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Here's a news article talking about China getting all militant acting. It seems like this is the story for China every time things seem a bit hard in the West. What do you guys think?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35167044/ns/world_news-washington_post/

They have been doing that to Taiwan for the last 50 years since world war 2 ended

This is normal for the CCP, they view Taiwan as a renegade province and get snappish when ever we sell them weapons. Plus with China becoming more powerful, they believe (with reason) they can be more aggressive (at least in their talks and possible economic sanctions or other actions) with the US and Europe due to our massive trade dependency with China.

The trade dependency goes both ways, at least for now. That said, we should go ahead with this move, as it will drive home that codependency. Of course, China can always do injury to their people in the interests of national security, the various democracies of the world cannot.

dogma wrote:The trade dependency goes both ways, at least for now. That said, we should go ahead with this move, as it will drive home that codependency. Of course, China can always do injury to their people in the interests of national security, the various democracies of the world cannot.

The part about the trade dependency is true, but I think China with is own internal market would be able to surive better than Americans who discovered that they could not longer get cheap stuff at walmart. (I hate that place and refuse to shop there).
Even so will be interesting to see is how far they are willing to push it as for as possible sanctions, and if they start some anti American protests like they did when we bombed their embassy in Bosnia.
As for matters of national security, to me and my experience with studying China and living there it is more about the survival of the CCP and its hierarchy than the people of China.

guardpiper wrote:The part about the trade dependency is true, but I think China with is own internal market would be able to surive better than Americans who discovered that they could not longer get cheap stuff at walmart. (I hate that place and refuse to shop there).
Even so will be interesting to see is how far they are willing to push it as for as possible sanctions, and if they start some anti American protests like they did when we bombed their embassy in Bosnia.
As for matters of national security, to me and my experience with studying China and living there it is more about the survival of the CCP and its hierarchy than the people of China.

Does China have a significant internal market yet? I thought their consumer base was still extremely small.

As for Walmart... Sam Walton is spinning in his grave.

The nature of the Chinese government is itself a significant buffer against hardship. Social turmoil is highly unlikely to debilitate the state in that case.

That said, our national security priority should be paying down our debt to China, but that's another (emotionally charged) thread.

dogma wrote:That said, our national security priority should be paying down our debt to China, but that's another (emotionally charged) thread.

+1

So long as the leadership is okay the populace can rot. Thousands die yearly for the Chinese 'greater good', its nothing new.

Gornall wrote:

guardpiper wrote:The part about the trade dependency is true, but I think China with is own internal market would be able to surive better than Americans who discovered that they could not longer get cheap stuff at walmart. (I hate that place and refuse to shop there).
Even so will be interesting to see is how far they are willing to push it as for as possible sanctions, and if they start some anti American protests like they did when we bombed their embassy in Bosnia.
As for matters of national security, to me and my experience with studying China and living there it is more about the survival of the CCP and its hierarchy than the people of China.

Does China have a significant internal market yet? I thought their consumer base was still extremely small.

As for Walmart... Sam Walton is spinning in his grave.

@ Gornall, the internal market is starting to grow as the middle class is expanding. Granted it is not as large as the American market, but CCP is having Chinese business pay more attention to the internal market as it is growing. 1.3 or 1.4 billion people even if they are poor compared to Americans or Europeans can still buy a lot of stuff.

@ Dogma I agree wholeheartedly that we need to pay off our debt to the Chinese and it needs to be a priority.

Mr. Burning wrote:So long as the leadership is okay the populace can rot. Thousands die yearly for the Chinese 'greater good', its nothing new.

That's why my preferred Greater Good involves Pulse Rifles and Battlesuits

Strictly speaking, thousands die every year in every country (of sufficient size) for the greater good. That's what national administration is about.

Many people die in America die as a result of drunken drivers, yet we do not ban cars because they serve the greater good of personal mobility.

Similarly, we do not ban alcohol as it serves the greater good of allowing me to be sauced 6-7 hours a day.

Does the Chinese internal market get to buy all the fine Chinese produced things that kill or poison people in the western countries?

Yes, see the milk scandal.

The UK was arrogant when it was a genuine world power, back when it was the British Empire.

America is arrogant now that it it the American Trade Empire.

The Soviet Union was arrogant when it was a military superpower.

The Romans were arrogant when they were the largest political and military union in recorded history.

The French are always arrogant, as they always think they are more important than they really are.

China, like all of those cases, have a history of a superiority complex that allows them to feel they can dictate the way the world should work, going back through their history of being genuine power-houses on the world stage through most of their history, and returning to such a state now. China is likely to the most powerful nation in the world over the course of the next century, and I fear the changes they will bring to the rest of the world.

I recommend making friends with as many Indian people as possible. Or, failing that, moving to Brazil. Its always a good idea to move to Brazil.