.

I don't see anything disallowing the use of a hammer against your fingers whenever I fail a save either.

It doesn't say I can't is not how 40k works. The fall back rules would have to specifically say they are permitted to disembark. Otherwise, they may not.

That one argument however it breaks the game as we have aunit falling back while unable to disembark. If they can disembark then game keeps working.

I don't see anything disallowing the use of a hammer against your fingers whenever I fail a save either.

It doesn't say I can't is not how 40k works. The fall back rules would have to specifically say they are permitted to disembark. Otherwise, they may not.

Yes but the fallback move is a move so all normal movement rules are assumed to apply and hence disembarking is allowed (if normally allowed, i.e. the vehicle hasn't moved flatout or isn't surounded by enemies).

I really don't see why the fallback section should be required to list EVERY type of movement that is allowed and have the entire movement section repeated? It is movement all the normal movement rules apply except those that it specifies are different.

Gwar I want to enshrine the finger comment, lolz.

Rulewise however, no fall back really IS different from regular moves.

2 d6 anyone v. 6?

Also, the ACT of embarking and disembarking isn't ... 'technically' a move anyways. If you'll recall the rules brouha ha ha about vehicles being surrounded on all sides but units inside being able to 'deploy' at the 2" line-- skipping OVER the intervening models-- the most that could be linked between movement and reployment was difficult terrain test. A tenuous link at best, and not unlike running versus movement.

This really is a rule breaker with the morale test, but I think it's been a long time in coming what with plasma and other things from on back.